BMW M3:High Performance car OR Race car
I do wonder why someone would buy a fine German piece of engineering only to go drag racing with it?
I do wonder why someone would buy a fine German piece of engineering only to go drag racing with it?[/quote]
To crash it …
Let me rephrase that…
I do wonder why someone would buy a fine German piece of Engineering only to drag race and drift with it? Mind boggling stuff when there are far cheaper cars to do this with for the same result…unless these disciplines were the design goals of BMW’s M devision when drawing up the M3, M5 and M6?..I may be wrong here…ze Germans might have a penchant for ze drifting…
My poor old Subaru sucks enough balls…it only cost me just over a million dollars (nt)…it just can’t compete with a three million+ M3 in terms of broken parts costs at the end of the day. He wins without a race. :bravo:
about the OP. Has anyone seen REAL plans for the track itself?
Ouin, ca marche pas d’meme dude. I think that your view of fun is A)peeling away from every light in town to get noticed and B) destroying your car doing something it wasn’t intended to do, but doing it with the full intent of breaking it and thus getting to brag about huge repair bills at the end of the day.
My WRX is not a race car by any means. It’s just a sporty Jap econobox hatch with a decent powertrain in it. I have fun with it more often than you’d think, and I sure as heck don’t see the need to gain acceptance with the ‘money is no object so I destroy it’ crowd by putting it on a track that has a worse surface than the worst road in Baghdad. It’s a street car, and that’s where I drive it. Bottom line is that you are buying toys which you view as disposable, whereas my car serves the greater purpose of getting me and my family around. I prefer a Subaru over a Volkswagen or Nissan or Mitsubishi or Honda or Toyota or whatever. Should every GTI owner be tracking and drag racing his or her car? If I had more disposable income and plenty of free time, i’d build a cheap track car out of a civic and thrash it out on the track every chance i’d get. Besides, that’s about all I would take out onto that track in Longtan.
Still wondering what kind of layout this new track in The Pen Bay will have?
[quote=“iix23”][quote=“Captain Stag”]Ouin, ca marche pas d’meme dude. I think that your view of fun is A)peeling away from every light in town to get noticed and B) destroying your car doing something it wasn’t intended to do, but doing it with the full intent of breaking it and thus getting to brag about huge repair bills at the end of the day.
My WRX is not a race car by any means. It’s just a sporty Jap econobox hatch with a decent powertrain in it. I have fun with it more often than you’d think, and I sure as heck don’t see the need to gain acceptance with the ‘money is no object so I destroy it’ crowd by putting it on a track that has a worse surface than the worst road in Baghdad. It’s a street car, and that’s where I drive it. Bottom line is that you are buying toys which you view as disposable, whereas my car serves the greater purpose of getting me and my family around. I prefer a Subaru over a Volkswagen or Nissan or Mitsubishi or Honda or Toyota or whatever. Should every GTI owner be tracking and drag racing his or her car? If I had more disposable income and plenty of free time, I’d build a cheap track car out of a civic and thrash it out on the track every chance I’d get. Besides, that’s about all I would take out onto that track in Longtan.
Still wondering what kind of layout this new track in The Pen Bay will have?[/quote]
You are getting this all wrong.
M3 is a race car, it belongs on a racetrack. It was your original OP that said that you didn’t understand why. I clarified that for you.
Second point you are trying to make is that sports car operators Quote " peeling away from every light in town to get noticed" NO we are doing it on a race track where it is meant to be done. Again I don’t see where is the problem.
Now Who said that our cars are getting destroyed on the racetrack?? We paid shit loads of money for them so instead of racing them on the normal street, we push them to the limit in a controlled environmental on a racetrack.
Finally, I love the WRX, it is a beautiful car I would love to get one but they are very rare on the island at this moment but, the first thing I would do with it, is give it to redwagon for a month for him to tune it up for me.
One more thing. You play according to your budget. If you have it then you can afford the consequences of the damages. If you don’t, then you don’t do it.
The same thing applies to me as it does to you. I have the budget so I can use my cars as I see fit I don’t need your acceptance to justify my choices. Judgement goes both ways my friend.
Sa marche de meme dude. C la vie
Quote Ding et Dong " si te pas content tu as juste a t’en acheter un Million $ " Quote
We don’t all have the same revenues in Taiwan. The rules of forumosa doesn’t prevent us to talk about things that others don’t have and can’t do. Why some of us should be shy about sharing the things we like to do only because they cost more money. This kind of conversation has been going for too long in the car and motorcycle section. I got my cars and bikes. I worked hard to get them so chill out.[/quote]
And that is how you finish a post lol…
btw i also think the M3 is a race car… actually if you see the M3 Adds on TV or Youtube you will most likely see videos of the car on a race track…
so, anyone else went on the weekend to the track? any comments?
The BMW M3 is a high performance version of a 3-series BMW sedan, coupe and convertible. It has plush luxurious interior trim as well as a chassis set-up for the street. Race cars are not legal on the street. I agree that it’s performance is exhilarating (which would lead first timers to believe that it is a race car) and without question. Like Audi’s S4, RS4, S6, RS6 and Mercedes-Benz AMG C63 and E63, these are higher performance versions of regular cars in their line-ups. They have none of the attributes that an actual race car has. For sure, it’s got to be more fun to drive an M3 around a track than a 318, but that still doesn’t make it a race car. Get it?
I couldn’t care less about what you and your buddies earn, and there sure isn’t a rule against bragging on the 'mosa, so feel free to do so…but, making up crap and talking down to others just because you want to defend you and your buddies cars, that in your view are the most coveted rides out there will be questioned.
so, let’s just clarify this…see new post with a poll…
How do you categorize the BMW M3…is it a High Performance luxury sendan/coupe or is it a track ready race car?..We’re talking from a perspective of a car straight out of the box.
I get Captain Stag’s post. It seems you guys want to race. Therefore, why not buy a race car? Honestly, I don’t get it! You obviously have the money, so why not just do it? Otherwise, as you said yourself, just buy a Sentra. A REAL race car – not a normal car that is purely designed to catch the wannabe boy racers with more money than sense. WHY? You’ve made it very very clear that money is no object to you, so WHY? Why don’t you spend the money on an eye-opener rather than just a run-of-the-mill sports car?
This whole argument is ridiculous. Track day your road car, whatever you have. There’s no point in belittling people because they chose to spend more or less on their car.
But just to get some definitions clear:
Simply driving a car on a track awesome and fun, but is not racing. If it’s not being timed against other cars within a certain set of rules or trying to be first to finish a certain distance or number of laps, it’s not racing. It’s performance driving or track days, which are all great and fun.
Racing, however, is a whole other beast. No car sold in any dealer showroom anywhere in the world that can be driven on the street is a race car.
Race cars are purpose built machines which may or may not be conversions of existing road cars. The difference is in tradeoffs for noise, vibration, harshness and usability. A race car has no AC, no interior, no adjustable seats, no rubber anywhere in the driveline or suspension, no exhaust emissions equipment of any kind, often no windows, and tires that last about 50miles. It is loud, hot inside, and difficult to get into and out of. It’s punishing to drive any distance. It has to be towed to the track. Very very far removed from a street car.
I used to race an M3 that I built from a perfectly good road car and turned into a real race car. It took a lot of of parts and work and money to go from being an M3 to a race car. An M3, even a CSL, is NOT a race car out of the box nor is any car that is sold in any showroom in the world. For a summer, I was also lucky enough to race a 911 GT2. Even that was NOT a race car until it was fully converted into one. There’s just too many tradeoffs to make a race car workable for the street. Even the mighty McLaren F1 needed significant updates to go from road car to race car.
This is what a current M3 race car looks like:
While it is based on the road car chassis and basic engine, it has nearly nothing else in common with the road car.
I don’t know anything about that, mablis. I’m just going by the BMW M3 reference. There’s one for sale just down the street from me, used, for around 600k. And it just looks like your general boring-as-fuck Beemer. :shrug:
Ok the taiwan auto market has differing views than over here in the bay area of course.
The M3 being so expensive over there makes it kind of mythical. But its not mythical and its not really even that good (just jealous I know).
The old inline six with 333 hp has a reputation for cracking its liner. The SMG tranny is very lurchy while the stick shift one is pretty sweet. The M3 is and has been what the 3 series bimmer should look like. Its the prettiest bimmer 3 out there bar none.
The old M3 was competing against the Audi S4 v8. Which wasnt exactly the same as the S4 is a 4door while the M3 is a coupe or roadster two door.
Everyone wants an M3 (if not an M5). Sure they are awesome, look beautiful and drive very nicely. They are really boyracers for the street out of the box. Can rollcages be put in them and make them track cars? Absolutely. BUt out of the box they are streetbred boyracers. Not for SERIOUS adults tho 
Serious adult boy racers drive ferrari, or lambo or at least a bimmer M5 !
Still it makes us common folk with plain jane ricers green with fucking envy , those gawdang m3 .
I sure love drivin em any chance i can get my paws on one.
The new M3 has a 420hp v8 (matches the RS4 v8 420hp) and has moved upmarket to compete with the audi RS4 (which is no longer made) while the new S4 dropped down market to compete with the new bimmer 335.
The new RS5 should put the bimmer boy racer in its place tho.
The M5 really is pretty much in its own class, but it is challenged by the porsche panamera and even the maser quattroporte I would say, cept the bimmer M5 is likely the best of the three.
But what the flock do i know, im just a lowly ricer driving a 03 RSX with 110,000miles on the crock.
I dont know what do you think a race car is, if you are talking about a car with a rolling cage inside and no seats… well that is a different story, but if you are talking about the built of the car for race track then M3 is that kind of car… just in case you didn’t know… the M3 has a button that when you press it it sets up all the engine performance, gear box performance and speed of gear shifting, suspension and balance to be ready to race … now that is a race car… that is also very luxurious and fashionable car…
If you want a car that best fits being able to go from home on regular roads onto a race track and put in some pretty great times, you need to go with the R8 and its kind.
But you could have a hella good time on the track in your bog standard street spec M3, or M5 or what not. But purists say the Miata really teaches handling.
The main consideration, both in terms of reality and in perception is what that car could do… its potential. An M3 out of the box will be pretty fun and fast for track days. It has a limited slip differential, good gear ratios, and 50/50 weight distribution. Thus, it will do all the things a race car is supposed to do, albeit extremely numbed down.
To get a WRX or Civic or most anything else to the level of a bone-stock M3, you have to modify it. Once these modifications (on both the M3 and WRX, Sentra, Civic, etc.) goes far enough to get into race car realm, things begin to equalize, but then the basic architecture of the car becomes the things you have to contend with.
A Civic can never be modified to be as fast as the fastest M3s. Firstly, it’s wrong wheel drive and secondly the weight distribution is terrible. The same goes for a WRX, which has terrible weight distribution and fragile engine architecture. However, the WRX has all wheel drive which helps in low traction situations. In the end, the fastest production based race cars in the world are all based on rear wheel drive platforms with either 50/50 or slightly rear-heavy weight distributions, like the M3, 911, etc.
What it comes down to is the car buyers mapping these cars to their racing equivalents and having the perception that their car could be like the racers. After all, cars in the end are aspirational objects, are they not?
FWIW, I’ve also modified a Sentra SE-R all the way to racing level. Because my friend had one and wanted to give it a shot. So we built it over three months. Engine swap (SR20VE), everything. It was fast. Really fast. But it didn’t stand a chance against the M3s.
See my answer in the other thread. This thread is totally stupid.
There is no way on earth ANY car bought from a showroom floor is “race-ready” so let’s just end this drivel now, shall we?
Can I have another option please?
Also I would ask why is the answer to the question important?
It is clear now that Sandman and Captain Stag are never going to race cars, then what are you doing posting crap in my topic that is more oriented to people who likes racing even if its on a bicycle… go play somewhere else with the keyboard and stop making the topic be boring and full of stupid arguments…
[quote=“sulavaca”]Can I have another option please?
Also I would ask why is the answer to the question important?[/quote]
The same reason why people try to bash on Ferraris or any other car they’ve deemed as “overly priced” and “not worth it”? The same internet “My [insert whatever car here] costs less than yours and is just as good.” pissing match, or anti-pissing match depending on your perspective. 