It’s my understanding that most Christians would say, yes, of course He can. God’s powers are without limitations. There is nothing He cannot do.
You probably know where I’m going already.
Question No. 2: Can God create an object so heavy he cannot pick it up?
I know, it’s an old one. And I know, people often respond that it’s not a legitimate question, it’s really just playing around with words, or something like that, and they use that as an excuse to avoid answering it. But I completely fail to comprehend how that’s not a legitimate question.
If people claim Creature A is capable of performing any task, I have simply described a task and asked if Creature A is capable of performing it. Well, can he do it or not? If he can perform that task, please explain why you believe He can do anything when he cannot pick up that object. If he cannot perform the task, then the basic premise is incorrect, isn’t it: God cannot do anything?
Is there anyone here who believes God (a) exists and (b) can do anything? What about Question No. 2?
I do believe that God exists, I do believe He can do anything, but I don’t believe He would choose to make something so heavy He couldn’t pick it up. How’s that?
Yes, he can create such an object and he can then move it.
[quote]I asked if He/She is capable of doing so if He/She so desired[/quote]He/She/It probably wouldn’t desire to, and would never need to be a position of needing to. Holding a gun to God’s head would be futile.
[quote=“Big Fluffy Matthew”]Yes, he can create such an object and he can then move it.
Sounds illogical? Have you looked at quantum physics? That doesn’t make any sense (Things can be in two places at once), but seems to be correct.[/quote]
Ok, that’s much more of a valid attempt to answer the question, but you’ll need to be more specific. Yes, there are things about quantum physics that don’t seem to make sense. But I wasn’t asking about quantum physics. Your response seems to be just a mere rhetorical trick, responding to the question with an unrelated situation and somehow vaguely trying to correlate the two.
Can you please address the questions directly?
If He can do anything, can he create an object so heavy he can’t lift it?
If not, then he can’t do anything, can he?
If so, then he is incapable of lifting it, isn’t He?
If so, then he can’t do anything, can He?
The only logical solution, in my mind, is that if He exists, he clearly CANNOT do anything. No other answer makes sense.
I’m not demanding that God do it. Just asking if it’s theoretically possible. There’s a distinction, but for some reason most people flat out refuse to answer the question but use diversionary tactics.
Wow, He’s reaaaally strong. Can He move anything? He can? Wow.
I bet He can’t make an object that weighs a thousand tons.
He can? Wow, I knoooow He can’t make an object that weighs a million tons.
He can? Wow, that’s amazing. Can He make something of any size whatsoever?
Holy cow, that’s amazing. Ok, can he make something so large that he can’t lift it.
Oops, end of discussion.
I fail to see how that is an illegitimate question and would appreciate someone explaining that, because I still believe that response is just a cop-out.
Wow, He’s reaaaally strong. Can He move anything? He can? Wow.
I bet He can’t make an object that weighs a thousand tons.
He can? Wow, I knoooow He can’t make an object that weighs a million tons.
He can? Wow, that’s amazing. Can He make something of any size whatsoever?
Holy cow, that’s amazing. Ok, can he make something so large that he can’t lift it.
Oops, end of discussion.
I fail to see how that is an illegitimate question and would appreciate someone explaining that, because I still believe that response is just a cop-out.[/quote]You were right up to a million tons. What we need to do now is found out how much he can’t lift.
Me “God? How much can’t you lift?”
God “There is nothing I cannot lift”
Me “Go on, give me a number, I have a pint riding on this”
God “There is no such number”
Bit stuck here. You can use infinity, but you don’t seem to have concept of that. All the maths would result in a singularity and be meaningless. Even in universe has a definite size.
Your question is like asking “Can God do something he can’t do?” What does that mean? Maybe an allknowing all-understanding god would know, but us motals have no idea what that means.
There’s paradoxes in every system of logic. When you start talking about the infinite, you can get into trouble.
Can God create two big rocks and make them have incest?
Exactly, the problem in answering your question is a limitation of human intellect, our system of logic, and language. If there is a God, and he/she/it is omnipotent, then those “powers” stretch so far beyond what we’re capable of understanding it would be like asking a bacterium to do something crazy… like… operate a computer with Windows Vista…
MT, leave the Christians alone. It’s not their fault. if you want to play with Christians, there are two recognised ways.
one involves lions, and the other involves Muslim fundamentalism, though the second still requires belief in a deity who can make and break any rules they want, when it suits them.
How about, can God take the square root of a negative number and come up with a rational number?
Can God add 2 (and only 2) to 2 (and only 2) and get a number other than 4 from that operation?
MT, the link provided is not a cop-out. It’s the perfect answer. The question ignores the underlying meaning of omnipotence and creates a question that has premises that are logically impossible, which makes the question itself invalid.
But, how about this, let’s call any solution to the logical problem X and X’ (X and not X) “/\lpha/<>mega” and denote it as “/<>”. This is the equivalent of saying the square-root of -1 is i.
Now, by virtue of the all encompassing definition of omnipotence you are trying to use including ability to do all things, both possible and logically impossible, by definition, God has the power /<>.
So:
God has the power to lift all rocks of any size (from definition of omnipotence)
God has the power to create a rock of any size (from the definition of omnipotence)
God can make a rock so great even he cannot lift it (from 2)
God can lift the rock in 3.
Let’s call statements #3 X and statement number 4 X’.
QED, God can create a rock so heavy he cannot lift it (from <
/<>)
I think I am god. bob god of the abstract nonsensical repetitive and subtextual. Like other gods bob god has no real power. bob god cannot, for example, explain god, except in quite vague terms. bob is vague. god is vague. bob god is vague, and contradictory. god wishes he was bob, but bob does not wish he was god because bob is already bob god. God, bob, are you OK? Yes thank you bob god. Have lost weight and started doing yoga. Back feeling a little better, etc.
The answer in Maoman’s link may be correct from a logical perspective, but it doesn’t apply to the situation in hand in my opinion, and is not a valid answer. MT has asked a valid, simple concrete question. Either it is possible or it is not, to say that it is not logically possible doesn’t answer anything.
“the immovable object vs. the unstoppable force” is not in the same category, these are abstract concepts. If you want to postulate the existence of a concrete God, you have to roll with the punches.
Here’s my answer: God can create any rock, and he can lift any rock, so he simply cannot create a rock so heavy that he cannot lift it. Call it a chip in the boulder of omnipotence, it slightly mars the finish but is too insignificant to make any practical difference.