I think a Subaru would fit the bill nicely on the 'wan. And I second that many roads are either passable or impassable be you in a jeep or not. A landslide ahead means the road is cut off until the dozers get there…period.
True but even after the dozers are done its often still too rough for something with no ground clearance. I’m speaking from experience here - maybe not the Hwy 9 down the east coast, they repair that pretty well but try going on some of the smaller county roads in Chiayi, Nantou, Kaohsiung etc, even months after a typhoon. It can be very uneven and rocky.
Yes but even in a jeep it would be better in a convoy in case you need to be pulled out. And a winch would come in handy too yeah?
I think a nice Jeep would be pretty good for the wan. They are not soo good on freeways but with taiwans 100kph top limit in most places that is ok.
A Prius in the rough at Taimali where the road and bridge used to be.
If your talking best on mountain Paved Roads the 1300cc superbike powered smart car posted on another thread looks to be promising.
If your talking dirt roads maybe the new mini AWD.
Also I just realized that 3.0L taxes are the same as 2.5, 2.7 etc so that might open up some other models as a possibility.
For instance, what do you guys think of the Mitsubishi Challenger? Is it a brutal gas hog? Is it reliable?
[quote=“chrisE30bm”]If your talking best on mountain Paved Roads the 1300cc superbike powered smart car posted on another thread looks to be promising.
If your talking dirt roads maybe the new mini AWD.[/quote]
Too small. If we didnt have a son we wouldnt be looking at cars at all. I want something at least ‘crossover SUV’ size. We have a Honda City and have used Tercel, Sentra, Altis before and all of them are too small for going out and having fun with a car seat in the picture.
I’d say get a Jeep but you list fuel economy as a concern. That said I’d recommend a Jimny 4x4. Great fuel economy, small (easy to park), common to Taiwan (easy/cheap to find parts) 
And how capable are they off road?
[quote=“lovedavdubs”]I’d say get a Jeep but you list fuel economy as a concern. That said I’d recommend a Jimny 4x4. Great fuel economy, small (easy to park), common to Taiwan (easy/cheap to find parts)
And how capable are they off road?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL4moQXv_XI
[/quote]
That was the first 4WD I ever looked into in Taiwan. I even test drove one. It was gutless and the ride literally made me queasy! Not sold on the 1.3L with automatic trans - maybe if it was manual I would put up with the bumping and swaying on the freeway but naahh. I know they are beasts off road though!
Mitsubishi Challenger anyone? Jamie?
That Jimny vid, though impressive in its way, actually seems a fairly poor demonstration of off-road capability, because you can’t see whats happening, BUT it looks pretty marginal, and, from all the riverbed churning going on, it looks like it looses drive due to wheelspin.
So it needs diff locks, which’ll be a heavy chunk of change, or…twiddle brakes.
But you knew that really.
Can’t help thinking, though, that anyone who does that with a vehicle when they don’t have to has too much money, too little mechanical sympathy, or both.
Perhaps not so bad in Taiwan, though, cos it’ll probably have been flooded before anyway.
A decent offroader, yes. Heavy on fuel, tax, hard to find in good condition and expensive parts however. That’s one I wouldn’t jump at sourcing.
They are very capable vehicles and I would say better than Isuzu by far. Reliability is okay, but in the word of offroaders in fact excellent. I’m not sure anyone would seriously need one in Taiwan unless travelling very rough ground all of the time. Otherwise, a Scoob would be better overall.
A decent offroader, yes. Heavy on fuel, tax, hard to find in good condition and expensive parts however. That’s one I wouldn’t jump at sourcing.
They are very capable vehicles and I would say better than Isuzu by far. Reliability is okay, but in the word of offroaders in fact excellent. I’m not sure anyone would seriously need one in Taiwan unless travelling very rough ground all of the time. Otherwise, a Scoob would be better overall.[/quote]
The Challenger body is a pile of toothpicks compared to the Rodeo. Weak axle’d open diffs, crappy transfer case ratios, poor articulation. Compare then to the standard Dana 44 rears factory in the Isuzu. Gutless, low torque V6 in the Challenger. Spindly, vague ride even in stock form. No tailgate. Swing out spare tire carrier of poor design, pins prone to rust within 3-5 years…My 18 year old Rodeo’s are still perfect. Thin, inadequate underbelly protection. The interior leather is substandard and prone to premature wear. The Rodeo 18 year old leather…Perfect. And I beat the hell out of that truck. Constant salt water exposure in the interior, rough and tough offroading, etc. I’d like to see how many panels actually exist on the Challenger when it gets to be the Isuzu’s age.
The Challenger might be more reliable as a soccer mom SUV, but get it in the rough and it’s pretty much all show without serious modifcation. It looks the part, but it doesn’t hold a candle to the Isuzu in the dirt. The only single advantage to the Challenger is the cheaper tax bracket, which accounts for it’s ridiculous resale value. And I’m comparing a relatively new Challenger to a mid 90’s, first generation Isuzu. Try a torsion bar crank on the Challenger and see how long your CV joints/ball joints/tie rod ends/half axles last. You’ll find every lifted Challenger is forced to use a diff drop kit in the front because their bits are so poorly designed.
I know you are a mechanic, and working on an Isuzu can leave you cursing…But they are tough as hell. Mine rode better at 16 years of age with a 4 inch suspension lift drove better than any of the dozen or so stock examples (that were ten years newer) I tried a few years ago when looking to upgrade.
Challenger=Jittery pile of overrated/underachieving/ gutlass crap.
A decent offroader, yes. Heavy on fuel, tax, hard to find in good condition and expensive parts however. That’s one I wouldn’t jump at sourcing.
They are very capable vehicles and I would say better than Isuzu by far. Reliability is okay, but in the word of offroaders in fact excellent. I’m not sure anyone would seriously need one in Taiwan unless travelling very rough ground all of the time. Otherwise, a Scoob would be better overall.[/quote]
The Mitsubishi is not a very good offroading vehicle. The wheel base is too long, it is too heavy and probably has the worst 4wd of its category. Furthermore, It has major issues with the transmission has it is not strong enough for the weight of the vehicle.
Those are some of the reasons that nobody is wasting 1$ on upgrades to take them further offroad. It is a bad base to start with. Next time you see one on the street, take a look and you will see that the owners only put a snorkel, a front bumper and a shovel in the back. Those are just cosmetics.
The problem that OP has is that, he needs space, cheap tax fuel, easy on gas and go where other cars wouldn’t without causing damage to a normal car, not much to go on. You will have to make a compromise somewhere in there.
I am a Jeep and Isuzu Rodeo guy so, Here are my thought
Low taxes and fuel. Jeep Wrangler 1995 2.5l 4l manual. You can buy it for 70-80k. Spend an other 50k and you are in perfect condition. Bouncy on the highway but can take the top off and remove the doors.
Space but bigger engine and bigger taxes: Jeep Grand Cherokee 1996-7 4000cc 6l engine Auto. You can buy it from 100k-120k. Spend an other 50k and you are in perfect condition. Very comfy on the highway.
The only thing that I see fit for you at your budget would be the Nissan X-trail and the Ford Escape. Not good for offroading but will get you by in the mountains ( pot holes and rock falls)[/quote]
I think that you are perhaps overestimating what kind of offroading the average person with a 4x4 needs to do. From experience anyone with a standard 4x4 never goes rock-hopping and doesn’t ever realise whether a few inches here and there makes any difference to their vehicle’s capabilities at all. If we’re talking serious offroaders then we’re talking Jeep, RangeRover and Defender, but in my opinion for the average person who needs a 4x4 requires basic four wheel drive and a car that doesn’t need to be in the garage all the time.
From quite a few years experience fixing all types of four wheel drives in the U.K. in a rural area where mostly farmers would buy and drive them then the Mitsubishis and Toyotas were by far the most reliable. The cars with the shortest service life were Jeep and Isuzu.
Isuzu was popular with those who needed a balance between reliability and off-road capability, but as technicians we always gave a sigh of relief when a Toyota or Mitsubishi came through the workshop door.
I would say in terms of offroad capability, we used to very much like the Suzuki Vitara (Escudo), although again it was rather unreliable and would need constant attention.
I don’t want to create an argument over brand versus brand, but from the OPs requirements, he doesn’t need a serious offroader. He only needs a vehicle to help out during occasional rough roads.
[quote=“sulavaca”]
I don’t want to create an argument over brand versus brand, but from the OPs requirements, he doesn’t need a serious offroader. He only needs a vehicle to help out during occasional rough roads.[/quote]
Yeah. That pretty much sums it up. Cheapish, good residuals, space enough for car-seat + camping gear, reliability and won’t break or get stuck on some of the nastier county roads down in Morakot country. Those are my criteria.
I won’t be doing any serious offroading anyway because it’s an expensive hobby and I already have one pretty expensive hobby (electronic music).
I’ve never been a fan of soccer mom SUV’s and I wouldnt drive one back in the US (where I would be much more interested in off-roading) but for my lifestyle in Taiwan they just make more sense.
[quote=“iix23”]And that is why in the last sentence of the post I wrote quote"The only thing that I see fit for you at your budget would be the Nissan X-trail and the Ford Escape. Not good for offroading but will get you by in the mountains ( pot holes and rock falls)" end quote. 
Low taxes, ok on fuel, spacious, comfy, mostly reliable, easy and cheap to fix, cheap to purchase.[/quote]
Yep, not so keen on the Escape/Tribute but X-Trail is certainly an option if we cant find a Subaru.
I also agree with what you said about anything we can get in Taiwan being a compromise. Too bad there isnt a good selection of simple rugged 4WD’s like you see in pretty much the rest of the world other than Taiwan and North America. I’d love something with 4WD, 5-Speed and 4 cyl. diesel.
One of my night class students gave me a lift in her Mitsubishi Outlander this afternoon. Not a “serious off-roader”, I’d guess, too much overhang and too many electronic gadgets, but selectable 4WD, and she said you could select manual gearchange too, though she’d never used it (I dunno how this works but I’d guess its a manual hold-down on the autotrans, so maybe doesn’t offer any fuel economy advantage).
Seemed like it might be a reasonable compromise, though. Fairly roomy but easy enough to park. Couldn’t really guage performance but she has a very large collection of speeding tickets. Like most owners she had no idea what her fuel consumption was.
Zace waggon too old? Roomy, fairly rugged, low tax bracket engines (1500 or 1800), but apparently quite heavy on fuel and rather “industrial” in character. Probably do badly in a crash too, since its an old design.
There’s a rather similar but rarer and slightly more rounded waggon called IIRC, a “Panther”, which I don’t think I’ve ever seen any mention of on here. THINK its an IZUZU.
Anything known?
Sorry. I just skimmed over it and didn’t read it in detail.
Around one in forty X-Trails at 400,000NT is any good and all of those will be 2WDs. There are far fewer 4WD X-Trails or Ford Escapes. I certainly wouldn’t recommend a Ford Escape though. I’d rather just rob you of your money and kick you in the face. You would still thank me for it later as it would be less pain than owning a thirsty money pit which brakes all the time and is acknowledged to have temperamental airbags. They are cheap though as hardly anyone wants them.
Best 4WD? Toyota Landcruiser, absolutely hands down, maybe followed by a Pajero or even a Range Rover if you don’t mind bashing the crap out of a seriously expensive car with expensive repairs.
Best car for Taiwan mountain roads? Subaru Forester with gas-adjust shocks.
[quote=“urodacus”]Best 4WD? Toyota Landcruiser, absolutely hands down, maybe followed by a Pajero or even a Range Rover if you don’t mind bashing the crap out of a seriously expensive car with expensive repairs.
Best car for Taiwan mountain roads? Subaru Forester with gas-adjust shocks.[/quote]
Why do you always come on my threads and taunt me with what I actually want but cant actually afford. Away with you! :bluemad: