Being Deported! And there's no good reason why!?!

Work Teaching English in Taiwan
1

So I get a Tourist Visa, do a demo for a school to get hired (and demo’s are now illegal, and they can deport you if they find you in a class with students when you don’t have a work permit) I get hired, and they apply to get me a work visa. When the ARC is being processed, government officials come into my school and one takes my picture with her phone camera while I was in class teaching. I took all the steps that were told, and did everything right. But because I didn’t have my arc in my hand yet, they are going to fine the school 120 000 - 750 000 and deport me. The school called whichever government acency the same day, and they said my arc was approved and that I could work, so why am I being deported???

This government is seriously twisted. When Chen Shuei Bien opened his big mouth, and the economy started slipping, thier solution is to go to the rich buxibans and crack down on all the foreign workers, to generate money. Meanwhile, I have to say goodbye to the girl I’ve been living with for the last year and a half, my band I just started, basically my life is over and I have to start again. :loco:

I know many people here with no degrees, who work while having student visas (and still don’t know much chinese) and they can still stay, while i took all the proper steps, but I’m the one being deported. The Government here does not care about white people, they just use them, and abuse them, and deport them at their own whim to suit thier own purposes.

This has left a bad taste in my mouth about Taiwan, and if anyone asks me anything about Taiwan, I know my opinion is not going to be a positive one.

2

Welcome to Taiwan.
Thank you for playing.
Have a safe trip home.

And yes, this is how it is here. :runaway:

3

Another one? Wow!

First up, hortmonger, get complaining loudly. Hopefully there will be someone after me that can direct you better to whom and where.

But dang, what is going on with all these deportations? Could it just be that competition between the schools is so tight that they’re snitching on each other?

From what I recall, snitching rival buxibans or, more frequently, recently estranged psycho-xiaojies were the sole deportation triggers.

HG

4

Bummer. It is standard practice for people awaiting their work permits and ARC to begin work. It is so stupid that they did this to you, given that you had every intention of following accepted procedure and being legit. Contact your country’s economic mission here. See if they can help at all.

5

[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]Another one? Wow!

First up, hortmonger, get complaining loudly. Hopefully there will be someone after me that can direct you better to whom and where.

But dang, what is going on with all these deportations? Could it just be that competition between the schools is so tight that they’re snitching on each other?

From what I recall, snitching rival buxibans or, more frequently, recently estranged psycho-xiaojies were the sole deportation triggers.

HG[/quote]

Why should he complain loudly, by his own admission he was working illegally, he was on a tourist visa , working whilst they were processing his arc application.

He got found out, such is life and is now paying the price for his folly.

6

It may be ‘standard practice’ by the schools but it may also be illegal. I’ve been hearing lots of sad stories recently of people being deported on dubious grounds or being hassled when they visit the foreign affairs police.

7

[quote=“Traveller”][quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]Another one? Wow!

First up, hortmonger, get complaining loudly. Hopefully there will be someone after me that can direct you better to whom and where.

But dang, what is going on with all these deportations? Could it just be that competition between the schools is so tight that they’re snitching on each other?

From what I recall, snitching rival buxibans or, more frequently, recently estranged psycho-xiaojies were the sole deportation triggers.

HG[/quote]

Why should he complain loudly, by his own admission he was working illegally, he was on a tourist visa , working whilst they were processing his arc application.

He got found out, such is life and is now paying the price for his folly.[/quote]

Only problem is that, in English the teaching, it is common proceedure for new hires to begin working while waiting for their work permits. It has been an accepted practice for quite a while. I’ve never heard of anyone being deported under these circumstances.

8

If you work before your school has been approved to employ you (i.e. issued a work permit) you are working illegally and subject to deportation.

Waiting for an ARC may be a grey area. I’d recommend caution though.

9

[quote=“Toasty”][quote=“Traveller”][quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]Another one? Wow!

First up, hortmonger, get complaining loudly. Hopefully there will be someone after me that can direct you better to whom and where.

But dang, what is going on with all these deportations? Could it just be that competition between the schools is so tight that they’re snitching on each other?

From what I recall, snitching rival buxibans or, more frequently, recently estranged psycho-xiaojies were the sole deportation triggers.

HG[/quote]

Why should he complain loudly, by his own admission he was working illegally, he was on a tourist visa , working whilst they were processing his arc application.

He got found out, such is life and is now paying the price for his folly.[/quote]

Only problem is that, in English the teaching, it is common proceedure for new hires to begin working while waiting for their work permits. It has been an accepted practice for quite a while. I’ve never heard of anyone being deported under these circumstances.[/quote]

I appreciate that it may well be an accepted and common practice, but it leaves the teacher in the unenviable position as the OP has just found out, it is still a breach of visa and therefore deportable.

I am not without sympathy for the OP, but complaining about being kicked out for working illegally, when he was working illegally seems somewhat of a mute point.

10

My current company (not a bushiban) told me to stay at home until I had my work permit and ARC in hand, but I think this is very much the exception. Back when I was teaching I don’t remember ever having come across a school that didn’t expect you to work while your ARC application was underway. The fact is that the daft work regulations make it very difficult to do things legally 100% of the time - there is no common sense.

I feel a great deal of sympathy for the OP as he did things no differently from many teachers here, but he got picked on.

11

I think an important point that those who are not English teachers and/ or are not subject to work permit sponsorship need to consider is that the teacher very seldom has any option but to begin working before documents are received. The school demands it and, given that it can take months to get all documents done, the teacher is economically compelled to comply. It is not decent for the government to target teachers in this grey area. There is no intent to break the law at all and few options available to avoid doing so. I strongly disagree with the sentiment that OP (if the info he gave is correct) brought this deportation upon himself. He was following standard procedure in the industry here.

12

What amazes me with all these deportations is that this is Taiwan, not the US or UK, yet here we all are, desperate to stay. It is almost impossible to get deported from the UK. Even the Afghan guys who hijacked an airline and had it fly to the UK managed to get a visa!! :astonished: What is it with Taiwan besides them enjoying pissing us about. Having said that, working before the ARC is in hand so to speak is always dodgy, especially if someone has it in for you!

13

With the new ability to levy huge fines, I think we can expect waaaay more of this kind of story to emerge. I am betting that a new position has been created at the CLA that entails following up on the occasional (or not so occasional) work permit application to do a drop in and see if the applicant is indeed on the premises. Watch out folks. Taiwan is going for the gold.

14

Well, I don’t consider myself an total imbecile. I lived in Taiwan for awhile, pottered around these boards awhile too, but I had no inkling the standard practice of working while awaiting processing of documents was in anyway illegal. Seriously. Until this thread if I had returned to take up an offer in Taiwan I would have worked the minute I got there.

I can’t see why there is any distinction at all between office Johnny and teacher, except it seems that office Johhny’s aren’t being tossed out . . yet. My work permits for ofifice wankery took for ever. I worked while I waited for them though.

Agree. It is insane . . . sounds to me like there is an incredible need to form a foreign workers union in cohoots with our SE Asian bretheren and announce a general strike. Oh that’s right, they’d beat us all to a pulp and deport us. Ummm . . . any other ideas?

HG

15

It’s not a grey area. Working without your ARC in hand is strictly illegal and you can indeed be deported for it. The heavier fines being levied on the schools are an attempt to deter them from letting teachers work while they’re illegal.
Of course, you’d think it wouldn’t be so terribly difficult for the government to print out some big posters to stick up in visa offices and FAP offices warning newly arrived teachers about the dangers, but then, this is the Taiwan government we’re talking about. You can’t expect them to suddenly change completely and do something rational, inexpensive and helpful.

16

I agree with you, but my comment was more meant for people who are not affected by this type of action, ie those who are married to locals and, as such, never need worry about such matters as the OP is experiencing. Perhaps different industries sponsor their workers in different ways as well, though you show that they often do not. My main point stands , though: OP was not doing anything that isn’t defacto standard procedure for new hired teachers in Taiwan. The bureaucracy creates a condition in which teachers, through no fault or ill intent of their own, end up working technically illegally for the first little while of their employment here. I do not believe that government here is not fully of this grey area it’s regulations have created and I think it indecent for them to go after somebody in bureaucratic limbo who has every intention of doing things the right way. Since it is bureaucracy in Taiwan that creates this condition, I blame Taiwan and not the OP for the mess he’s in.

17

[quote=“sandman”]It’s not a grey area. Working without your ARC in hand is strictly illegal and you can indeed be deported for it. The heavier fines being levied on the schools are an attempt to deter them from letting teachers work while they’re illegal.
Of course, you’d think it wouldn’t be so terribly difficult for the government to print out some big posters to stick up in visa offices and FAP offices warning newly arrived teachers about the dangers, but then, this is the Taiwan government we’re talking about. You can’t expect them to suddenly change completely and do something rational, inexpensive and helpful.[/quote]

Sound point, but even if every new teacher was made fully aware of the law, the schools would still expect them to work and many teachers would still feel compelled to do it.

School: Work or we find someone else that will!
Teacher: Erm…

Stupid laws + couldn’t-give-a-shit schools = foreign teachers caught between a rock and a hard place.

18

This is a response not just to toasty’s posty, but he has all the elements in it, so I only quoted his:

I don’t think the government gives a flying crap about the prospective teacher’s finances.

How can the school demand a teacher to work illegally? The teacher can say no, not until the ARC is approved and delivered. And if it takes a school MONTHS to do the paperwork, find a new school. It should take about 3-4 weeks.

It cannot be made any clearer: if you are working before the ARC is in your hand, you are working illegally. The school, if they want you, should set you up with private classes outside of the school (Global Village used to do this) to give the teacher some income, or find privates to teach. It’s not that hard. Anything done on school grounds is fair game for the FA police.

I don’t follow that there is no intent to break the law though by the teacher (or the school for that matter) . There is, if the guy shows up to work knowing that he has no ARC.

Ask Honour about the “standard procedure in the industry.” There is none. The fact that many schools do have illegal teachers working for them, either without offerring an ARC or having the teachers work before and ARC if ready is a) shifty or b) just bad planning. The school in the OP’s case is equally to blame for the deportation IMHO.

To avoid this: cover your ass. Plan your job hunting better so that you’re not totally penniless when you switch or arrive (you can find a job overseas and come to Taiwan with a VISA in your passport and pick up the ARC immediately). The days of interview and being hired on the same day are ALMOST gone (said to cover my ass) and even if it is possible it’s STILL illegal. Get a new job then go to the Philipines for 3-4 weeks while the paperwork goes through; pick up the Resident Visa in Manila and get your ARC the day you get back. Badaboom badabing.

People do actually do this.

On the side, it kind of irks me that people on these forums complain all the time about the police and government not doing their jobs. Here is a case of someone actually doing his/her job, and they get slammed for it, because “everyone is doing it” or because the timing was sadly ironic.

To the OP: this doesn’t make your situation any less crappy, and I’m truly sorry for you that they booted you out. Name the school. Because they deserve the bad press IMHO. Then they might not “take the chance because what are the odds of getting caught” and totally screw someone over the next time.

Peace
jdsmith

19

Simple, really. They tell you they need you next week. If you don’t show, they go on to the next applicant. You have to agree to employment in order to get the process underway. You can’t do that with most places who are looking for a teacher ASAP. You end up in a conundrum where you want to be legal, but can’t without agreeing to work when the school wants you to (and thus being illegal for a while). I can’t believe that this is news to anyone here on this forum. It’s how the majority of teachers are hired, as a matter of fact.

The system here creates a situation where many teachers are compelled to work illegally. I don’t think it’s right for the government to target these people for deportation and I definitely don’t agree that it is Taiwan’s officials doing their jobs efficiently when this happens. The government needs to take a pragmatic approach to this and realise the realities of this industry. They need to grant a grace period during the applicaton process wherein a teacher can work legally while their application is being processed. Continuation of legal employment would hinge on approval for their work permit. Their failure to do this leaves scads of decent people exposed to having their lives and livelihoods in Taiwan ruined for no good reason at all, IMHO.

Sorry, I don’t agree that the government is even slightly in the right in this case of deportation.

20

Government doesn’t allow people to work without the required documentation. I expect this is standard pretty much everywhere. School owners thumb their noses at the government and start teachers working illegally. And this is the fault of the government? I don’t get it.
You surely don’t expect the government to come up with a law that says “people on a tourist visa can’t work – except for sometimes.”

I think it’s entirely the schools that are to blame. That and the naivete of some newly arrived teachers who I suppose simply trust the school that “it’ll be OK” without checking for themselves. I mean come on – how many times have you seen folk complain on here about some legal problem with the “but I didn’t know” spiel?