Being threatened with 妨害家庭罪. No adultery

I know about the adultery law in Taiwan and this is not about adultery. I have never committed adultery and never will.

This is about 妨害家庭罪. In English, it’s translated as ‘Offense against the family’ or ‘Crime of disrupting marriage and the family’. (Adultery falls under this general set of laws).

There is a very long and complex story but I’ll make it really short to stay on topic.

I was involved with a woman who was engaged but she lied to me so I did not know about the engagement. The relationship lasted several weeks and then she secretly got married without telling and stopped contacting me. A few days after the wedding, the husband came to my work and wanted to talk to me. After the wedding, he found out about my relationship with her. He told me about their relationship and wanted to know about my relationship. I was shocked and he was shocked.

From that day on, I didn’t try to contact her, call her, message her, or see her.

A few days ago, the woman contacted me on Facebook and we started chatting. The husband apparently found out about this and read the entire conversation. After-which, he sent me a text message on my phone. He said if I talk to her in the future, he will use legal means against me. He threatened to sue me for 妨害家庭罪 using the Facebook chat records as evidence. And also threatened to cause trouble at my workplace.

Regarding the conversation, divorce was mentioned, she said they are planning to get a divorce in the future. And we also professed as our love for each other. Now, I’m pretty sure I didn’t break any laws or commit any crimes just by chatting with her on Facebook. But I just want to make sure.

I looked up ‘妨害家庭罪’ and it appears to be a series of possible violations: law995.twlady.com.tw/law0809.html

I don’t think any of the codes apply to me except #238:
第 238 條 (詐術結婚罪)
以詐術締結無效或得撤銷之婚姻,因而致婚姻無效之裁判或撤銷婚姻之裁
判確定者,處三年以下有期徒刑。

My Chinese isn’t too good so I don’t completely understand it. The way I read it is, “#238-‘Destroying a marriage’-if you cause a marriage to end, or if you cause a couple to divorce, then you are guilty. Punishable by 3 years in prison.”

Can anyone with better Chinese or better understanding of the law please clarify 妨害家庭罪 and Code 238-詐術結婚罪.

My main concern is, am I guilty of anything simply by chatting with her on FB? (a chat which she initiated). Or is this guy just bullshitting me and trying to scare me?

He said if I talk to her in the future, he will use legal means against me…

he has given you the option, so the best and safest thing to do is use all means available to stop her from getting in touch with you…

She said they are planning to get a divorce, she still has not got one, you professed your love ( in writing ) for each other while she is still legally married, you are in the wrong.

Back off and play it safe. She already seems like a trouble maker.

Smells a bit like a scam. If she goes out of her way to establish contact, I’d be real wary.

Taiwan law in general in so vaguely-worded that it can mean whatever the judge(s) choose it to mean on any given day. There is none of the semantic rigour that you would normally see in “Western” legal instruments. I was told by a professional that this is deliberate.

It seems quite likely that a facebook log COULD be used against you. As the poster above said, just have no further contact with her. She sounds like she has serious personality problems in any case, and you really don’t know if this might be some sort of elaborate scam to extort something from you (consider, for example, exactly how he got hold of that chat log). If you really want to cover your ass, you could apply for a restraining order to prevent her contacting you.

EDIT: seems like kk also thinks this is a scam. If you get a phone call from the husband, magnanimously offering to “let the matter rest” in exchange for a suitable financial consideration, you’ll know you’re being scammed and 50/50 she’s in on it. Unfortunately, it is perfectly legal to do this, and is in fact a legally-recognised method of settling genuine disputes, so don’t bother recording the phone call and going to the police. The only course of action in that case would be to call his bluff, since he can’t actually sue you unless he first divorces his wife on grounds of adultery.

I don’t think this is an option. Unless the law has changed recently, one can only get a restraining order against a spouse or other family member in Taiwan.

It might be a good idea to send an official letter to the couple (either together or to both) saying you want nothing to do with them. The post office keeps a copy of the letter and it is is all very, very official. The letter must be written in Chinese, but you can provide an English translation or any other document you wish as part of the record.

I wouldn’t mention anything about your professing your love on FB, but maybe say something that you hope she and her husband can work out their differences and live a loving life together for all eternity.

This response is going to sound a bit harsh, but I’ve only got your best interests at heart. Consider this an intervention attempt from your most bestest friend who you trust and respect. Please try to remember that while you are reading it. :bow:

So, you are involved with a woman who is a liar. Not a strong foundation to build a lasting relationship upon. I suggest you look elsewhere.

How in the world did he know your name? How did he know where you worked? She told him. Why would she do that? She obviously isn’t concerned for your well being and safety. You shouldn’t trust her for any reason. Eject Goose, EJECT!

How did he find out? Why did she tell him about the relationship she had with you? What’s her end game for divulging your personal information to him? You were extremely foolish to admit knowing the woman when the husband sought you out in your place of employment. You should have said, “Sorry. You must have the wrong man. Who? Never heard of her!”.

Are you outta your goddamned mind?!?! Bad move. Very, VERY bad move on your part. After her husband accosted you at your place of employment you STILL engaged her on Facebook? WTF? You should never have engaged her in conversation for any reason after that. She had already lied to you about having a boyfriend, fiance and the plans to get married while she was involved with you. Do not trust this woman!

How in the world do you suppose this happened? She let him read her Facebook chat! Why? Why in the world would she show intimate Facebook chat conversations with you to her husband? Why would she do that? Could she possibly be trying to infuriate him into agreeing to a divorce by using you as her tool? Could she be in on a scam with her “husband” and be trying to extort money from you?

OMG! So, he also has your mobile phone number, too. How? Why? Why has she given every bit of information about you to her husband? That’s scary and you should be concerned. If this hasn’t rung any warning bells in your head, I suggest you get your head examined.

Yep. He could do that.

Don’t you actually mean he threatened to CONTINUE to cause trouble for you at your workplace? I mean….coming to your place of employment to confront you regarding an illicit relationship, whether real or perceived, between you and his wife hasn’t caused you any trouble at your workplace? If not yet, it will.

This is none of your business and you shouldn’t be discussing her personal life with her husband for any reason.

You professed your love to a proven liar who has hung you out to dry with her husband? If you’re that stooooopid, then perhaps you both deserve each other!

Really? Where did you earn your law degree?

Make sure of what? That you are really playing with fire by messing around with someone else’s wife? That you are being played by a psycho-xiao-jie who is messing with your life for an unknown reason!

You only have one main concern? Man…you should have many main concerns and they should be sounding off like a warning bells in your head! You knew before she initiated the Facebook chat that she was married, so asserting that she initiated the contact is irrelevant. Yet, you continued to engage in Facebook chat and professing your love for her? Dumb. Dumb. Dumb. Yes, you’re guilty of being more stupid than a bag of hammers. Would you do this in your home country?

Keep it up and you’ll see that he’s going to do more than try to scare you. He’ll engage some buddies of his to take baseball bats to your knee caps and mess you up really good. Sorry about the adjective “good”, but it sounds much better than “mess you up really well”.

Conclusion: You should want nothing to do with this woman. Her track record is filled with nothing but deception. You can never have an honest, loving, trusting relationship with this woman. If you continue, then you deserve what you end up with. :no-no:

[quote=“anonymous poster”][color=#BF00FF]From that day on[/color], I didn’t try to contact her, call her, message her, or see her.

[color=#BF00FF]A few days ago[/color], the woman contacted me on Facebook …[/quote]
How many days/months/years had elapsed between these two points?

One can ALWAYS rely on the honourable Northcoast Surfer to tell it like it is. :bravo: :bravo: :bravo:

I’m curious about the time span in this. At first she’s engaged and “secretly” gets married, and now she says they’re planning to get divorced. How much time are we talking between these points?

You’re either being played for a fool or you’re a small blue creature from the wilds of Alishan.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

[quote=“cfimages”]I’m curious about the time span in this. At first she’s engaged and “secretly” gets married, and now she says they’re planning to get divorced. How much time are we talking between these points?

You’re either being played for a fool or you’re a small blue creature from the wilds of Alishan.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2[/quote]

[quote=“Nuit”][quote=“anonymous poster”][color=#BF00FF]From that day on[/color], I didn’t try to contact her, call her, message her, or see her.

[color=#BF00FF]A few days ago[/color], the woman contacted me on Facebook …[/quote]
How many days/months/years had elapsed between these two points?[/quote]

All this happened pretty recently. From the day of the wedding till now is about 3 weeks. And yes I know for a fact that they are married and the wedding did infact take place on that day.

Northcoast and other posters bring up some reasonable questions. I can see how this might seem like a scam to outside observers. Like I said earlier, there is a very long, interesting, and epic back-story to this. I’m very certain this isn’t a scam. This is a matter of a very frustrated and angry husband with a very confused and trouble-making wife. Let’s just assume that this isn’t a scam.

I think everyone is getting too caught up in the whole back-story and it’s validity. Let’s please just assume the facts of the story as stated and move on to the topic at hand, which is the threat of being sued.

The husband offered me an option and I fully intend to go along with it. Like before, I will not attempt to contact her in anyway. And if she tries to contact me again, I will not respond.

My main concern right now is if the current so called chat ‘evidence’ can really be used to incriminate me in any way. And from the responses so far, it seems like it’s possible, I could really be sued based on the current chat logs. This is a bit disconcerning.

However, can someone please better clarify the law in regards to 妨害家庭罪and section 238?

Finley mentioned that I can’t actually be sued unless they actually get a divorce. Is this true? So if they don’t divorce, then I can’t be sued?

Additionally, if they do infact get a divorce say 6 months from now, can I then be sued using the current chat logs? Would those logs still be relevant by then?

Delete your facebook account NOW

Do not login,no matter how tempted u are as u seem to have less self control than my dog.

In a few weeks, your account will be gone.

If u wanna use facebook, open a new account with a DIFFERENT email address than the first.

But this is all your fault, are you like 21?

As I understand it - and that’s probably no better than you do - there must be some tangible, objectively bad impact on the marriage. What I mean is, he would have to sue you for something. If there is no change in the marriage, insofar as an independent witness could observe it, then I don’t see how he can sue you. Similarly, if the divorce is uncontested, then it would be hard to prove that YOU were the cause of the divorce; it would have to be a contested divorce with adultery as the stated reason. I’m simply looking at things logically here, but this is Taiwan, where (as I believe housecat once said) things are what they are, even when they’re not.

Anyway, as pretty much everyone has said, keep your head down, your nose clean, your PC switched off, and your knob tucked firmly in your pants. And try to avoid PXJs in future, especially after you have conclusive proof they are PXJs. Changing your phone number, and moving, might also be a good idea. There is NO backstory that could make this sound better than it appears.

[quote=“anonymous poster”]I looked up ‘妨害家庭罪’ and it appears to be a series of possible violations: law995.twlady.com.tw/law0809.html

第 238 條 (詐術結婚罪)
以詐術締結無效或得撤銷之婚姻,因而致婚姻無效之裁判或撤銷婚姻之裁
判確定者,處三年以下有期徒刑。

My Chinese isn’t too good so I don’t completely understand it. The way I read it is, “#238-‘Destroying a marriage’-if you cause a marriage to end, or if you cause a couple to divorce, then you are guilty. Punishable by 3 years in prison.”[/quote]
You’re misinterpreting the language here. 詐術 (zha4shu4) means deception, not destroy. Here’s a rough translation.

Section 238 (Marriage by Deception)
[If one] uses deception to enter into an invalid marriage or marriage that must be revoked, and the marriage is revoked or confirmed [by a judge] to be invalid, [this is] punishable by up to three years’ imprisonment.

You say your Chinese isn’t very good, so what’s your basis for thinking that? I’d recommend having a Taiwanese friend read through the law for you and pick out the sections that might apply.

I don’t want to judge you for having feelings for this girl, but I have to say that it was very uncool of her not to tell you she was engaged. I can understand having an affair because you’re stuck in a loveless marriage, but if you’re engaged with a wedding coming up in just a few weeks, what in God’s name are you doing messing around with another guy? If she wasn’t into her fiance, she should have broken it off with him. Unless he was blackmailing her or something, that is–maybe that’s part of the backstory? In any case, leave her the f*** alone until she gets her act together and figures out what she wants.

[quote=“haokaiyang”][quote=“anonymous poster”]I looked up ‘妨害家庭罪’ and it appears to be a series of possible violations: law995.twlady.com.tw/law0809.html

第 238 條 (詐術結婚罪)
以詐術締結無效或得撤銷之婚姻,因而致婚姻無效之裁判或撤銷婚姻之裁
判確定者,處三年以下有期徒刑。

My Chinese isn’t too good so I don’t completely understand it. The way I read it is, “#238-‘Destroying a marriage’-if you cause a marriage to end, or if you cause a couple to divorce, then you are guilty. Punishable by 3 years in prison.”[/quote]
You’re misinterpreting the language here. 詐術 (zha4shu4) means deception, not destroy. Here’s a rough translation.

Section 238 (Marriage by Deception)
[If one] uses deception to enter into an invalid marriage or marriage that must be revoked, and the marriage is revoked or confirmed [by a judge] to be invalid, [this is] punishable by up to three years’ imprisonment.

[/quote]

Thanks for your very informative response. It’s very frustrating that the entire first page was filled with responses saying that I could be sued based on this code when in-fact no one even actually bothered to read or understand the specific code I was asking about. Finally a clear answer, thank you. So this code doesn’t even apply to my situation.

My Chinese is good enough to get by. The words that I don’t understand, I can look up. I carefully went through every violation regarding 妨害家庭罪 on that site and none of them applied to me.
law995.twlady.com.tw/law0809.html:
-237:Bigamy- Doesn’t apply
-238:Deception- Doesn’t apply(Thank you haokaiyang)
-239:Adultery- Doesn’t apply
-240:Regarding Minors- Doesn’t apply
-241:Abduction- Doesn’t apply
-242:Regarding abroad- Doesn’t apply
-243:Regarding 240 and 241- Doesn’t apply
-244:Regarding 240-243- Doesn’t apply
-245:Regarding previous regulations- Doesn’t apply

I also just had two Taiwanese friends read over that page for me and they agreed that none of the violations applied to me.

[quote=“haokaiyang”]
I don’t want to judge you for having feelings for this girl, but I have to say that it was very uncool of her not to tell you she was engaged. I can understand having an affair because you’re stuck in a loveless marriage, but if you’re engaged with a wedding coming up in just a few weeks, what in God’s name are you doing messing around with another guy? If she wasn’t into her fiance, she should have broken it off with him. Unless he was blackmailing her or something, that is–maybe that’s part of the backstory? In any case, leave her the f*** alone until she gets her act together and figures out what she wants.[/quote]

Again thank you, for a very reasonable and sensible response.

This girl seems really confused, doesn’t exactly know what she wants. I don’t see their marriage lasting very long. Part of the problem is that it’s a long distance relationship, Taipei and Kaohsiung, opposite ends of Taiwan. If their problems are already this severe, things will only get worse.

And lol no, blackmail is not part of the backstory, at least not that I know of.

It’s always possible that this is an ‘auspicious’ marriage that she’s gone through for the sake of her family. Still, I would let her go at this point, unless your feelings for her run extremely deep. Therea are plenty more local fish in the [strike]barrel[/strike] sea.

How did you meet this charlatan in the first place?

She has lied to you (not a white lie), so she has no respect for you. Walk away.

It feels like there is a slight element of this in her situation. She genuinely didn’t want to go through with the nuptials, but for whatever reason, still felt like she had no choice and proceeded anyways.

When the husband came to talk to me that night, even he mentioned something like “she said she didn’t want to, but it was already too late by then”.

Everyone I’ve talked to says the same thing. ‘This girl is crazy, stay the hell away from her, don’t even talk to her’, etc. When you hear stories like these, it’s very easy to sit there and play quarterback. I know I’ve been guilty of this myself. When I hear about other people’s crazy stories, it’s easy to sit here and say “you dumbass, you should just leave her ass and never talk to her again”. However, once you’re actually in the situation, things aren’t so cut and dry. When emotions are involved, dare I say when love is involved, making the correct decision isn’t always so easy. Which is why I took the bait when she contacted me on Facebook. I’m only human.

[quote=“cake”]How did you meet this charlatan in the first place?
[/quote]
I teach at an adult cram school. She was a student of mine from awhile back.

[quote=“cake”]
She has lied to you (not a white lie), so she has no respect for you. Walk away.[/quote]
This is true, she lied to me which is unacceptable.

I’m not trying to downplay her actions or justify what she did. But it feels like in her twisted mind, she may have actually thought that this was actually a white lie.

law.moj.gov.tw/eng/LawClass/LawA … e=C0000001

Article 238
A person who by fraudulent means enters into a void or voidable marriage which is declared void or is annulled by final decision shall be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than three years.