Moderators Note: This thread is an offshot of the Yamaha FZ6 thread…
Even if they allowed big big bikes on there. Would you want to? It’s dangerous enough dealing with slow moving idiot drivers here, imagine having to compete with fast moving ones. I think I’ll just stick to the twisty mountain roads.
Well, you might as well just stick with scooters then. Since a good rider on a scooter can keep up with a big bike on the mountain roads…where it’s not easy to do quicker than 80km/hr…and the lighter scooters have the advantage.
I personally won’t ride the twisty mountain roads at all anymore (with the big bike), I’ve had my fill of blind corners thankyouverymuch.
Mordeth:
“I personally won’t ride the twisty mountain roads at all anymore (with the big bike), I’ve had my fill of blind corners thank you very much.”
Then what’s the point of getting a big bike if you want to go straight, especially with the mods you are talking about (carbon rims). And I agree with Plasmatron, I doubt a scooter rider can hang with a big bike on any roads, maybe except for a few maniacs. Even then, no scooter can out accelerate a big bike (250cc+). Honestly Mordeth, you have driven on the highway/freeways in Taiwan, you know how fricken dangerous they are, would you venture onto them on your skinny bike? Any fall or mistake would basically mean death. I for one wouldn’t want to do battle with tail gating big rigs and speeding tour buses.
I expect Mordeth is talking about late-night riding when there’s less traffic – there’s no way in hell that driving a bike on the freeway during daylight hours, even off-peak on weekdays, would be anything less than suicidal. On weekends? Forget it!
But then, you’ve got a quarter-million-worth-plus of bike that you take out once every few days simply to blast up and down the freeway for a bit, get a few speeding tickets and then home again. Doesn’t sound like much of a hobby to me.
Anyway, I have the feeling that if they DO open the freeway to bikes, it’ll be closed again in a few months as the fatalities continue to mount. Not because of bad bike driving, but just the normal freeway madness and the millions of car drivers who don’t have a clue about sharing the freeway lanes with bikes.
[quote=“sandman”]
Anyway, I have the feeling that if they DO open the freeway to bikes, it’ll be closed again in a few months as the fatalities continue to mount. Not because of bad bike driving, but just the normal freeway madness and the millions of car drivers who don’t have a clue about sharing the freeway lanes with bikes.[/quote]A buddy of mine, not long in Taiwan, wandered onto freeway by mistake. Okay, he’s not exactly Einstein… His experience was that about one in twenty cars would spot him on the bike, start honking and waving at him to get off the freeway (like how, straight off the embankment?) and when he didn’t immediately comply, tried to squash him into the armco or sandwich him with another vehicle.
Somehow I don’t think a change in the law is going to change that mindset very much…
Plasmatron: I was thinking of the unfaired SV650… like this.
I guess I meant expressway and not freeway? I’ve ridden on the expressway many times…never had a problem. There are already some raised expressways that big bikes are allowed on. And as far as I know…there haven’t been any deaths or problems. So, next year they will be opening up the rest…supposedly.
If that’s true…then why on the LongTan car race track…are the fastest lap times held by 150cc and under bikes and scooters…and superbikes rode by “expert” riders can’t compare? Because on a windy track like that…which compares to mountain roads…lighter more agile vehicles will have the advantage. I’m not shit on my bike…I’ve raced against whole groups of superbikes on multiple occasions…and pulled away from all of them…and I’ve tried keeping up with groups of scooters on windy mountain roads…and failed…or just barely paced them. I’ve ridden with Kwakrider in the mountains…so hopefully he can say I’m not a “moron rider” I’ve also raced on the race track in LongTan…and while it’s not a great track…I was still taking corners at near full lean…and getting the front wheel off the ground on the straights. And I still get beat by scooters on shitty little windy roads with blind corners…I must be an absolute moron rider…hmm. Oh well. Last time I checked you can’t hit speeds much higher than 120 in the mountains…and at those sustained speeds…not much is faster than a 150cc NSR.
For record roads like the #3 are perfect for big bikes…5 lanes two way traffic…with cement divider half of the time…the road is constantly winding…that beats mountain roads or freeways hands down in my opinion.
[quote=“Mordeth”]If that’s true…then why on the LongTan car race track…are the fastest lap times held by 150cc and under bikes and scooters…and superbikes rode by “expert” riders can’t compare? Because on a windy track like that…which compares to mountain roads…lighter more agile vehicles will have the advantage. I’m not shit on my bike…I’ve raced against whole groups of superbikes on multiple occasions…and pulled away from all of them…and I’ve tried keeping up with groups of scooters on windy mountain roads…and failed…or just barely paced them. I’ve ridden with Kwakrider in the mountains…so hopefully he can say I’m not a “moron rider” I’ve also raced on the race track in LongTan…and while it’s not a great track…I was still taking corners at near full lean…and getting the front wheel off the ground on the straights. And I still get beat by scooters on shitty little windy roads with blind corners…I must be an absolute moron rider…hmm. Oh well. Last time I checked you can’t hit speeds much higher than 120 in the mountains…and at those sustained speeds…not much is faster than a 150cc NSR.
For record roads like the #3 are perfect for big bikes…5 lanes two way traffic…with cement divider half of the time…the road is constantly winding…that beats mountain roads or freeways hands down in my opinion.[/quote]
I can only assume that you’re not carrying enough corner speed, which as you pointed out is the advantage that smaller bikes have over bigger ones… just look at the 250ccGP bike’s corner speeds compared to MotoGP bikes… it’s all about massive corner speeds, perfect smooth apex and out… on MotoGP bikes it’s barrel in tip it on it’s ear for the shortest amount of time possible, then pick it back up, put it on the sticky patch and drive out with mind bending power… on public roads you’re corner speed is limited only by skill, suspension, ground clearance and road surface… but for sure how quick you get from A to B on twisty mountain roads is 80% down to whether or not you
Yes, you are very skilled writer. Except for this…
[quote]But I still maintain that there is no way in hell a scooter could keep up with a properly ridden bike on any mountain road
Oh my god! You took the exact words out of my mouth and typed them up Plasmatron. 
Mordeth, I think your definition and Plasmatron’s definition of mountain roads is totally different. Some parts of the #3 cut through some mountain roads. Anyhoot, the only place a scooter would beat a big bike where both riders are of equal skill would be at a mini-track like the one we went to for go-karting. On any road or big track here, there’s no frickin way a scooter would beat a big bike with a semi-competent rider on it.
I already typed my “rebutal” it’s posted after plasmatrons. And you shouldn’t be one to talk about this. You have one of those bikes that he insults for not having any power until the rpms reach a height where your speed is over 100km/hr.
[quote]
even a open gentle corner in 2nd or 3rd gear if you
I typed that rebuttal part before your post was put up. Anyway, I don’t think Plasmatron is putting down anything, or insulting my bike. He’s absolutely right, my bike and most litre bikes have that weakness, and that’s why I’m scared to push it to its limit. Especially with the 10r, it’s got a tall first gear. The induction doesn’t kick in until 5-6k, then all hell breaks loose, but it’s hard to keep it in the sweet spot all the time, and under control. Trust me, the powerband between a 600 is quite different from a 1k bike. On Taiwanese roads my 10r is just too much to handle, sometimes it takes the fun out of riding. I miss when I had my 250 and 400 and could push it to its limit and be able to use all of its potential. There’s no way to do that with my 10r and with most modern litre bikes. I’m starting to understand why V-Twins like Ducatis and Bimmers are so popular in Taiwan. They are really much more managable on Taiwanese roads, and can be used more to their potential.
[quote=“Mordeth”]
I already typed my “rebutal” it’s posted after plasmatrons. And you shouldn’t be one to talk about this. You have one of those bikes that he insults for not having any power until the rpms reach a height where your speed is over 100km/hr.[/quote]
easy now 
… I’m not insulting anything or anyone… sportsbikes are great and if was of average enough build to fit on one, I’d probably have one, and I was pointing out the gap between supersports R&D and the real world of road riding, not insulting anyone or their bike… okay well I wouldn’t mind insulting hamfisted Hayabusa riders who think they are the dogs danglers because they’ve got 1300cc’s of straight line fury that they corner at 25km/h… then try to blast it on the straights like an idiot and they quite likely would be beaten by a skilled NSR rider, refuting my point… but only them…
BUT…
Mordeth mate I hear what you’re saying about some roads just being rediculously twisty, but your go-kart track analogy falls flat (a-ha ha…ahem…) since it is in fact… flat… ie no hills… plus don’t forget that you’re imagining taking on a scoot on a go-kart track but you’re used to a revvy 600 where you’re constantly swapping gears and moving in and out of peak power… on a go-kart track on the GS it’d be a case of slapping it in 2nd and riding it like a twist 'n go and to be honest I’d be quite confident in taking on a scooter on my local go kart track, if nothing else I’d have him on the brakes, you’d be amazed what servo assisted ABS lets you get away with in the late braking dept… a trick NSR would be another story perhaps…
I’m prepared to accept that in some possible world there is the potential for there to exist a set of mountain twisties that is somehow freakishly suited to scooter riders at the expense of big bikes… but so far I’ve not seen any myself…
Plasmatron, you have very succinctly pointed out the difference between fast and quick. Well written!
I had a sensibly modified (for midrange torque) NSR for many years and loved nothing better than blasting over the x-island flat out. Much of that (dearly departed) route is as tight and technical as Mordeth’s kart track, but is far from flat.
I have no doubt that just about any bike with more displacement would have beaten me uphill since the limit to my speed was lack of power about 70% of the time. Going downhill might be another matter. 
Back when I was a boy I built a Triton with a wideline and a unit 750. The old guys will know what I mean. Mere 58bhp @6500rpm on tap, but razor sharp handling and huge gobs of torque from 2000rpm up to about 6000. That bike would beat any 750 or 900cc four it came across on a winding back road. They would wail past me on the straights, just to come almost to a stop at the next corner, which I would blast around without even braking for. Rinse and repeat. Made for some fun riding.
Ok, so in those days the big Japanese bikes had killer engines and lousy frames/suspension. Now they have world-beating handling, but the fours have no midrange. Different problem, same result.
This btw is why I suggested the SV650 to MJB. Lovely midrange torque and very nimble handling… ideal for the conditions you’ll find here. Maybe a twin won’t go 270 in a straight line, but I don’t think I’d want to, not anywhere in Taiwan except maybe a deserted freeway at 3am on a weekday.
What I find happens with the scooters vs. bikes on very twisty roads is that the scooters do 100 and hold it there. While the bikes get up to 120ish on the straights and then brake to about 80 on the corners. So riding the big bike is still a lot more fun, because you are accelerating hard and braking hard…more interesting and more of a challenge. But the speed difference between the two types is negligible.
And if you think a 200kg bike can take a very tight corner as fast as a scooter…well then you’re mistaken. KawasakiRider and I have both taken our bikes onto a go-kart track…and it was a joke.
If you are serious about racing a scooter on a go-kart track I could arrange it Plasmatron…for every 1,000 you put up I’ll put up 5.
Sh*t! Can I get in on this action. I’ll put money on Plasmatron. If my bike wasn’t broken I would want to take on this challenge. So who are you gonna pick for the scooter rider? You?
:loco: I rode on a scooter track with you. We putted along doing no speed at all. And now you will put money on plasmatron…what a joke. Your funeral man…a 1000cc BMW racing a racing scooter on a go-kart track…and you guys think the BMW will win… 
. Please try and prove me wrong…I could use the money.
There is a race day coming up at a local go-kart track out in Long-Tan…it’s very close to the car race track T.I.S. (I think that’s what it was called). Anyway it’s just off of the the number 3. Which your buddy skylark lives close to. So that’s just one road to get there. The race day is September 4th. It will be scooters on a go-kart track. If you want to do some practice laps and then race one of them…maybe I’ll even let you pick. Once I tell them that someone is stu…uhh…brave enough to try to race a big BMW bike vs a scooter on a go-kart track I’m more than sure they’ll agree to it. I’ll come up with as much money as you want to bet. Hell I’ll even put my bike up against yours…race for pinks. You beat the scooter I’ll give you my CBR. But if that were the case then we’d have to race for best lap time. I wouldn’t want you pushing the guy off of the track and then I lose my bike…or anything like that.
I’ll give you twice as many laps to get a best lap from as well. You can practice for as long as you want…then you do ten laps and we’ll take the best one. The scooter will do five and we’ll take his best one.
Or we can race for whatever…10k, 50k whatever you feel like you can afford to lose.
woah hoho, this is getting hot! We gonna have any massive gambling debts and busted kneecaps over this? Someone please video this race, I wanna see! (I live in Kaohsiung and can’t make it in person… ) Let’s get a betting pool going here!
I’m so there…Whatever the outcome.
This would be a good track I think in all fairness, as it’s a little bigger than your average Go kart track but still…It hurts to say it , but I’m going to side with Mordeth on this one. You ever seen what some of these racing scooters can do? You’d end up doing the entire race in first gear on your big beemer, and most of the corners are only 30-80 meters apart…There is one fairly long sweeping right hander where you could do some catch up though at the end is a super tight 180 degree right hand turn, where you’d be out-apexed by the shorter wheelbase two stroke that would always be in it’s sweet spot powerband-wise.
But Mordeth, to make it fair, you’ll have to invite the same scooter racer afterwards to a no-holds barred race across Beihen…
Mordeth, are you serious when you said you don’t take your bike up into the mountains anymore? 
I thought this was a bike against scooter in the mountains race? Mordeth, if you are refering to the go-kart track we went to then that isn’t fair. It’s barely big enough for 2 go-karts to take corners on.