Bike set-up, posture and back pain

Recreation Cycling
1

I am experiencing lower back problems, probably ultimately caused by impacts in the past but they came on out of the blue yesterday. I’m seeing Doctor Mark the chiropractor and his diagnosis and comments about cycling seem reasonable enough.

I’ve never really scientifically set up my bike. It’s pretty much as it was when I rolled it out of the shop - obviously I adjusted the saddle but not much else.

So my question is does anyone know of someone (bike shop) who knows about bikes and backs or where the best place would be to get my bike set up optimally? I don’t think cycling is the cause of my problems, but would like to get my bike right.

2

I have similar problems. I got my bike cheap - brand new Giant for 5k from a foreign businessman who bought it when he came and then put it in his junk room for two years, without ever having ridden it once. Problem is, it’s a 19" frame. It feels small on me. I’ve raised the seat and the handlebars as much as I can, and my legs are fine now, but my upper body feels, well, stressed. I find if I shift my riding position so that I’m resting my hands on the handlebar with the upper part of my palm (the place where callouses might form if one were to spend a day shoveling gravel), then my torso feels less stressed, but that’s obviously not do-able for any length of time.

wookie, sulavaca, Mother T, any others in the know, what’s the problem here? My legs and lungs (surprisingly!) aren’t doing badly at all when I bike to work (26kms round trip) but my hands hurt, and my back feels stressed. Do I need a new bike?

Edit: oh, and my ass hurts too.

3

I’m guessing at 26km daily you need the right bike.

4

I don’t know how tall you are, but I remember that you were a head or so above the sons of Gloin that infest this planet. My impression is that 19" is way too small for you.

On this topic, where can I get a 66cm frame? And don’t say Alan’s Bike Shop. I checked. I’ll settle for 65cm.

5

Ideally you’ll want a professional bike fit. If you can find a bike shop that does Retul fit (computer analysis) that would be the best route.

A tip for finding your best saddle height is the “LeMond Method”

You will need a carpenter’s square, record album, or large, thin book; a measuring tape and a friend to help you.

First in bare feet and wearing cycling shorts, stand with your back against a wall, place your feet about six inches apart. Put the carpenters square (or record album/book) between your legs with one side flush against the wall and the other side sticking out in front of you. The top edge should be parallel to the floor. Raise the carpenter’s square until the pressure you feel against your crotch is equal to the pressure you feel from a saddle when you are pedaling easy. Hold it there and have your friend use a measuring tape to measure from the top of the horizontal edge of the carpenters sqaure to the floor. Record this crotch-to-floor distance precisely in center-meters. Mulitply this number by 0.883.

The result is the proper height, in cms, for your saddle height, measured from your bottom bracket axle to the top of the saddle along the seat tube.

This was taken from Andy Pruitt’s Complete Medical Guide for Cyclists. An excellent book all about bike fit and the different pain areas and remedies for them.

6

Go to Alan’s in Gongguan. They’ll set you up properly.

I would also seriously recommend looking into an SW saddle. They are FAR better than any other I have ever tried and set your posture perfectly whilst at the same time reduce chaffing and pressure on the wrong places. Alan’s should have some available.

7

The Retul website retul.com/fitter_list.asp mentions one person in Taiwan who’s trained to do their fittings, but it sounds to me they’re giving the guy’s residential address, unless you know of any bike shops on the 8th floor of a building…

“Taiwan
William Hsu
8th Floor, No 2-1, Lane 61, Section 2
Zhi Yu Road, Shi Lin District
Taipei, 111
Taiwan”

Without necessarily starting a human search engine, does anyone know where William Hsu works?

As for Bikedan’s suggestion, the Lemond method is a start, but remember it is only a guideline. The standard Lemond measure has an artificial level of accuracy - by saying it should be 0.883 * pubic bone height it sounds as if it’ll give you the right dimension to the nearest millimetre. But that doesn’t take into account that people with the same pubic bone height might have different thigh, calf and foot sizes and have different level of suppleness. The 0.883 result will not be perfect for everyone.

By all means start with the 0.883 measure but be prepared to adjust your saddle up or down by a few centimetres afterwards.

8

What’s an SW saddle? I’m pretty well sold on Brooks myself.

9

Sorry. Typo. That was supposed to be ‘SQ Lab’.

The SQ design is quite revolutionary, although it appears not much different to most other saddles. The difference is noticed however as soon as you put your buttocks on it. They produce a variety of differing widths to accommodate different bone structures. Once you have had your sit bones measured for width and fitted with a saddle, then you notice how only your sit bones are in contact with the saddle when you are in the correct position.

It saves chaffing because it practically forces you to sit properly whilst also only concentrating your contact onto the sit points. It keeps your other bits out of contact with the saddle, so they aren’t affected.
By forcing your posture it also keeps you at a more appropriate angle whilst riding and relieves stress from the lower back and arms somewhat. When you change position with your arse it feels like an unnatural angle and you return to the appropriate one.

I have a racing saddle which I tried for the store when I was working there. I never thought it would be comfortable as it is so narrow, yet I can actually go touring on it really as it is simply the most comfortable one I’ve ever had.

I did Yanminshan the other day after over six months off cycling and not even the slightest saddle sore came.

10

30,000km on a Brooks and no complaints yet.

I think my saddle is fine, and I haven’t had any problems with posture on the bike - it’s just, being unable to move without feelings ranging from discomfort to intense pain for the last two days, I’m willing to consider any possible causes.

11

I would definitely recommend the Selle SMP composite or glider saddles

You can read my review of the Selle SMP on my blog tinyurl.com/y9lujfl

The composite is what I currently ride and while it is quite hard, it is surprisingly comfortable. The Glider is the same design as the composite but has extra padding for extra comfort!

I used to ride on an all-white Arione titanium saddle, which is arguably the most popular saddle in the pro peloton and you also see scores of recreational riders with them (differing colors). It was an excellent saddle and gave me options for different positions due to its length but it was not perfectly comfortable. Since I made the switch to the Selle SMP, I noticed a big difference in comfort levels and riding efficiency. However, saddle sores still come about like most other saddles --a direct relationship to the amount of riding you do. Saddle sores can actually be reduced from using chamois cream. I use Soprasella Saddle Cream by Hibros for long rides, especially if they are going to be multi-day ones.

12

i can’t see it being an issue about your saddle - it must be the bike - the frame and handlebars are just wrong. I wouldn’t worry too much about how to get the right size. Just go and try out some bikes, see what you like.

13

Well its actually a combination of all contact points which determine an adequate riding position. That’s pedals, saddle, handlebars, and not just that, but of course the angle set by the frame one is straddling.

Which one you like may only be determined often by riding for many hours. Its not always practical to determine that from riding any given bicycle for a short time. Even days sometimes.

That SMP saddle is of the same logic in design as the SQ Lab that I referred to as far as I can tell.

14

fruitloop - I know that there exist some “professional” bike fitting places somewhere in Taiwan but can’t say where, sorry. I am trying to find out from someone I know who lives in Taichung who had a fitting done there.

But from the picture you posted, it’s pretty obvious that your problem really is your saddle. It’s the wrong colour.

15

This year Lance Armstrong was having a lot of problems with his back-cycling just tightens up many of the back/hip muscles-especially as you get older, and you’ll need to do a lot of stretching.

I used to love riding the small country roads around Taipei’s fringes, and was fast and fit. But I stopped because it would always leave me with a sore back. Bike was too small, as well. The exercise I do now has left me just as fit, with less back pain.

Good luck on getting the correct fitting bike, hope that solution helps.

16

Agreed. Funny that someone else just started this thread, because I had considered starting the same thread due to my own recent lower back problems from cycling.

On short rides by the river, no problem. Even on a 2 hour ride up FKK and back, no problem. But when I go 80 or 90k, up Yangmingshan, down the other side, then back up FKK, my lower back gets tense and for the rest of the day I may suffer an occassional extremely intense, incapacitating muscle spasm that grips my lower back severely, rendering me totally motionless, and forcing me to wait a moment before gradually easing out of that position. It doesn’t happen a lot, but the last 2 weekends I did a grueling ride as described and encountered it maybe 4 times the first weekend and twice this weekend.

Someone suggested to me it could be a mineral (zinc) deficiency, but I don’t think so. I think it’s simpler than that. I think riding a bike is an unusual, stressed position and if you’re 20 years old, fit and supple, no problem. But as one gets older and stiffer and fatter and exercises less frequently, the lower back muscles (and maybe neck muscles for some people) will get fatigued from the stress. I think the solution is simple. After a painful ride, take a long hot shower or bath, get massage if possible, and do lots of very gentle stretching. Then after that, start a regular routine of very gentle stretching exercises every morning, every evening, and before and after every ride; and, start doing some very gentle exercises to strengthen the lower back and abs, such as crunches and good mornings (with no weight initially). At least that’s what I intend to do.

Of course, the above assumes your bike is fitted properly. You should definitely look into that, too, to see if that’s at least part of the source of your pain.

As for the butt, I think that’s fairly inevitable in all beginning riders, but if you’ve been riding regularly it should be subsiding, so maybe a new saddle might help.

17

[quote=“greenmark”]fruitloop - I know that there exist some “professional” bike fitting places somewhere in Taiwan but can’t say where, sorry. I am trying to find out from someone I know who lives in Taichung who had a fitting done there.

But from the picture you posted, it’s pretty obvious that your problem really is your saddle. It’s the wrong colour.[/quote]

I have a second Brooks saddle, which is tan.

I have no problems with the saddle, butt or chafing although occasionally after going a long while without tightening the leather (little and not too often is the key) I forget that it can be even more comfortable when the leather is at the correct tension - it stretches over time. They say Brooks are good for tens of thousands of km and potentially decades. I can attest to the former, though not the latter.

I don’t think my current problem is due to riding - I’ve barely been able to walk since Sunday, but I think it’s inter-vertebral rather than muscular. Since I clearly have a back problem and it’s possible it could be here to stay, I’d like to pay a little more attention to correct setup.

18

[quote=“Mother Theresa”]Someone suggested to me it could be a mineral (zinc) deficiency, but I don’t think so. I think it’s simpler than that. I think riding a bike is an unusual, stressed position and if you’re 20 years old, fit and supple, no problem. But as one gets older and stiffer and fatter and exercises less frequently, the lower back muscles (and maybe neck muscles for some people) will get fatigued from the stress. I think the solution is simple. After a painful ride, take a long hot shower or bath, get massage if possible, and do lots of very gentle stretching. Then after that, start a regular routine of very gentle stretching exercises every morning, every evening, and before and after every ride; and, start doing some very gentle exercises to strengthen the lower back and abs, such as crunches and good mornings (with no weight initially). At least that’s what I intend to do.

Of course, the above assumes your bike is fitted properly. You should definitely look into that, too, to see if that’s at least part of the source of your pain.

As for the butt, I think that’s fairly inevitable in all beginning riders, but if you’ve been riding regularly it should be subsiding, so maybe a new saddle might help.[/quote]
Good comments, agree with most of that.

I just want to add two exercises that could help you:

  1. Kicking with a board in the pool-200m-1km. It stretches out your spine, lossens the muscles, and strengthens the core, leg, neck, back, and shoulder muscles

  2. using a pull up bar in a park or gym, do 1 (or several) pull up(s) first, then while at the top, do 10-20 knee lifts. Then once finished, carefully do a good long stretch of your back using your hands in a wide position behind you on the pull up bar, stretching up and back, holding it and breathing for a minute.

19

[quote=“sulavaca”]Go to Alan’s in Gongguan. They’ll set you up properly.

I would also seriously recommend looking into an SW saddle. They are FAR better than any other I have ever tried and set your posture perfectly whilst at the same time reduce chaffing and pressure on the wrong places. Alan’s should have some available.[/quote]

I went to Alan’s in Gongguan last month. They said the largest MTB frame size they carried was 21". I need a 23" frame minimum, and probably a 26" would be ideal. I’ll scratch the 26" as impossible, but 23" is XXL for most bike brands. Surely some store somewhere has one in the back collecting dust. Does anyone have any ideas where in Taipei I might find one? I’ve been to about three dozen stores here in Taichung the last couple of months.

20

[quote=“Maoman”]I have similar problems. I got my bike cheap - brand new Giant for 5k from a foreign businessman who bought it when he came and then put it in his junk room for two years, without ever having ridden it once. Problem is, it’s a 19" frame. It feels small on me. I’ve raised the seat and the handlebars as much as I can, and my legs are fine now, but my upper body feels, well, stressed. I find if I shift my riding position so that I’m resting my hands on the handlebar with the upper part of my palm (the place where callouses might form if one were to spend a day shoveling gravel), then my torso feels less stressed, but that’s obviously not do-able for any length of time.

wookie, sulavaca, Mother T, any others in the know, what’s the problem here? My legs and lungs (surprisingly!) aren’t doing badly at all when I bike to work (26kms round trip) but my hands hurt, and my back feels stressed. Do I need a new bike?

Edit: oh, and my ass hurts too.[/quote]

Most of these problems are due to the back being in nearly constant flexion while riding. The flexed position is held for too long overstressing the flexor muscles and I seriously doubt you’re compensating by lengthening the spinal extensors during the day. Stretching alone isn’t going to solve the problem, unfortunately. You’ll need to strengthen the flexors and stretch the extensors.

Your butt is likely hurting because you aren’t getting enough glute and hamstring use from the riding. sitting all day (as many people do) and then sitting on the bike doesn’t cut it. This is pretty common among riders.

Finally, your hip adductors are likely very tight because there’s no lateral movement in biking.

Most of these are posterior chain problems and I don’t want to seem self-promoting but there’s an ideal solution to these problems:

The kettlebell swing that Armstrong is doing is a nearly perfect exercise to undo the imbalances caused by too much cycling. It works the posterior chain more efficiently than anything I know. Kettlebell cosack squats are ideal for hitting the hip adductors, too. And they’re fairly simple exercises to learn.

If anyone would like more info on how to rehab this stuff, please let me know.