Hello, I’m not currently in Taiwan or residing in Taiwan but I do business with Taiwan companies. Today’s presidential election in Taiwan features 2 candidates with English names (Eric & James), it felt strange. Then I realized that most of my business friends in Taiwan & China also have English names. I do business with Japanese & Koreans too, but not one of them has English names. Anybody know why? Maybe having English names makes it easier for foreign contacts to remember or call them, but again, why just the Chinese, not the Japanese & Koreans? Does it have to do with Chinese culture & history? Is it because Chinese admire the West very much? While the Japanese & Koreans are just so proud of their own culture?
Haha, Christ no, the Chinese are deeply racist towards the west: they regard us as colonial invaders who are stupid and dirty but occasionally economically necessary. It’s a combo of most non-Chinese having no ability to say Chinese names and a kind of hickish, lower middle-class desire to sound ‘international’. The elite certainly do not have English names whereas your hotel receptionist will be called ‘Peggy’ or ‘Samson’ or something odd.
Now Taiwanese people, that’s a different kettle of fish. English names are a lot more common there, probably because most urban kids go to cram schools to learn ENglish and they get ‘English names’ there. When I studied Chinese in Taiwan, the teacher insisted on giving me a Chinese name and the schools I worked in, the Taiwanese staff insisted on giving the children English names. Doesn’t really happen so much in China: probably two thirds of my students use their real names in class. The reasons? You can pick it apart, but Taiwanese people tend to see it as a friendly, fun thing to do. Taiwanese people, I’ve known friends change their Chinese name because it was ‘bad luck’ – there just isn’t the culture that the name your parents gave you must be used, as there kind of is in my culture.
Actually, Chinese should be proud of their culture & heritage. Chinese history is much longer than Japanese & Koreans. More than 90% of Taiwanese are ethnic Chinese, so they can be proud of that too.
The romanization of given names in Taiwan is a real mess–inconsistent, and even when consistent, often unclear. In contrast, Japanese and (I presume) Korean romanization schemes are consistent: no lack of clarity, no messing around.
Also, what Ermintrude said.
Guy
I remember ironlady writing once, and I can’t remember if she was quoting, but she probably was: China’s history is the same 50 years repeated 100 times. No-one should be proud of their heritage. It’s nonsensical jingoistic crap that is in the past. We should be proud of doing what we do today.
Why should anyone be proud of their ethnicity? People are a mix of stuff. If I said I was ‘proud of my heritage’, I’d probably be talking about our literature, the creation of the industrial revolution, television, telephones, the internet, electric lighting and penicillin. I’d be skirting over the Crusades, the Boer War, and our complicity in and profit from slavery. But I wouldn’t do that because I had no more hand in the Crusades than in inventing penicillin.
‘The Chinese’ need to grow up and look around them. If they want to accept the reflected light from the art and beauty of China, they need to take collective responsibility for the cradle of filth China’s becoming (as I look out my window this morning, I can barely see across the street and and old man is tipping a can of blue paint into the stream that runs through allotments that poor people grow veggies on.). That’s certainly not going to happen.
And about Taiwan? They have an imperfect but functioning democracy and have a female president-elect. That is something to be proud of, not all the stupid ‘Chinese culture’ crap that holds them back as a modern nation.
[quote=“Ermintrude”]
I remember ironlady writing once, and I can’t remember if she was quoting, but she probably was: China’s history is the same 50 years repeated 100 times. No-one should be proud of their heritage. It’s nonsensical jingoistic crap that is in the past. We should be proud of doing what we do today.
Why should anyone be proud of their ethnicity? People are a mix of stuff. If I said I was ‘proud of my heritage’, I’d probably be talking about our literature, the creation of the industrial revolution, television, telephones, the internet, electric lighting and penicillin. I’d be skirting over the Crusades, the Boer War, and our complicity and profit from slavery. But I wouldn’t do that because I had no more hand in the Crusades than in inventing penicillin.
‘The Chinese’ need to grow up and look around them. If they want to accept the reflected light from the art and beauty of China, they need to take collective responsibility for the cradle of filth China’s becoming (as I look out my window this morning, I can barely see across the street and and old man is tipping a can of blue paint into the stream that runs through allotments that poor people grow veggies on.). That’s certainly not going to happen.
And about Taiwan? They have an imperfect but functioning democracy and have a female president-elect. That is something to be proud of, not all the stupid ‘Chinese culture’ crap that holds them back as a modern nation.[/quote]
This is the best post that I’ve read on this forum in the last two years. Multiple meaningless kudos to you, ma’am. :bravo: 
I remember ironlady writing once, and I can’t remember if she was quoting, but she probably was: China’s history is the same 50 years repeated 100 times. No-one should be proud of their heritage. It’s nonsensical jingoistic crap that is in the past. We should be proud of doing what we do today.
Why should anyone be proud of their ethnicity? People are a mix of stuff. If I said I was ‘proud of my heritage’, I’d probably be talking about our literature, the creation of the industrial revolution, television, telephones, the internet, electric lighting and penicillin. I’d be skirting over the Crusades, the Boer War, and our complicity in and profit from slavery. But I wouldn’t do that because I had no more hand in the Crusades than in inventing penicillin.
‘The Chinese’ need to grow up and look around them. If they want to accept the reflected light from the art and beauty of China, they need to take collective responsibility for the cradle of filth China’s becoming (as I look out my window this morning, I can barely see across the street and and old man is tipping a can of blue paint into the stream that runs through allotments that poor people grow veggies on.). That’s certainly not going to happen.
And about Taiwan? They have an imperfect but functioning democracy and have a female president-elect. That is something to be proud of, not all the stupid ‘Chinese culture’ crap that holds them back as a modern nation.[/quote]
Wow, widely applicable. Marking this for future reference.
[quote=“Ermintrude”]
Why should anyone be proud of their ethnicity?[/quote]
Well, at least nobody has to be ashamed of their ethnicity. Or have low self-esteem due to their heritage. Indeed, “people are a mix of stuff”, but ethnicity counts in some countries. You will become sensible of your own when you experience racial discrimination, or worse, ethnic riots. Did you know that there are ethnic Chinese in some countries which are not allowed to have Chinese names? Then you hear of people in Taiwan & China adopting English names? Culture is important as it is the invisible bond which ties people together. And history, we need to learn from mistakes & glories of the past.
Okay, I’m going to demystify Taiwanese names for everyone here. (disclaimer: I am Taiwanese, and I know what I’m talking about. )
Taiwanese names (especially post ww2) are picked not according to heritage but by parents’ limited creativity, whim, superstition and whatever is fashionable. Typically consisted of two syllables, the combination does not necessarily “sound good (i.e., sounding good implies some heritage”). It is so random to the extent that in your immediate circle, there is almost zero chance that you’d know two people having the same name OR having names that sound the same.
And it’s hard to remember people’s name too.
Christian names are easy to remember. And, it is customary in Han culture that literate adults pick their own name:
名 Name picked by parents.
字 Name adults pick for themselves. Formal name.
號 Name adults prefer to be known as.
The 3 traditional ways of naming were scrapped.
They are not mysterious.
I think people in the mainland, especially HK and in Taiwan like having English nick names. Sometimes, especailly girls will pick something cute like “bambi” or something.
I’m half Korean myself, I think Koreans are much more prideful of their culture and heritage. Some of my Korean friends have English nick names if they live in a English speaking country. Those that don’t, find no need for one. And they expect you, or rather respect you if you can speak or at least try to speak Korean like when I was in France.
I think pinyin Chinese names are way harder to pronounce than romanized Japanese or Korean names. First of all, the typical Westerner doesn’t even know if the name is romanized from Mandarin, Cantonese, etc. Then you have the crazy different pinyin systems used and no indication of tones. Unless you actually speak Mandarin/Cantonese/etc pretty well, the chances of you pronouncing the name correctly are pretty much zero.
At least that’s my take on why Chinese speakers would be more likely to pick an easier English name.
Starting in the middle of the 20th century, I’d venture to say that Taiwan’s close ties to the US also played a role in English names becoming widely-adopted.
The Philipinos have Spanish names or Christian names. Just treat Taiwan like the Philippines.
[quote=“Oxtail”]I think pinyin Chinese names are way harder to pronounce than romanized Japanese or Korean names. First of all, the typical Westerner doesn’t even know if the name is romanized from Mandarin, Cantonese, etc. Then you have the crazy different pinyin systems used and no indication of tones. Unless you actually speak Mandarin/Cantonese/etc pretty well, the chances of you pronouncing the name correctly are pretty much zero.
At least that’s my take on why Chinese speakers would be more likely to pick an easier English name.[/quote]
Maybe Korean and Japanese feel the same way, but I suspect that when most native-speaking Chinese people hear a non-Chinese speaker pronounce their Chinese name it is jarring and discordant and usually unrecognizable. Irrespective of whether it is romanized in pinyin or wade giles, when a non Chinese speaker pronounces 張/Zhang/Chang, it doesn’t sound anything like the Chinese way. It sounds like a completely new word or name. So I could imagine Chinese speakers thinking “If English speakers are going to effectively give me a new name when they mispronounce my Chinese name, I may as well just pick a new English name and save everybody the bother.”
Yeah. It makes me cringe when furriners mangle my name, but hell, I’m not choosing a new fake name for every country I live in.
Koreans, I knew a few Korean students when I taught in my hometown in England who changed their names, but most didn’t.
Taiwan cannot be like the Philippines. Ethnic Chinese in the Philippines just about 5%, while in Taiwan more than 95%.
Actually Korean romanization isn’t that good either. The top three most common names are pronounced wrongly because of their romanization: Kim (Gim), Park (Bak), Lee (I).
I am in favor of a romanization that resembles much closer to its original form: Tsai instead of Cai, for instance.
Actually Korean romanization isn’t that good either. The top three most common names are pronounced wrongly because of their romanization: Kim (Gim), Park (Bak), Lee (I).
I am in favor of a romanization that resembles much closer to its original form: Tsai instead of Cai, for instance.[/quote]
In most romanizations, k is the unaspirated voiceless velar plosive (e.g. skill), kh is the aspirated voiceless velar plosive (e.g. kill). So Kim is a fine Romanization. Lee being pronounced as /i/ is a relatively modern elision. They kept the L because in the beginning the L is preserved in writing form even if people don’t pronounce it, kind of like gh and k in knight. I have no idea why Koreans used “ee” instead of “i” or why they transliterate 박 as Park. I am going to guess those were Anglicization rather than Romanization. Not sure if it was done by the Korean themselves or by foreign missionary.
박 came from 朴 which is a simplified way of writing 樸, which is /pʰok/ in Middle Chinese.
To me, it is helping me to obfuscate my actual identity. I have been in US for close to 30 years. None of my past work places, casual American friends, neighbors knew my real Chinese name.
Many of us in US kept our Chinese names in official documents: citizenship paper, Social Security card, driver’s license. But, we picked an English name as middle name to make it easy for everyday life, and in work places. Some Chinese names can be a source of joke, target, or simply embarrassment due to sounding weird. A friend of mine, is Bu Shih. Can you blame him to pick an English name?
We are now appearing as ‘John Wong’ on internet and casual acquaintance, but on the credit card, it would still show the real name. I believe this is helping us to be less of a fraud target.