This story appeared in the Taipei Times in the quick takes section on October 31st. I did not see this topic discussed on this board. Moderator, please put this post in its place if it has.
SOCIETY
Arsenal blast victim dies
One of the eight people injured in an ordinance blast in Yilan County on Friday passed away after her family had her discharged from the hospital against medical advice, the hospital said. Lin Hsiu-mei (林秀鎂), sustained multiple organ failure and burns covering 90 percent of her body, according to the Tri-Service General Hospital in Taipei, where the blast victims were being treated. Lin was sent home to Jiaosi Township (礁溪), Yilan County, in an ambulance accompanied by an attendant and a physician on Friday evening after her family signed off on her release from the hospital’s intensive care ward, the hospital said.
I’m a little nervous that family members here in Taiwan (who really have too heavy a burden taking care of relatives in the hospital) can just over-ride doctors orders and have any patient discharged to a place where the patient is certainly not going to get the required care.
Was this perhaps an example of a person very close to death being discharged so they can die at home?
It’s fairly common here, but I’ve not heard of it happening when doctors have voiced their opposition. Usually the doctors agree that the case is hopeless and make arrangements so the person can “die at home.” In some cases (I have been told by doctors and nurses) the person dies before reaching their home (sometimes even before leaving the hospital) but the doctor (who in many cases travels in the ambulance) does not declare and certify death until the patient is tucked up in his bed at home, to maintain the fiction that “he died at home, surrounded by his family.”
It’s said that if you die far from home, you may haunt that place, unless Taoist priests or Buddhist monks are engaged to call you home. Would you want to spend the rest of eternity wandering around a great big hospital?
[quote=“StevenCrook”]Was this perhaps an example of a person very close to death being discharged so they can die at home?
It’s fairly common here, but I’ve not heard of it happening when doctors have voiced their opposition. Usually the doctors agree that the case is hopeless and make arrangements so the person can “die at home.” In some cases (I have been told by doctors and nurses) the person dies before reaching their home (sometimes even before leaving the hospital) but the doctor (who in many cases travels in the ambulance) does not declare and certify death until the patient is tucked up in his bed at home, to maintain the fiction that “he died at home, surrounded by his family.”
It’s said that if you die far from home, you may haunt that place, unless Taoist priests or Buddhist monks are engaged to call you home. Would you want to spend the rest of eternity wandering around a great big hospital?[/quote]
That’s the reason. Common enough in the UK, too.
That’s the reason. Common enough in the UK, too.[/quote]
Really! Never heard that from my mother (NHS nurse from c. 1960 to 2001). But I can believe it.[/quote]
Sometimes, some things are so commonplace, no one mentions it. Happens to me all the time.
We signed out my father in law on his deathbed so he could die at the new house he’d just had built back in his home town (his branch of the family had moved to Taipei in the 1970s and all his brothers and sisters and family stayed in Changhua). He died in the ambulance. :s
My wife knows that I absolutely do not wish to die in a hospital and to take me home. Same with her.
I mean no disrespect to people who have beliefs or feelings on how they should pass on.
How does it matter?? I mean if you’re old and sick and you know you’re going to die, I can imagine you having preferences, but people alive and kicking wanting to have control over where they die?? Is it possible?? Isn’t it too presumptuous? For me, most of the time I have no control over where I am living, or where I’ll live. We’ve never talked about this, but it is implicit in our marriage, that we will do what we deem best in the moment. I mean if I say I want to die at home and I die in the ambulance instead or whatever, my husband will live out his life in guilt for not fulfilling my last wish. I wouldn’t want to place such a burden on anyone I love.
I really don’t mind dying anywhere, and what they do with my remains, burn, electrocute, throw me over the hill or bury is all their wish. I am just content TRYING to live my life, the way I want to. In death and afterlife, I’ll hopefully have handed the reins to someone else.
Seen it first hand in Canada. As long as there is a waiver, family is free to do what they want in most countries. Forget the USA, their word doesn’t count for shit. Why would you be surprised if you don’t want your loved one to die peacefully at home, is there anything wrong with that?
Here’s the issue… This person was hurt in a terrible accident. The burns were extensive, yes. But, at this point could you guarantee that this person would or would not recover under treatment? The doctors did not want to discharge this person. This person was still in ICU. My mother in law tragically passed away from cancer last year.
It was clear to everyone that the hospital could not provide any “life saving” help. The choice was given to go home. My brother was involved in a bad car accident back in the states. He was touch and go for a while. He has a long uncertain recovery. They still can’t make certain decisions about his health care until they “wait and see”.
I’m worried about this factor. Disabled people here in Taiwan don’t seem to have the same value, My students are amazed to see disabled people doing normal jobs and living normal lives when I show them documentaries.
Actually, I should say… were. I’ve been here for years. I’ve recently seen a lot a more disabled people being mainstreamed in the Junior/Senior HS’s then before. They seem to treated normally their non disabled peers. So perhaps things have changed with the youth.
But again my concern. Discharge against doctors advice… Not good. Discharged because the doctor said “There is nothing else we could do, we could just make the person comfortable… you may want to take the patient home…” That is not happy news, but reasonable.
That’s the reason. Common enough in the UK, too.[/quote]
Really! Never heard that from my mother (NHS nurse from c. 1960 to 2001). But I can believe it.[/quote]
My thoughts exactly. Never heard of it but not exactly surprised by it. On a similar note Douglas Coupland in one of his novels mentions that no one has been declared dead in the grounds of Disney. If they die in the grounds the Doc waits until they’re outside before they sign the death cert. Evil Disney!!
if you can’t burden those you love most, then who should you burden with such a crucial issue? [/quote]
Hmmm, but it’s not crucial to me. I don’t want to be a burden in death, I am one huge one alive
if you can’t burden those you love most, then who should you burden with such a crucial issue? [/quote]
Hmmm, but it’s not crucial to me. I don’t want to be a burden in death, I am one huge one alive [/quote]
I doubt that, but I don’t know if we’re talking about the same thing. I’m thinking death is an event that plays out over, hopefully a short period of time…you?
if you can’t burden those you love most, then who should you burden with such a crucial issue? [/quote]
Hmmm, but it’s not crucial to me. I don’t want to be a burden in death, I am one huge one alive [/quote]
I doubt that, but I don’t know if we’re talking about the same thing. I’m thinking death is an event that plays out over, hopefully a short period of time…you?[/quote]
Exactly. It’s so short a while, that in the course of one’s life, it’s an insignificantly short event. To plan, for it, or to strive to make it perfect or even spend time fretting about it is pointless.
Yet I know, people have bought land for their burial and chosen the colour of their coffin etc. Whatever I guess.
[quote=“Taiwan_Student”]This story appeared in the Taipei Times in the quick takes section on October 31st. I did not see this topic discussed on this board. Moderator, please put this post in its place if it has.
SOCIETY
Arsenal blast victim dies
One of the eight people injured in an ordinance blast in Yilan County on Friday passed away after her family had her discharged from the hospital against medical advice, the hospital said. Lin Hsiu-mei (林秀鎂), sustained multiple organ failure and burns covering 90 percent of her body, according to the Tri-Service General Hospital in Taipei, where the blast victims were being treated. Lin was sent home to Jiaosi Township (礁溪), Yilan County, in an ambulance accompanied by an attendant and a physician on Friday evening after her family signed off on her release from the hospital’s intensive care ward, the hospital said.
I’m a little nervous that family members here in Taiwan (who really have too heavy a burden taking care of relatives in the hospital) can just over-ride doctors orders and have any patient discharged to a place where the patient is certainly not going to get the required care.
In the States, wouldn’t the State intervene?[/quote]
90% burns is a death sentence as far as I know. The Doctor was being merciful and kind to the family , good Doctor.
Quite. It was unbelievably cruel to keep her alive for even a few minutes in that condition. They should have let her die at the scene, or maybe helped her along a little. What I want to know is - HTF did they manage to cause that explosion in the first place? I mean, seriously, HOW? All modern explosives are extremely stable; they don’t blow unless you actually insert and/or arm the detonator. So who was the mouthbreather who did that, and will we ever find out?
They were Taiwanese-made flash grenades. They were being destroyed by Taiwanese military and contract workers. Enough said, surely?
Shhh! There’s face involved. It was nothing more than a tragic and totally unforeseen accident. Could have happened to ANYONE!
Oh FFS. I wish I hadn’t asked. Someone ought to go to jail for negligence.
The Chinese military have probably been laughing their bollocks off over this incident and making jokes about how they just need to wait for the Taiwanese to blow themselves up … no need to invade.
What an awful way to go, though. A flash grenade is full of magnesium powder and suchlike, no? It’s basically an incendiary device rather than an explosive.
Anyone with crap for brains, certainly. But yeah, I’m sure “face” considerations will ensure little more is said, victims are quietly paid off, and no lessons will be learned.
Oh FFS. I wish I hadn’t asked. Someone ought to go to jail for negligence.
The Chinese military have probably been laughing their bollocks off over this incident and making jokes about how they just need to wait for the Taiwanese to blow themselves up … no need to invade.
What an awful way to go, though. A flash grenade is full of magnesium powder and suchlike, no? It’s basically an incendiary device rather than an explosive.
Anyone with crap for brains, certainly. But yeah, I’m sure “face” considerations will ensure little more is said, victims are quietly paid off, and no lessons will be learned.[/quote]
Only the dead ones get compensation – or rather their families. The others only get their medical bills paid. Gotta LOVE that, eh?
[quote=“sandman”][
Only the dead ones get compensation – or rather their families. The others only get their medical bills paid. Gotta LOVE that, eh?[/quote]
Which, I guess, would happen work place accident. Regardless, with NHS the costs would not be a fortune as it would in the US.
Has negligence been established? Get some Taiwanese law student studying in America to watch daytime TV. I’m really surprised the Taiwanese business person hasn’t caught on to the profitability of those personal injury lawsuits. You know… you pay nothing unless you win. If you do, just pay 1/3 plus expenses…
That’ll learn them… But maybe the Taiwanese would take the concept too far…then us Americans had.
This was a tragic event. I really think there should not have been any contractors working on such an job. At least… Taiwanese contractors. …
