Black in Taiwan

Hi,
I had originally posted this question on another site, and it was suggested that I post on this site because there were more people (in particular, Imaniou) who could give me a solid response. Thanks in advance for your help!


I’m planning to go to Taiwan next year to teach, and I was hoping to get some advice. I’m particularly concerned about racism. I’m black.

  1. I’ve seen some schools advertising for blond, blue-eyed teachers. Will it be difficult for me to get a job? Is there a certain area or type of school I should stay away from? What area is particularly welcoming?

  2. How unusual is it to see a black person in Taiwan? Are there black professionals, teachers there?

  3. I’m hoping to go to a part of Taiwan that is a little less of an urban jungle than New York City (where I live now) or Taipei. Any recommendations? I’ve heard Taichung is nice. Anyone know anything about that city? Does it have a lot of nice nature areas? Does it welcome foreigners of the darker variety?

  4. And last, but NOT least, how open are Taiwanese men to dating black females? What exactly are the companionship options for a black woman in Taiwan? (It’s not that I’m looking exclusively to date Taiwanese, I just want to know what my options are.)

I can only speak to number 2.

I see an occasional black person walking the street here (Taoyuan and Banqiao). Maybe once every 2 weeks or once a month. But I only see other foriegners (outside of school) every few days or so as well.

In a previous school I saw about 3 in the area I was working-- though not at the same branch as me. So, I’d have to suggest you’d stand out pretty drastically, but all foreigners do here. You’ll probably find it a challenge to find others with the same background as you.

In general, you will face racism here, but unlikely in the form of any sort of antagonism. Just some blond hair/blue eye looking schools may give you a pass when you’re the best qualified candidate.

Best of luck, and I’m sure some other posters with more relevant experience will be along shortly.

[quote=“Persephone”]
I’m planning to go to Taiwan next year to teach, and I was hoping to get some advice. I’m particularly concerned about racism. I’m black.

  1. I’ve seen some schools advertising for blond, blue-eyed teachers. Will it be difficult for me to get a job? Is there a certain area or type of school I should stay away from? What area is particularly welcoming?[/quote]
    Yes, you can find a job. But you WILL encounter some knuckleheads that will place profits over having teachers. In those situations, I just tell myself that’s not the place God would have wanted me. I would suggest that if you move here, come with at least one and a half to two months living expenses so that you can look for a job without having to stress. Summer seems to be the time to find alot more work as people are going home. You may have to spend more time and put more effort into finding the job that suits you because of your color.

[quote]
2. How unusual is it to see a black person in Taiwan? Are there black professionals, teachers there?
[/quote] Imaiou is a profesional as well as many others. There aren’t a plethoria(sp?) of us here, but we are here especially in Taipei. If you go to Kaoshiung, or a ‘smaller’ town you may find less. But we are here :laughing:

[quote]
3. I’m hoping to go to a part of Taiwan that is a little less of an urban jungle than New York City (where I live now) or Taipei. Any recommendations? I’ve heard Taichung is nice. Anyone know anything about that city? Does it have a lot of nice nature areas? Does it welcome foreigners of the darker variety?[/quote] I’ve been to Taichung,and didn’t care for it, but then again I didn’t really check it out. Just a day trip. I think whereever you go you’ll find that it’s sometimes its a lot about attitude and sometimes you have to deal with knuckleheaded beliefs about blacks. Nonetheless, it’s a case by case situation, you can’t ‘prepare’ for it like in the States with certain situations. You just have to be open, and have a sense of grace or something when you encounter it. But truth be told, everyone who isn’t taiwanese encounters some form of discrimination here. It’s because we are taiwanese. No different from in the States.

[quote]

  1. And last, but NOT least, how open are Taiwanese men to dating black females? What exactly are the companionship options for a black woman in Taiwan? (It’s not that I’m looking exclusively to date Taiwanese, I just want to know what my options are.)[/quote]

I could count on one hand how many black women i have met here who have had relationships with TW men. It’s not that they are truly opposed to having a relationship with a black woman, it’s the whole dating a foriegner concept that they can’t get around. But since I have met women who have had relationships with some TW, it’s not impossible, just not as easy as it is for the men here. You may have to work at that. :wink:

Best of luck, and pm me if you need help finding things.

Speaking to No. 2 only, I see a handful of black people in my church. They aren’t all American either, I believe a couple of them are from Africa just based on their accents. There’s this one black woman I see quite often in Zhonghe/Yonghe who I don’t recognize anywhere but here.

Regarding #1: I don’t know that people in any particular area are any more or less welcoming… racism is a very real fact of life in Taiwan, but is expressed more through social stigma than anything really virulent. My girlfriend is from a very small mountain village where they now have a black Canadian English teacher (provided through one of the government programs; the town itself could never support a foreign teacher’s salary expectations) and they seem happy to have her. So people in a rural area may be more welcoming out of gratitude, but unless you’re a very solitary, independent, easily amused person with lower-end salary expectations, I’d think twice about going that route.

Second point: yeah, it’s rare to see black persons in Taiwan. Like the others who posted, I bump into someone every couple of weeks… but honestly, each time, I silently salute them for sticking it out.

You may find parts of Japan (maybe Okinawa?), more welcoming. I’m not sure what the work situation is there, but there’s been a massive American military presence on the island for 60 years and as much as most of the islanders want the US out, they’ve grown more accepting of reasonably well behaved foreigners… particularly if you make an effort to learn Japanese and let them know that you’re a teacher. A black classmate of mine taught in Tokyo for 3 or 4 years and had a fantastic time… a few problems, but nothing serious.

The biggest difference that I’ve found between the Taiwan and Japan is that in Taiwan, you can be left alone to make yourself at home (if you can put up with the filth and stupidity), while in Japan it’s easier to be comfortable, but you’re an honoured guest… always and only a guest.

  1. Taichung: I spent a couple of years in Taichung and really enjoyed it. But now I’m loving Taipei so it would take something pretty special to get me to go back. I find that the ease of getting around is one of the great attractions of Taipei: public transit is clean and efficient, and there are sidewalks that you can actually use. You can’t really do either in Taichung; there, the public transit sucks and walking means dodging traffic, and as everything you’ll want to see and do is pretty spread out you’ll need a scooter. I’ve bounced off of enough cars at high speed to be perfectly happy not to spend much time on one again.

Taichung has some natural areas not far off, but little that’s really spectacular is close at hand. West, you can head up to Tung-hai, which used to be pretty enough but is being Very Rapidly developed. The university campus up there is still nice enough, though. North, there’s San-yi, but that’s somewhat further away. East, past Taiping, is great for mountain biking. Parks within the city aren’t terrible, and the statue park is nice.

Taichung will provide most of what you’ll want in terms of Western groceries and nightlife, and the weather is probably the best in Taiwan.

Last point, how open are Taiwanese men to dating black females? What exactly are the companionship options for a black woman in Taiwan?

I don’t know many foreign women (actually two) who have had any luck dating Taiwanese men. Most foreign women don’t find Taiwanese men attractive, and those who do usually don’t find receptive men. (A lot of Taiwanese men have been marrying women from mainland China or Vietnam, and it seems that just about every Taiwanese male finds Japanese women intensely attractive… no luck there for you.)

Most likely, your dating options are going to be minimal. I’ve often heard foreign women complain that 90% of foreign men are dating Taiwanese women, while 90% of the foreign women are single and totally frustrated. Not only that, but many of the foreign guys here may not be much of a catch. Being here can play with a guy’s head. You show up and suddenly there are gorgeous women lining up to enjoy your company, and some of the locals’ culturally conditioned dating expectations can be very appealing… so a lot of guys end up thinking that they’re the cock-of-walk, that they’re a real catch and don’t need to meet the other person halfway.

I think you’ll find that most people will agree on most points regarding your questions… hope you don’t get scared off. Taiwan can be great. It’s frustrating and filthy, but also gives you a freehand to do as you will.

You might also find this guy’s blog useful. I’ve read through much of it and he tends to be right on the money: users2.ev1.net/~turton/teach_index.html#liv

What you have to realize is that Taiwan has no real civil or human rights laws to protect people in Taiwan against racial discrimination. That means both the public and private sectors are free to discriminate on the bases of race, religion or ethnicity with no repercussions for their actions.
Even if modern civil rights laws based on the Universal Declaration of Human Rights were enacted the central government would be unable to enforce them.

I work around Shida university area and see many young black men and women every day. Most likely they are students at the uni.

[quote]
3. I’m hoping to go to a part of Taiwan that is a little less of an urban jungle than New York City (where I live now) or Taipei. Any recommendations? [/quote]

You want to live close to natural areas then Taipei is the place to be, surprisingly. The city is hemmed in by mountains on the north, east and south. I live in the southern part of the city (Muzha) at the end of the MRT line (20 minutes from downtown) and I can be in the mountains hiking in 10 minutes. I can be down jogging or biking on the dikes in 1 minute. Speaking of biking Taipei now has 100km of biking trails along the rivers. Taichung has nothing like that.

Yesterday I finished work early and left home for a hike at 4pm. At 4:15 I was on the trails (no one else, just me) and hiked for almost 3 hours on a wide, clear, natural trail through a lush forest buzzing with noisy cicadas. Got up to 700m and had a magnificent lookout over the city. Talked to an old man who was meditating and then headed down. Explored a small creek near the bottom of the trail that had pure water running off the ridge above. Rinsed myself off in a shallow pool and then headed back home.

Live in Muzha, Xindian, Neihu, Xizhi, Tienmu/Beitou, and you can enjoy both a city and natural life. It’s really the best place to be in Taiwan.

I cannot emphasize picking up as much Chinese as you can before you come. Yes, in Taipei you will not run into as much of a language barrier as you will in smaller cities and towns, but getting the basics will make your experience that much easier.

Unless you have the qualifications to get a job in an international school, you are very likely to run into some snags in finding a job. I would highly suggest that you start your search before you come. It’s already frustrating and tiring enough when you are battling culture shock, jet lag, and disorientation all at the same time. Dealing with rejection just doubles the effect.

I live in downtown Taipei and have an amazing view of the mountains…much better than when I lived in Bitan (Xindian)and the mountains were right outside my door. Good places can be found in the city. And for a country still teetering on third world environmental amenities (lack of clean water, heavy pollution, dirty beaches, etc.), there are an obscene number of beautiful green spaces here within reach of the city or even within the city itself.

In other words, don’t resign yourself to cultural isolation in a small town unless you know you can handle it.

Now for the bad news. As far as black women who have dated Taiwanese men, if I included myself, I could count the ones I know on two fingers. With foreigners, it doesn’t seem to be much better. On the dating totem pole, black women don’t even register above the grass. Believing that dating will happen for you, unless you are drop dead gorgeous, is almost like asking for an emotional kick in the teeth. Looks are heavily relied upon by many men here. If you don’t catch their eye, you don’t stand much of a chance. The easiest way to survive Taiwan is to write off your love life for your duration here.

Other than that, Taiwan, like anything else in life, is what you make of it. Don’t let the bad stuff get you down. If the silver lining doesn’t show itself to you, then you’ve got to shine your light to make your own.

About a week ago I was getting on the MRT and there was a gorgeous black woman waiting for the train in the other direction. Git that I am I went and stood beside her like I was checking out the train schedule or something. Turns out she speaks beautiful Mandarin too and had a whole gang of Taiwanese guys hanging on her every word. God what a treat it was to even see somebody as awesome as that. Absolutely in the moment, happy and full of life… :bouncy:

I have some good news about dating black women in Taiwan.

I knew a few in Taipei who had no trouble getting dates, and were hit on a lot. In fact, much to the amusement of my friends, lots of Chinese/ABC/foreigners/other black men would approach her, try to be all sly and “ghetto” and pretend they’re a brother or some rapstar or worse, wanna-be gangster. This is the somewhat positive side to the popularity of hip-hop/rap: If you’re black, then you’re cool (of course, it helps to look like the people in the MTV videos). Naturally, this only registers with the younger, clubbing crowd. oh wait, I see you’re from NYC. well, you must be cool. :sunglasses: Come to think of it, I met this black woman from NYC who was studying in Taipei for a year before going to China to do UN work or something. I think within a week of arriving, she was in a relationship with some Brit.

The downside is that in many social circles, blacks aren’t on the top of the totem pole as Imaniou put it. it’s “where all the white women at?” (I’m not certain, but the lighter skin black women may be treated differently than darker-skin women, but then again, with the whole white skin fanaticism here, it’s not surprising. Although if you look like Iman, all bets are off. In fact, if you look like Iman, pm me. :wink: )

But good luck in Taiwan. If you hang in the kind of crowd that mixes with and accepts other cultures and ethnicities, I’m sure you’ll do just fine.

I agree with ImaniOU about learning some Chinese before you come here. That goes for anyone thinking of making the trip. You don’t need to be functional, but just having a basis, small as it may be, will help smooth over interactions and win the locals over. Folks here love it when you try to speak Chinese - it’s kind of like France. Well, the big difference is a lot of folks here actually look for foreigners with whom to practice English. :sunglasses:

To add a bit of historical perspective, 10 years ago, I could count on one or two hands the total number of black folks I’d see in Taiwan - OVER THE COURSE OF A YEAR. So, things have changed quite a lot in the last few years.

Yes, there is racism, and a lot of it is just plain ignorance. Just this morning while eating breakfast, I overheard a group of young folks talking about black people. It’s basically ignorance, like you’ll find anywhere. The more outstanding folks like ImaniOU and Miltownkid (and yourself!) come over here, the more that ignorance will be worn down.

It also helps that a lot of young folks idolize black artists and athletes. Plus, the hip hop scene has gotten popular here. Anyway, those are minor things, but every little bit helps to change attitudes. The primary issue is certainly exposure and experience. A lot of foreigners (of every ethnicity) will tell you that in rural parts of Taiwan, you’ll be stared at by some locals. Taipei is by far the most heterogenous city on the island. You might want to consider spending some time here to get used to life in Taiwan.

As far as nice parts of the city, well, as has been mentioned, there are tons of nice areas near the mountains, including Da Zhi, Nei Hu, Shi Lin…long list! They also tend to be cheaper than living downtown.

One really great thing is. well, you’ve already found it - this website. In the good ole days, we were on our own. Now, there’s a really incredible network of foreigners facilitated by sites like this, so there’s ample opportunity to make friends with whom you can just hang out or talk to if you’re having problems adjusting. On top of that, I’ve found it fairly easy to make local friends, especially through hobbies.

Best of luck to you! :slight_smile:

As I said. If you are not a drop dead gorgeous black woman, your chances at dating are slim to none. You know, the only black women I have seen on TV here (the few times I have seen a TV while out of my house), have been the ones in rap videos.

I was going to say something stupid like any race does well here or anywhere if they are gorgeous and that’s true, but there is gorgeous and there is “drop dead gorgeous black woman gorgeous” and it just ain’t the same. The most beautiful human beings I have ever seen were the black women in Belize. The woman I saw on the MRT had that kind of spark. The kind that draws “attention” to itself, from men especially, but women definitely notice it too… Is there a “sigh” icon?

On the nice nature area thing in Taichung, you won’t find much of it. You really have to head the mountains for that or to the East Coast which has a lot of greenery. Maoli isn’t too far away from what you may be looking for either.

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for your responses. They’ve been really helpful–especially some of the PM’s. I’ve actually been quite surprised by the amount on positive feedback on Taipei, both in terms of population diversity and natural beauty!

To let you know a little bit more about me:

I’m living in New York now, but I’ve been traveling my whole life. I went to elementary school in Puerto Rico, so I speak Spanish and I love to salsa dance. It would be nice to be able to make some extra money teaching Spanish and have fun dancing while in Taiwan. I also went to secondary and high school in Vermont; I’m used to being the only black person around, being expected to be the authority on black culture (which is really funny considering I’ve hardly ever known any beyond my own family), and not having a dating life–and I also speak French. In New York, I currently do not have any black friends and spend most of my time volunteering at a Taiwanese Buddhist temple, where I am also studying Mandarin.

I’m looking forward to going to Taiwan because I want to see the homeland of my friends from temple, challenge myself to live in a culture that is very different from anything that I’m used to, and make a lot of money. I also want to get out of New York and get back to that tropical island feel I miss from PR: sun, palm trees, beaches, ocean, exotic plants, slower-paced life. I’m not sure I’m going to get all that in Taiwan, but it doesn’t matter. I’d just like to prepare myself mentally for what I will get–which is why I’m posting to this Forum.

So far, I’m understanding that Taipei may not be such a bad bet for nature walks, seeing other blacks, and interacting with open-minded Taiwanese men. I’m deathly afraid of being on a bike surrounded by cars, so Taichung may not be the place for me. However, I’ve heard that Taipei can also be quite cold and I had enough cold weather to last me a lifetime when I lived in Vermont.

Is Taipei the only place I can get around with public transportation? If so, is there a part of Taipei that’s a bit warmer? Or at least, is it possible to find an apartment with heating?

Lastly, one of you mentioned Maoli. What’s that like?

I was thinking I would go to Taiwan in January and spend 2 or 3 weeks just touring the island before looking for a job. Is that a good idea? Will I be able to find a job that time of year? Or will competition be so fierce in January that I should settle down right away? (I don’t want to come in July because I want to avoid the tax liability.)

Thanks again for all your help! I look forward to reading your responses.

Hi, I’m a black man who has been living in Taipei county for the past five months, also from NYC. Like you, I am used to being the ‘token black’ in a lot of my circles. It wasn’t hard for me to find a job teaching English at all, I had one lined up before coming here. There are schools that will discriminate, but others will not.

I was very much concerned about racism too before coming, and on that front I have good news and bad news. Taiwan so far is more racist than I hoped it would be, but not as bad as I feared it would be. Despite there being few foreigners here, thus meaning we ALL get noticed, you will stand out much more if you’re black. And being black DOES matter to the Taiwanese, you will not be “just another foreigner” I discovered to my dismay. A lot of what you will encounter is simply ignorance, not mean spirited necessarily but still unpleasant. They often just don’t know how to act around dark skinned people, and are deathly afraid of acting inappropriately or making a mistake in public, so prepare to be treated like the invisible woman a bit more than your white counterparts. This also has its advantages, because they won’t clutch their purses or follow you around the grocery store either. Taiwanese have a way of just letting you be, though they will always be watching you from the corner of their eye. On a funny note, “Black! There, there!” in Mandarin sounds a lot like, “Hey ya! Nigga! Nigga!” but don’t be alarmed.

Black folk in Taipei are a rare sight, but they are around. It was two months before I saw another black person since I’ve arrived, and three months before I saw a black woman, but it all depends on where you travel. More often than not black people here seem to be from African nations. As far as urban is concerned, Taipei is every bit the urban jungle that NYC is in many ways, but with LESS nature (I’m from Brooklyn, so YMMV)! I was surprised to find many NYC coping strategies make a perfect fit for Taipei. However, there’s lots of nature surrounding the city, so it won’t be difficult to get away from it.

As far as dating is concerned maybe the better question is to ask yourself is are you open to dating a Taiwanese man? At any rate, all I can tell you is that it’s only the white dudes that have women throwing themselves at them, though I’m told I just haven’t been to the right places yet. I didn’t come to Taiwan to mack it, but I am a guy after all, and it certainly doesn’t help the ego to see women throw themselves at every foreign dude around EXCEPT you. A Korean-American friend of mine finds himself in a similar predicament. Though I’ve seen many white male/taiwanese female couples, I personally know of several foreign women who are dating local men, more so than I know foreign men dating local women in fact, So your prospects in dating may actually be better than mine.

Man, go to Japan. If you really want to come to Taiwan, come to Taipei, like Much Man said. Down south…forget it. I don’t even want to go into it. Taipei…better yet Tokyo.

That’s true :slight_smile: I’ve warned a few students about that to get them to speak English.

“that” is pronounced na ge, but some people pronounce it colloquially as ne ge. If I have students in class I warn them it sounds close to a racist remark to get them to speak English for things when they know English for things.

I remember going to my god of information (google) before coming to Taiwan and finding sites that had opinions ranging from “It’s really hard to get a job” to “It’s a little harder, but not much”. It’s been my experience that the latter is true. When looking, I’ve never spent more than a couple weeks to find a new job.

[quote=“Persephone”]1. I’ve seen some schools advertising for blond, blue-eyed teachers. Will it be difficult for me to get a job? Is there a certain area or type of school I should stay away from? What area is particularly welcoming?

  1. How unusual is it to see a black person in Taiwan? Are there black professionals, teachers there?

  2. I’m hoping to go to a part of Taiwan that is a little less of an urban jungle than New York City (where I live now) or Taipei. Any recommendations? I’ve heard Taichung is nice. Anyone know anything about that city? Does it have a lot of nice nature areas? Does it welcome foreigners of the darker variety?

  3. And last, but NOT least, how open are Taiwanese men to dating black females? What exactly are the companionship options for a black woman in Taiwan? (It’s not that I’m looking exclusively to date Taiwanese, I just want to know what my options are.)[/quote]

  4. As I said above, I don’t think it’ll be much harder (in Taipei). I had a friend of a friend come stay with my for a while that decided to tour the island (and look for jobs) before deciding to work in Taipei and he said he had some strange experiences that were directly related to his skin color.

Now that I think about it, I suppose I’ve had some strange experiences directly related to skin color here in Taipei, but they haven’t been too hindering to my job search.

  1. I bet I see Mormons more than I do Black people. I remember it being months before seeing a “Brotha” for the first time and even longer before I saw a “Sista”. I don’t think about it much anymore though.

and

Yes.

  1. I only know Taipei, so not much to say.

  2. I have no idea.

Because I thought it’d be fun I tried googling information about Blacks teaching in Taiwan (and stuffs likes thats). Interesting…

[quote=“Taipei Times”]DAP-Taiwan is a space for community
COMING TOGETHER: After realizing black people shared many similar challenges in Taiwan, a group was formed where they could meet and talk about their experiences
[/quote]

I am a (Black :slight_smile:) Japanese School Teacher - Not exactly related to Taiwan, but fun to read.

My second choice for a country to teach in is Korea. Why are so many people recommending Japan?