Beat up as a child and you just don't care?

Taiwan Parenting
21

pedophilia’s everywhere too. So is drunk driving, swinging, adultery, cigarrete smoking, shoplifting, bulemia and Scientology, but I don’t intend to expose her to any of those either “so she will learn to deal with them.” if I raise her well I expect she’ll learn the difference between right and wrong without me demonstrating bad behavior for her.

wasn’t our toy gun. Was nanny’s grandsons. Like my parents, I won’t give her a gun (but if she really craves one at some point, which seems unlikely now, that would be fine). But, no, I don’t believe one is suppose to point a gun in the face of your friend or family.

Those are my beliefs. That’s how I’m raising girl. Others are free to raise theirs differently.

22

MT, you know I know you and (in case I never said so – not that I ever would, because of course I’m not gay, although firmly in touch with my feminine side, not that that has anything whatsoever to do with gayness) I’m absolutely certain that a better father a kid could not wish for. And sure, people raise their kids as they see fit. IrishStu has been known to raise a hand, as has Fox. As has myself. On occasion. For certain infractions. There is nothing wrong with that at all, in my opinion. And does us make us worse fathers than you? I beg to differ. I’m really, really glad that you’re able to do your parenting “by the book” as it were. Maybe I AM a lesser dad than you? I don’t know. Am I traumatizing my baby? Like HELL!
Divea, you really, in my opinion, shouldn’t always immediately equate a smack with rampant naked people or whatever. God knows, MY kid hasn’t seen any naked people except for me doing my famous “dick dance,” which is definitely going to stand him in good stead in terms of facial muscle development.
He knows, thanks to me, a good laugh when he sees it.
Far as I’m concerned, EVERY single person weighing in on this thread is a fine, fine person, and I’m almost 65% percent certain that none of them would abuse their kids or sell them into bondage or sexual servitute or whatever (although… what exactly IS the going rate for a healthy and robust toddler these days? Its a long time since I looked at eBay.)

23

When I lived in Thailand you could buy a child at the market for 8000 baht. Most were bought as domestic servants.

Violence is everywhere. Sport, war, streets, school, work (farming) how to deal with it should be apart of every person’s education and of course it is. I don’t know if avoiding it is very helpful. It seems to me avoiding violence begets violence.

24

Sounds like my childhood, to a T. Our metal work teacher used a cricket bat on our rear ends though. My accounting teacher, in her early 100’s or thereabouts, knocked me flying off my chair when I wasn’t paying attention - she had a lot of power for a centurian. Our primary school headmaster had a glass cabinet with canes of varying thickness and length - each was colour coded, methinks he was a bit sadistic.

As for cheeky kids on public transport, I don’t get that much, but if it happens I take them down a peg or two verbally - works every time.[/quote]

My formative education resembles much of what you two chaps mention. I spent 6 glorious years in a Scottish boarding school, where most of my Masters were straight outta 'The Wall". Those malicious perverted swine seemed to take great pleasure in trying to mold us into some unfathomable fodder. I, being of a blackest of ginger, a social misfit, and a colonial to boot, was selected for special treatment. I’ll never forget the evil look on their mugs, after they’d finished their caning, and after my trousers were where they should have been. Yet, I rose above it, even the trespasses of the prefects. Eventually, I became one myself. But I was a benevolent dictator, I protected and nourished those under me, making sure that every weakness hidden by the kids was not so easily exposed. I was so good as guile and deception that I even made Head Boy.
Imagine that! The shock must have shaken those Calvinists to their very core! My last and final year was more or less a series of vendettas, they as sure as shite got theirs, mostly in the form of severe vandalism against certain Master’s vehicles, or their houses. A true ginger never forgets, or forgives.

As for relatives, my Dad hit me once with a belt on the palm, for something I did deserve. He never had to do it again. My uncle once tried to threaten me with a bat, but he was a drunken fool, and I disarmed him pretty smartish, likesay.

Such, such were the daze!
I have never hit my own kids, and I never will, the shock of recognition is too much in the forefront. I save my physical wrath for matters of self-defence vs the mindless scum of the earth , the memories kick in, let loose a war cry, and the rest is pure physics. I’m not much of a fighter, but I know how to maintain a perimeter.
Huzzah!

25

What??? Fox said, we should teach them to deal with violence coz its everywhere, so I said we can’t make them deal with all the shit happening around them and so did MT.

I don’t think hitting kids is OKAY. What is your problem with that??? You wanna go hit your son, fine!!

Seriously, where did I insinuate that Forumosans will do that? :hand:

Never you mind guys, keep your slaps stiff and make sure they sting.

EDIt. Sandman that callousness of asking how much a child costs just to make a pointless point :thumbsdown:

26

Divea, are you a daydream believer?

27

What is that supposed to mean?

28

Yes it’s obvious that civil society is on a sort of continuum in terms of what kinds of violence are allowed to be meted out to whom. The Romans were allowed to hit their slaves; it was illegal to kill a slave, but killing was acceptable in gladiator fights and animal hunts.

Things didn’t change that much for a lot of centuries. But masters were stopped from beating their slaves before slavery was outlawed; men can no longer beat their wives. Kids are the only ones left that can be legally hit, and even that is now illegal in a number of countries.

If I’m wrong, and there are clear formative reasons for hitting kids, why is it that the people on f.com who reserve the right to hit their own children are so up in arms about teachers doing it? Teachers teach them too.

It boils down to ownership. Parents who hit but won’t let teachers hit are asserting the same sort of ownership over their child as a master over his slave, seems to me.

Why was this resurrected? Divea, you should know that MT and I have already established that there is no room on f.com for what back in middle class UK for example is pretty much the mainstream position.

29

What is that supposed to mean?[/quote]
It means that one shouldn’t lecture other parents on how they choose to raise their children. It’s got nothing to do with us. To each, thank
the powers that be, their own. Everything else is a subjective imposition.
Let me give you an example. Once, in a Taiwan Carrefour, several years ago, I raised my voice, and threatened violence unto my son, who was running amok the way my Taiwanese outlaws seem carefree to let him do. I reeled him in, gave him a good loud talking to, and lo, and behold, some dumb Canucklehead came by and had the gall to utter some negative comments about my choice of action. My first instinct of course was to bash the stupid ill-bred Canuck, but of course that would not be setting a very good example to my son. I then sent my son off on an egg searching mission, found the offensive Canuck in where else the booze isle, and knocked him for six.
The point is, context, and situational awareness is everything, when it comes to parenting, and most especially criticism of same. If one is going to critique someone’s parenting, unless there are obvious signs of abuse, it’s more or less backseat parenting. Which should not be tolerated by any honourable person, in any situation.

By the way, a daydream believer is a sanctimonious believer in concepts as opposed to actual practice.

30

[quote=“smithsgj”]
If I’m wrong, and there are clear formative reasons for hitting kids, why is it that the people on f.com who reserve the right to hit their own children are so up in arms about teachers doing it? Teachers teach them too.[/quote]
Teachers in this country are babysitters.

:noway: Yeah, keep up that false analogy, if it serves your purpose.

You have established nothing except your own peculiar illusion.

31

What is that supposed to mean?[/quote]
It means that one shouldn’t lecture other parents on how they choose to raise their children. It’s got nothing to do with us. To each, thank
the powers that be, their own. Everything else is a subjective imposition.
.[/quote]

yep i agree

32

What is that supposed to mean?[/quote]
It means that one shouldn’t lecture other parents on how they choose to raise their children. It’s got nothing to do with us. To each, thank
the powers that be, their own. Everything else is a subjective imposition.
Let me give you an example. Once, in a Taiwan Carrefour, several years ago, I raised my voice, and threatened violence unto my son, who was running amok the way my Taiwanese outlaws seem carefree to let him do. I reeled him in, gave him a good loud talking to, and lo, and behold, some dumb Canucklehead came by and had the gall to utter some negative comments about my choice of action. My first instinct of course was to bash the stupid ill-bred Canuck, but of course that would not be setting a very good example to my son. I then sent my son off on an egg searching mission, found the offensive Canuck in where else the booze isle, and knocked him for six.
The point is, context, and situational awareness is everything, when it comes to parenting, and most especially criticism of same. If one is going to critique someone’s parenting, unless there are obvious signs of abuse, it’s more or less backseat parenting. Which should not be tolerated by any honourable person, in any situation.

By the way, a daydream believer is a sanctimonious believer in concepts as opposed to actual practice.[/quote]

Excuse me??? What part of ‘you want to hit your child, fine’ do you not understand?? Backseat parenting??? It is an OPINION. My opinion. I didn’t force anyone to divulge the status of beatings in their own home. It is a thread and I’ll reply to it as I wish.

What is Sanctimonious about not hitting a child??? It is the norm. I don’t even kick dogs or cats, does that make me a daydream believer?? No Gingerman, you have me all wrong. I absolutely enjoy being with my children and they really can do no wrong. Maybe the Husband and I are darned lucky to have kids that never merit a beating. Touch wood.

33

I have spanked my boy on the butt on rare occasions. I don’t think it traumatized him.

All this political correctness seems to make things turn for the worse. Kids are way worse now than they were when we were kids. There are other factors, I’m sure. Extremely violent video games, blockbusters and the internet come to mind. But parenting is the biggest influence by a big margin, I think.

Contemporary parenting replaces a good inconsequential smack on the ass with mental torture. It’s not desirable.

34

Since humans essentially love violence (cartoons to sport to embedded war reporters). We have developed some very sophisticated understandings of it as well, honor, bravery, courage, dignity, even non-violence strategies are based purely on our understanding of violence. By my reckoning, exposure to violence in a love-filled environment builds inner strength.

35

Yes that is correct I agree entirely

36

Grange Hill mate

Teacher versus kid and teacher versus teacher

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ny46fm5JfY&NR=1

37

[quote=“Mother Theresa”]Ok, well I wasn’t beat up as a child and I’m thankful for that. I believe corporal punishment is wrong and harmful, so I choose not to inflict it on my [strike]wife[/strike] child. I recognize that others will say (have said) they know it’s not harmful cuz it didn’t hurt them, but I believe they’re mistaken. No sense in arguing about it, though, as neither they nor I will change our views.

But they’re wrong and I’m right. :raspberry:[/quote]
Ditto, you’re damaged enough if you think getting beat up as a kid by people bigger than you teaches you anything. My parents spanked me a couple times, never severely, and that did the trick. I was a very good kid and if I were actually beaten in school I’m sure I would’ve ended up a lot more rebellious and more of an asshole. I also think that Fox’s mentioning of prefects having plebs do their homework speaks worlds about how broken those education systems are that allow the battering of children. To use violent measures as discipline is never necessary, there are always better ways involving shame, extra workloads, parental involvement, etc., but boarding schools used to enjoy the violent methods far too much.

38

The sanctimonious use, of “fine”

Of course it is an opinion. And of course it is a thread, and of course it is your right to reply as you wish. As much as it is MY right to to reply to your reply as I so wish. What part of THAT do you not comprehend?

No, it’s not. You are daydreaming again. Violence against children is a tangible, real-time issue.

Don’t be silly. Of course there are dogs that deserve to be kicked. Not cats, though, unless they are maurading.

[quote]I absolutely enjoy being with my children and they really can do no wrong. [/quote] I enjoy my kids as well , as do most responsible parents. Can do no wrong? Wait until their peers get a grip on their instincts!

If you read my prior post correctly, then you would know that neither have mine. Tone of voice, and the threat of further confrontation are enough to make them toe the line.

All I am saying, is that that one shouldn’t judge another until you have walked a mile in their moccasins, especially other parents. With the caveat, of course, of obvious brutality against the innocents. That being kids that have not been schooled on the proper way to behave.
Subjective, I well realize, but as I’m sure you realize, there are directions, and there are distractions, for formative minds. I do not use violence in my home, or accept it from teachers, but I do insist upon a chain of command.
There is a difference.

39

[quote]here are always better ways involving shame, extra workloads, parental involvement, etc., but boarding schools used to enjoy the violent methods far too much.
[/quote]

Just for the record, I never said anything about schools and corporal punishment. Shame and boredom? That’s just cruel. Also I have almost never spanked my kids -three or four times max on the back of the hand or a quick one on the butt. However, the one thing I stress above everything else is there is no shame in this. It is just what goes around comes around, instant karma style. That’s what I’m communicating. Take it, respect it, and laugh-it-off.

40

Aw, shucks, thanks sandy. :blush: Big sloppy wet kiss for you at the next happy hour (not from me, from irishstu). I’m not a perfect parent (I made that post last night on my iPhone when I was supposed to be paying attention during my daughter’s piano class), but I try my best. I know we all try our best. And I wasn’t being critical of others at all. I wasn’t saying those who beat their kids are bad people or bad parents. In fact, I expressly stated my belief that the fact some hit their kids doesn’t necessarily make them bad people.

BUT, the OP asked for opinions. The first few people concurred with his apparent opinion that “I got beaten all the time as a kid and it didn’t hurt me, so I see no harm done.” My feelings were very different. At first I thought I would keep my mouth shut and not disrupt the sequential concurrences by stating a differing view. But then I stuck my toes in the water with a single sentence and the OP asked for elaboration. So, what the hell, I stated my view, which is pretty much the primary purpose of this forum.

I wasn’t judging or condemning others; just stating MY belief that it’s wrong to hit your kids, it is harmful, it should be possible to raise them well without hitting them, and that’s why I’m trying to do that with my child.

Actually, I think there’s some truth to smithsg’s comment about hitting being related to ownership. At least it connotes superiority. What gives me the right to hit my child? She’s a human being the same as me, the same as my wife, the same as my neighbor. I wouldn’t hit my wife or my neighbor; why should I have any more right to hit her? I know I CAN hit her, because I’m bigger and more powerful. And I CAN justify it that I’m her parent and it’s my duty to raise her properly and discipline her when needed (“for her own good” – she may not see it now, but some day she will). But I don’t see it that way. I don’t feel I have a right to hit her. To do so would merely be a loss of control and abuse of power on my part.

In fact, i don’t need to hit her, because she’s just a small child, who looks up to and respects and emulates me and constantly wants to please me, so if I hit her I’m sure she would cry, not from physical pain so much as from shock and disappointment that her father could be so cruel, so horrible, could be such a terrible man.

As I said, I’m not judging anyone else; just telling how I feel about my relationship with my daughter.

I don’t feel superior to her at all. I feel like we’re buddies, going through life’s experiences together (except that so many things are new for her, but I’ve done them before and already have knowledge and experience about them). As her buddy with more experience, I will lead her and guide her and tell her firmly when she’s wrong, and I know she will strive hard to follow my wishes because she wants to please me. But I have no more right to hit her than I do to hit my wife. And, as I’ve said, I strongly believe I don’t need to hit her, because she’s already learning to be a good, well-behaved person just fine without beatings – so I would hate to disrupt that good positive senior buddy-junior buddy relationship by introducing terror tactics and making her fear me.

That’s MY beliefs and MY experience. Others are entitled to have their own beliefs and experiences.