Blackwater given boot after killing Iraqi bystanders

Previously discussed. No surprise.

[quote=“BBC: Iraq shootout firm loses licence”]Iraq has cancelled the licence of the private security firm, Blackwater USA, after it was involved in a gunfight in which at least eight civilians died.

The Iraqi interior ministry said the contractor, based in North Carolina, was now banned from operating in Iraq.

The Blackwater workers, who were contracted by the US state department, apparently opened fire after coming under attack in Baghdad on Sunday.
[…]
All Blackwater personnel have been told to leave Iraq immediately, with the exception of the men involved in the incident on Sunday.

They will have to remain the country and stand trial, the ministry said.

US investigation

The convoy carrying officials from the US state department came under attack at about 1230 local time on Sunday as it passed through Nisoor Square in the predominantly Sunni neighbourhood of Mansour.

The Blackwater security guards accompanying the convoy returned fire, killing eight people and wounding 13 others, Iraqi officials said.

Most of the dead and wounded were bystanders, the officials added. One of those killed was a policeman.

A spokesman for the US embassy in Baghdad later confirmed its security vehicles had been involved in the gunfight.

“They received small arms fire. One of the vehicles was disabled in the shooting and had to be towed from the scene,” he said.

“The incident is being investigated by department of state diplomatic security service law enforcement officials in co-operation with the government of Iraq and multinational forces.”

Blackwater has not yet commented on the incident.[/quote]

Good. Fuckin cowboys.

Good riddance.

Blackwater is ironically one of the better run ones (according to hearsay). I was wondering when something like this was going to happen. What do you do with armed ‘civilians’ in a combat zone?

Could have a chilling effect on all of the other firms. Who’s going to guard all of the convoys now?

JD, without private contractors your country’s war efforts don’t stand a chance. Get rid of the private guys and your troops are going to have to fill the rolls they now play. Given estimates are anywhere from 30,000-100,000 private contractors, there goes the surge. There goes everything unless you want a draft.

[color=blue]Give Blackwater the boot? On whose authority? Who does the Iraqi government think it is, anyway?[/color]

“‘We are taking it very seriously indeed,’ (Embassy spokeswoman Mirembe Nantongo) said. 'We certainly regret any loss of life associated with this incident.”

Embassy officials would not say whether Blackwater had suspended its work in Baghdad after the Interior Ministry’s decision. W. Johann Schmonsees, another embassy spokesman, said, ‘No one has been expelled from the country yet.’

It was not immediately clear whether Iraq or the United States holds the authority to regulate Blackwater’s operations. A regulation known as Order 17 established under the U.S.-led Coalition Provisional Authority headed by L. Paul Bremer effectively granted immunity to American private security contractors from being prosecuted in Iraqi courts.

Another CPA memorandum requires private security companies to register with the Interior Ministry, but some of the companies in Iraq operate without doing so.

Lawrence T. Peter, director of the Private Security Company Association of Iraq, said Blackwater was licensed by the Interior Ministry. But Blackwater acknowledged as recently as two months ago that a license it obtained in 2005 had lapsed, and the company was having trouble getting the license renewed.

[color=blue](And the money quote.)[/color]

‘Many Iraqis have come to me and complained bitterly to me about CPA Order 17, I understand that," said Peter. "But the fact that you complain bitterly doesn’t mean you can wave a magic wand and change it.’"

Washington Post

Have you read about how these guys are handling themselves? Speeding motorcades through the streets, emptying weapons on civilians who get too close, and generally carrying on like it is a wild west freeforall that they get paid 100k a year to do.

fuck them.

Who’s going to do their job? Pay Iraqis 100k a year and you’ll find LOTS of loyal able bodied men and women. Glory or money? You think Iraqis are so different?

I’m in favor of cutting out the middleman as well. We should just pay the Iraqis a $100K per year to shoot themselves and be done with it.

[quote=“jdsmith”]Good. Fuckin cowboys.[/quote]HEY!..I resemble that remark…well, except for the “F*ckin” part…I’m married now.

Its Iraq right to curtail the involvement of any or all of the private contractor companies. Nothing uncommon or unexpected by this move.
These operators, while they may be contracted by a foreign national government or civilian business group, work at the allowance of the Iraqi government. They have the ‘Yay’ or Nay’ to their operations.
If they decide that they can provide the needed security for the groups who previously used these contractors then good for them.
If this leads to a problem with increased attacks by terrorists and a climate that is unworkable for those who used these services…well…these groups will react accordingly.

Its Iraqs’ call. We’ll see what the result of this will be. For better, which is what I hope for, or for worse.

Have you read about how these guys are handling themselves? Speeding motorcades through the streets, emptying weapons on civilians who get too close, and generally carrying on like it is a wild west freeforall that they get paid 100k a year to do.

fuck them.

Who’s going to do their job? Pay Iraqis 100k a year and you’ll find LOTS of loyal able bodied men and women. Glory or money? You think Iraqis are so different?[/quote]

Don’t get me wrong, I agree with your sentiments entirely about the worthlessness of these individuals. My point was that getting rid of private contractors will change the nature of this war, and no, I don’t think it is reasonable to assume that Iraqis can be trained for the job in large enough numbers. Sure you might get lots of able bodied men interested in the positions, but how many would not then use that position to push sectarian interests (ie, kill others)? Not many as we have seen with the police force and army. You can’t just hire anybody to do security, and by hiring only those loyal to the sect of the person they are safe-guarding you reinforce the split in society that is the cause of all troubles in Iraq (outside Al Qaeda’s work). You also unwittingly train and arm groups who can act as deadly sectarian militias.

Not a very rosy outcome and it wouldn’t surprise me if the Iraqi gov is pushing this in part to reduce the number of outside forces in Iraq so they are in a better position to push their interests. This was after all in a Sunni neighborhood.

Like anything privately run, some are well run, some are not.

Let’s hold our collective breath and see how far this actually goes. My bet is that nothing happens since much of the country requires the contractors to operate.

I believe there are even certain Iraq officials that get their security from non-Iraqi contractors.

Just saw this on CNN.
They are reporting that there are more US civilian contractors (around 180,000) than US troops (120-160,000) in Iraq.

Bush has a very interesting approach. No draft required, just money.

If these contractors are trouble, then the problem is BIG.

[quote=“Truant”]Just saw this on CNN.
They are reporting that there are more US civilian contractors (around 180,000) than US troops (120-160,000) in Iraq.

Bush has a very interesting approach. No draft required, just money.

If these contractors are trouble, then the problem is BIG.[/quote]

How many of those 180k are security contractors and how many are dishwashers and wrench turners?

By the reaction of some, you’d think we’re talking about Executive Options as opposed to a company with 800 million in US Gov. contracts.

[quote=“Elegua”][quote=“Truant”]Just saw this on CNN.
They are reporting that there are more US civilian contractors (around 180,000) than US troops (120-160,000) in Iraq.

Bush has a very interesting approach. No draft required, just money.

If these contractors are trouble, then the problem is BIG.[/quote]

How many of those 180k are security contractors and how many are dishwashers and wrench turners?

By the reaction of some, you’d think we’re talking about Executive Options as opposed to a company with 800 million in US Gov. contracts.[/quote]
The implication on CNN was they are security contractors. You’d sure want a decent wage to wash dishes in Iraq.

[quote=“Truant”][quote=“Elegua”][quote=“Truant”]Just saw this on CNN.
They are reporting that there are more US civilian contractors (around 180,000) than US troops (120-160,000) in Iraq.

Bush has a very interesting approach. No draft required, just money.

If these contractors are trouble, then the problem is BIG.[/quote]

How many of those 180k are security contractors and how many are dishwashers and wrench turners?

By the reaction of some, you’d think we’re talking about Executive Options as opposed to a company with 800 million in US Gov. contracts.[/quote]
The implication on CNN was they are security contractors. You’d sure want a decent wage to wash dishes in Iraq.[/quote]

VOA as quoted by globalsecurity.org says

That is consistent with what I’ve read elsewhere. My guess is that the biggest lump falls into the last category. Blackwater is a very high-end form of armed guards.

From today’s NY Times on the same topic nytimes.com/2007/09/18/world … ref=slogin

Also, this is NOT the first time a Blackwater employee has negligently killed an Iraq and avoided any legal repercussions.

I’m sure there are LOTS of other examples.

I hope this gives the Iraqis a sense of self determination. Flush these turds away.

Tough to flush. As I recall, there was a specific law or clause foisted on the Iraqis stipulating that these mercenary groups were beyond the reach of local law. As they also operate outside of military law, it’s caused a few headaches in the past. Add to that the fact that Blackwater alone has a US$300 million contract with the State Dept., has been guarding very highly visible targets (Bremer, at one point), and that business would immediately dry up if any of their primaries were offed, and you get a very bad mix: no authorities holding them responsible, jittery competitive market pressures, shit loads of testosterone and ammo, and very rich pay packages.

It’ll be very interesting to see how this shakes out.

It’s more than that. As the article I refer to states,

I am a subscriber to the Blackwater e-newsletter. In their latest circulation dated Sept 17, no mention is made to the problem. In fact, it states specifically that “the enemy’s loosing”. The article which links to the New York Post states nypost.com/php/pfriendly/pri … losing.htm

[quote]
How is the enemy doing? The facts on the ground are that the two chief enemies of the new Iraq - the groups wearing the al Qaeda label and the Iran-backed Shiite militias - are not doing well. Indeed, one might say that both have already lost their bids for power and, the continued killings notwithstanding, are in the process of marginalization.[/quote]

It all reminds me of the quote attributed to a US Marine commander in the battle for Hue, Vietnam that “We had to destroy the city to save it.” It’s as if the war-folk hadn’t noticed that the whole place has been wrecked. There is no more Iraq.

And the thing is that back when this all started, there were people saying this would unfold exactly as it has.

Order 17, though it could just as well have been called Catch 22.