Blocking out the reality of Taiwan

Taiwan Living in Taiwan
1

Reading a post the other day on the “good days and bad days” we have in Taiwan made me think.

I would suggest that the good days are just when something “normal” happens to us that makes us feel human, and that Taiwan is something less awful than hell on earth …

Seems like most foreigners who decided to stay in Taiwan are in denial of the reality, they sink into their shell and become antisocial because it’s the only way to survive, and hide from the reality- that Taiwan is a brutally materialistic, dehumanising, superficial, nervous, and highly stressful country to live in.

I met a person on this forum who is Taiwanese born but grew up abroad, has cancer and returned to Taiwan for treatment. Due to chemotherapy she has lost her hair. She is often approached by people on the streets who ask her cruel questions such as “are you a girl or a boy” ? What kind of society treats people in this way ? Any variation from the norm is questioned or mocked. I know a Taiwanese woman in Kenting, who pregnant and loves to swim in the sea, but feels uncomfortable to go because she is always stared at.

Do you wonder why you don’t see disabled people out and about, or on TV, in Taiwan ?

Individual thinking and expression is impossible in this society where group mentality rules.

Foreigners who walk the streets here do so with their faces down or away to avoid any human contact and the reminder of the reality that would bring. Compare that to the expat population in places like Hong Kong, who are confident and relaxed.

Yes, there are worse places to live, perhaps China or Korea, but it doesn’t make Taiwan good. Newcomers to Taiwan will be told that the people are friendly and welcoming, sure they are but only superficially, after a while we all realise that it’s just a facade.

Would like to hear your thoughts. Taiwanophiles can tell me to go home if I don’t like it here- I would love to go home, I’m only here to be with my little son, so as I see it I’m entitled to make any comment I like.

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wow, your life sucks

3 Likes
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Some of us are actually looking for discarded chewing gum stuck to the pavement. There are some good chews left in those things you know.
Seriously, I’m sorry you’re having such a shitty time. Glad I’m not you.

4

I replied before, but computers ate it.

Take it easy. Sometimes it’s hard to live in a place where everything seems wrong yet you have to stay. Try and focus on the good reasons you’re there: your kid!

Taiwan can be a shithole. In 2000 I’d come from Bangkok, which I loved, and I compared Taipei to there all the time. I went through a bad stage between 9-18 months. I hated the food, the people, the culture, the stupid fucks outside my house with firecrackers, the fighting KTV hostesses at 4am outside my window, the creepy religion, the stink of the filthy duck shop full of rats, my lying c*** of a school manager, the mental south African and British whackjobs I shared the teacher’s room with, my cretinous ‘ex’, the weather, pearl milk tea, dofu, betel nut, the housing, the transportation, immigration, scooters, bratty kids, redneck pushy parents, flashcards, reward stickers and plastic fruit, working in a poky ‘legal’ ‘school’ in a carpark of a love hotel in the outskirts of Panchiao, the rats, mosquitoes and spiders, casual racism, the boring bars and clubs with no good music, the ugly clothes that didn’t fit, the cockroaches, the hospitals/doctors and above all, just the sheer tedium of the place.

Then one day it just lifted. Why? Taiwan didn’t change… I’d just made more friends, both ‘deep’ and ‘superficial’. I learned a bit of Chinese. I started shopping and cooking my own food more and drank less. It just all became ‘normal’ and OK, and it stopped bothering me that things weren’t how I wanted. I learned how to make my own space and quiet, without isolating myself. I periodically got sick of it again, and after seven years i left because I loathe and detest teaching in Taiwan and was a long way from PARC-time. But most of the time, I was fairly happy, and I know I’ll always miss living in Taiwan. I could write a much longer list of things I love about Taiwan, but it’s really not important. If you feel OK, you’ll make your own fun.

You may never love it here. I know I’ll never be truly settled and at home in southern England. But I can tolerate it to achieve my wider goals. On the surface, everything is perfect, and it looks like I walked away from Taiwan into my ‘dream life’, but I still feel restless and pissed off in England (I could write a hate-list about the south of England too): kind of how I felt in Taiwan after the same period of time.

Sorry if this seems dismissive, as if I’m saying, ‘Oh, it’s only culture shock, it’s not real’: that’s not my intention. Keep venting here, if it helps!

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[quote=“pg171”]
Seems like most foreigners who decided to stay in Taiwan are in denial of the reality, they sink into their shell and become antisocial because it’s the only way to survive, and hide from the reality- that Taiwan is a brutally materialistic, dehumanising, superficial, nervous, and highly stressful country to live in.[/quote]

All true. This place, Taiwan, is probably less superficial than several developed countries, like the US, and Europe. Oh yes, it can be stressful, far more than we grew up with.
The place also has something. Convenience, kind & polite and supportive people, “high-through-put time” on -typically for us- red tape issues. Eg., lose your ARC here, in 2 days you will have a new one. In the UK I think it would take 6 weeks, at 3~4x the cost.
To name a few perks: food is excellent here, health care & transportation are so cheap, and - more importantly - you have all the freedom to think, read, listen, see and act the way you do, without judgment or challenge. It is not all bad.

And also it is not all good. The paradox between the need to be “well connected” (I mean relation management, kwan xi) as precondition to success, and being surrounded by “superficial” people - keeps us confused… just as so many other cultural differences can make us feel misunderstood and small.

Good luck !

6

There is a reason why every day there is a long line of people in front of the American Enterprise Institute looking to go somewhere else. When I took my TW gf to USA, she was surprised to see that even the bums on the street still “have their dignity” because people still give them a level of respect and consideration. She said that consideration - for someone without money - doesn’t exist in TW.

My uncle is a doctor and went to an isolated village in Zimbabwe to work with Doctors Without Borders. One morning he came out and all the men were gone. At night they came back - now in a great mood, whooping and cheering. He asked why they were so happy and was told that the men had just come back from the neighboring village where they slaughtered all the men. He asked, “why did they do that?” The reply was, “if we had not done that to them today, they would be here tomorrow doing the same.”

There are worse places than TW.

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The only time I block out reality in Taiwan is when I think about how I could be KTV hostess.

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You use such…so… strong words… You hurt people who lives in Taiwan. :cry:
Taiwan is not that bad. You always can find warm, social, acquisitive, humanizing, essential and calm places if you can observe patiently and are willing to changed your perspective.

How long have you been here? Give Taiwan and yourself a little bit of time. You will love Taiwan. Don’t always stay in Metropolis and urban areas. Go to countryside with your vacation. Suggest you a special accommodation in “Fo Guang Shan monastery” for one night and one vegetarian breakfast. Try it if you like.

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Me too!

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Well I’ll say I can relate to your frustration.

I’ve been here a couple years, and I don’t plan on staying more than a couple more. That isn’t to say I don’t appreciate a lot of things about living here, or don’t see/can’t find the negatives living somewhere else. Cost of living here is great, I appreciate having a good job at a good school, and I met my GF here…I’ve actually never been happier. It’s also safe and relatively friendly. Oh and healthcare.

If I may take a stab at the main point you’re trying to make…it’s that social life/behavior here wears you down. Perhaps it gets to some more than others, but I’m one of those people who puts it way ahead of things like food when it comes to ranking things of importance in my environment.

This isn’t meant to be a venting comment, just an observational one. Whether it’s being cut in front of in line by someone who pretends he/she doesn’t see you, or being pushed from behind by shopping carts in line (happened twice to me in the last 2 days), or being gawked at (not out of curiosity), or called at from across the street to make someone else giggle, or talked up by someone who inevitably just wants to learn english from you, or finding a place of business that tries to rip you off (I can show you 2 just outside my apartment)…well you get the point. There’s a lot of boorish/selfish behaviour here…the kind that makes it pretty hard to go out and do your business and be left alone sometimes. I can deal with it, but that’s not much of an endorsement. It’s a pretty soulless place to reside in at times.

There are some really great people here as well, of course, but their numbers are too low for my taste, whatever that number is.

Anyway, I don’t plan on changing Taiwan, and neither should you. Just carve out a niche where you can be as comfortable as possible and work with what you’ve got.

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Yes, I also hate the friggin sh_th_le, but I almost gave a cynical nasty reply because I made myself comfortable here, with dog saving, watching TV at home [just tried to write more but couldn’t really find more].

Yeah, but what does it help to nag about it. They like their island dirty, filthy, loud, nervous and full of delicious noodle soup served next to sewer-smelling streets. I accept it as long as I am here, which is probably long because of wife.

I kinda like it sometimes, but after 5 years I feel like I am stuck in “Lawrence from Arabia” only with Chinatown instead and after 5 hours the damned movie still goes on and on… It’s not bad, but sooooo long

:blah: Wait… no time for whining. Wife said we must become rich and I have work to do and dogs to save. And TV to downl… ah … record.

Good we talked about it. :eh:

12

Halloha,

The problem is not Taiwan. It is this poster. He (?) is unhappy and can’t see the beauty of Taiwan or the warmth of its wonderful people. I guess I must be a foreigner who is in denial of reality after 20 years in Taiwan. :slight_smile:

Of course if he lives in Chungli, I understand … (just kidding, well sort of…).

[quote=“Halloha”][quote=“pg171”]
Seems like most foreigners who decided to stay in Taiwan are in denial of the reality, they sink into their shell and become antisocial because it’s the only way to survive, and hide from the reality- that Taiwan is a brutally materialistic, dehumanising, superficial, nervous, and highly stressful country to live in.
[/quote]

You use such…so… strong words… You hurt people who lives in Taiwan. :cry:
Taiwan is not that bad. You always can find warm, social, acquisitive, humanizing, essential and calm places if you can observe patiently and are willing to changed your perspective.

How long have you been here? Give Taiwan and yourself a little bit of time. You will love Taiwan. Don’t always stay in Metropolis and urban areas. Go to countryside with your vacation. Suggest you a special accommodation in “Fo Guang Shan monastery” for one night and one vegetarian breakfast. Try it if you like.[/quote]

13

[quote=“pg171”]Reading a post the other day on the “good days and bad days” we have in Taiwan made me think.

I would suggest that the good days are just when something “normal” happens to us that makes us feel human, and that Taiwan is something less awful than hell on earth …

Seems like most foreigners who decided to stay in Taiwan are in denial of the reality, they sink into their shell and become antisocial because it’s the only way to survive, and hide from the reality- that Taiwan is a brutally materialistic, dehumanising, superficial, nervous, and highly stressful country to live in.

I met a person on this forum who is Taiwanese born but grew up abroad, has cancer and returned to Taiwan for treatment. Due to chemotherapy she has lost her hair. She is often approached by people on the streets who ask her cruel questions such as “are you a girl or a boy” ? What kind of society treats people in this way ? Any variation from the norm is questioned or mocked. I know a Taiwanese woman in Kending, who pregnant and loves to swim in the sea, but feels uncomfortable to go because she is always stared at.

Do you wonder why you don’t see disabled people out and about, or on TV, in Taiwan ?

Individual thinking and expression is impossible in this society where group mentality rules.

Foreigners who walk the streets here do so with their faces down or away to avoid any human contact and the reminder of the reality that would bring. Compare that to the expat population in places like Hong Kong, who are confident and relaxed.

Yes, there are worse places to live, perhaps China or Korea, but it doesn’t make Taiwan good. Newcomers to Taiwan will be told that the people are friendly and welcoming, sure they are but only superficially, after a while we all realise that it’s just a facade.

Would like to hear your thoughts. Taiwanophiles can tell me to go home if I don’t like it here- I would love to go home, I’m only here to be with my little son, so as I see it I’m entitled to make any comment I like.[/quote]

Go home if you don’t like it here!!!
Just kidding.
I can’t really find anything in your post to disagree with.
Don’t listen to Buttercup, she’s retarded.
And Snadman is probably drunk, I think he posted from work, so yeah, he’s probably drunk.
It pretty much is all crap here, and I can certainly vouch for the fact that the deeper you burrow in, the worse it gets.
Everyone has their own reasons for being here, some reasonable ones do include:

I try to do my time and not judge others, but I sure can’t blame anyone who’s fuckin miserable.
One thing that’s important to note is that not everyone who hates it here is saying things are better elsewhere, a lot of us consider that it’s going to be a shithole anywhere you go, at least there’s no fucking snow in this shithole…
On the other hand, I mean would it fucking kill them to get Cheez Whiz in the shop???

14

I’ve been living here very contentedly for many years, and I’m pretty sure I’m not in denial about anything. The only reason I’ve been feeling more than usually cranky about things lately is that I have a baby who wakes me up many times every night and whose needs prevent my getting out and doing the things I enjoyed so much pre-parenthood. But I know better than to blame Taiwan or the Taiwanese for that.

If you’ve got all or most of the essential parts of your life satisfactorily in place – home, livelihood, family and/or friends, recreation, purposes, etc. – then the positives in the general environment ought to be more than enough to substantially outweigh the negatives most of the time.

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I think Taipei city is a shithole. It staggers the mind. I think the analogy to hell is actually not too far wrong.

If there were a hell I’m pretty sure it would look something like SanChong or Yunghe (that’s a pretty evil little rat infested hole). I live in Neihu, it’s OK. It’s for people who have only committed venial sins in their previous lives but couldn’t give two hoots about them so they’re not in God’s good graces. It’s more like the edge of hell and full of people who haven’t an idea what they’re doing (e.g., me) and who struggle to take personal responsibility seriously (e.g., me). Those pricks in SanChong and Yunghe though they’re more your mortal sin types. They’re the types who refused to pay their rents in previous lives, the traitors. Traitors to God (your Judases), traitors to their own countries (bleedin expats, and waishengren), traitors against their own families (an especially scornful crime in Chinese society), and traitors to their guests (those pricks that cut the cue at the post office. There’s stacks of 'em and that’s why Yunghe and Sanchong are the two biggest population centers on the planet).

I’m sorry for your depression. One should expect it in Hell. The best way to cope is to think of it all like some kind of a divine comedy, or such. It makes it easier to laugh it off and hopefully move on.

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DANG! Your life in Taiwan sounds bluddy oreful mate! You gotta adapt or get the hell out! Oh, try my boerewors before you do! :wink:

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pg171

It’s hard to disagree with most of the criticisms you make of Taiwan.Reading your past posts I can see you have had a hell of a time dealing with the Taiwan legal system, and trying to gain custody of your child. Anyway, I hope it all has a happy ending for you and you can put it all behind you.

You have already got some good advice on this thread (and the inevitable snide comments!) so I hope it helps you.

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I’ve already explained how Taiwan has destroyed me and turned me into a hollow shell… but some people in this thread will get turned on about hearing about it, so I’ll stop.

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You make some valid points, especially about treatment of sick, disadvantaged, animals or of people ‘who look different’. There’s a long way to go. Still, we must understand that the society here is changing, things have improved measurably and these attitudes are better here than most of Asia and large parts of the world. It’s not the same as the countries that we come from…that has to be accepted. These are all balanced by the other good points - safety, food, friendliness, freedom, health care… As Buttercup says the feelings can change according to your work, living and relationship conditions…

20

I think the OP is right. You need a certain amount of denial to live here relatively at peace. Otherwise, you become one of those bitter foreigners who unload their fury at the drop of a hat.

A friend called this “the Fantasy Island”. Adventures? Got’em. Travel? Anywhere. Money and job? Easy. Sex? Aplenty.

Ah, but if you want: Estability? What, stay here, you barbarian, no way! Love? Hard to trust people. Career? You are a fax machine, period. Regurgitate what we want or else out you go.

And yet many people do find them, in spite of teh odds. Locals know more about “walking the line” than we do.

This means you do have to ride with the flow, find your own Idaho, a happy spot, to keep you happy and calm. Find positive friends, learn which battles are worth fighting, which should be let go. Do not sweat the small stuff. Otherwise, without roots, without support, you’ll be like a wind chime, making noise at the slighest change in wind. God knows we have plenty of tests to sanity here.

My consolation is that no matter how bad it gets here, I just need to open my birth country’s paper or talk to someone there. It could be worse. Much worse. (especially when it comes to dealing with disabled people).

And yes, I do not ask too many questions as to why Taiwan has so many thinsg that could be so much better.