Bras and Breast Cancer

There seems to be some scientific evidence that wearing bras increases the risk of breast cancer. I found this article, written by a medical doctor.

[quote]There was a 125 fold increase in breast cancer incidence between
women who were bra-free and those who wore bras 24 hours daily.
Wearing a bra over 12 hours daily conferred a 113 fold increase in
breast cancer incidence! Bras apply pressure to the breasts, especially
to the lymphatic system. The lymphatic system consists of tiny,
thin-walled vessels that drain from the breast tissue, removing toxins,
cell debris, cancer cells, viruses, bacteria, and other products
from the breasts. All of our tissues drain through the lymphatics,
which is essentially the circulatory pathway of the immune system.

However, unlike arteries and veins, these vessels have no internal
pressure. As a result, they are easily compressed by external pressure
(a bra, for instance) leading to the congestion of the tissues that
would otherwise have been drained.

When a woman wears a tight bra, she subjects her breasts to pressure,
closing off the lymphatic pathway from the breast to the nodes.
This causes fluid build-up, swelling, tenderness and cyst formation.
Toxins must be flushed out via the lymphatics. However, a bra-constricted
breast cannot adequately perform this cleansing process, resulting
in toxin accumulation in the breast.

Truthfully, bras are creating droopy, weak breasts…the breast relies
on the bra for artificial support, the body loses its ability to
support the breast by itself. This is why many women feel uncomfortable
without a bra. What is the solution to breast cancer then? DON’T
WEAR A TIGHT BRA! And maybe sleep without them. There is a remarkable
success rate for recovery from fibrocystic breast disease within
10 days to two weeks of going bra-free. Many women have tried going
bra-less and recorded a miraculous improvement in their health!

Thank you for your kind attention,

Nguyen Phawk Yu, M.D.[/quote]

[health2us.com/bra.htm](http://www.health2us.com/bra.htm)

Here's another article, written by scientist:

[all-natural.com/bras.html](http://www.all-natural.com/bras.html)

This position is definitely not endorsed by the majority of the medical community though.

[quote]Bras and breast cancer

There have been reports, e-mails and websites that say wearing a bra might cause breast cancer.

At this time, there is no reliable, scientific evidence that shows a link between wearing a bra and developing breast cancer. If well-designed, peer-reviewed studies are carried out on this subject, the Canadian Cancer Society will review the research and the results.

The Canadian Cancer Society understands that Canadians are concerned about breast cancer, but recommends that caution be exercised in evaluating any medical information or claims obtained from the unmonitored Internet

Have a look at one of those National Geographic documentaries to see the effect of not wearing a bra.

Apart from obviously young women they seem to have empty bags hanging from their chests.

Why would women sleep with a bra on? That would surely be like wearing a hat to bed. No benefit and lots of discomfort.

Hmm… not wearing a bra? And that in Taiwan? I don’t think that would be such a good idea unless you are really craving for attention.

[quote=“Ironman”]Have a look at one of those National Geographic documentaries to see the effect of not wearing a bra.
Apart from obviously young women they seem to have empty bags hanging from their chests.[/quote]
Yes, thank you for that contribution, Ironman :astonished:

I don’t think any women do. I never heard of any. The 24h thing in the article must be an exaggeration.

[quote=“Ironman”]Have a look at one of those National Geographic documentaries to see the effect of not wearing a bra.

Apart from obviously young women they seem to have empty bags hanging from their chests.

Why would women sleep with a bra on? That would surely be like wearing a hat to bed. No benefit and lots of discomfort.[/quote]

Women’s breasts are going to sag anyways. There is no scientific evidence whatosever that wearing bras firms breasts. The chest muscles and ligaments are like those found in other parts of the body: They atrophy when not used. Wearing a bra for several hours every day, year and year, weakens the chest muscles and ligaments and increases the rate at which a women’s breasts will start to sag. Dr. Susan M. Love, a well known researcher and author on breast cancer, has thoroughly debunked the idea that bras firm up breasts in her book, “Dr. Susan Love’s Breast Book”.

A few years ago my family had a real scare when it seemed certain that one of my aunts had breast cancer. After weeks of testing and waiting, the doctors finally concluded that she did not have breast cancer. During the anxious waiting, I read a lot about breast cancer and other mammary diseases. I also learned that bras have no medical necessity whatsoever. Like corsets before them, they only serve to apply unnecessary pressure and strain on the female body. Some older women still wear corsets, which is alarming to doctors and researchers because of the seriously detrimental effects it can have on the internal organs. Medical cases still rise up every now and then of women whose internal organs have literally shrunk (and sometimes burst) due to corset wear. Bras, especially those that contain underwire or other devices to contort and pressure the breasts, can damage breast tissues. The philosophy behind push-up bras and so-called “shaping” bras is akin to the philosophy behind corsets and foot binding. A bizarre ideal of feminine beauty pervades society’s thoughts (small waists or small feet), and women will go to any length to conform to the ideal. I had a Chinese history professor once who said he’d read Manchurian women’s diaries in his studies, and he’d learned that many Manchurian women wished that they too had their feet bound, something forbidden by Manchurian custom. The Chinese women were taking all the good men, you see. The only difference between damaging one’s internal organs, feet, or breast tissues to fit a strange societal idea is one of degree. Minor nerve damage in the mammaries isn’t as severe as crushed and crippled feet, but the underlying idea is the same. I just hope that more women will take some time and read the relevant research before rushing out to buy restrictive bras.

Obviously you either don’t have breasts or you’ve never had to walk quickly (or downstairs).

Bras are fine as long as you wear a bra of the right size and good quality. If it feels comfy, it can’t really hurt you. If you squeeze yourself in a bra two sizes smaller than what you need, then yeah - it might not be very good for you. And I’d also recommend taking the bra off at night - most women do that anyway, of course.

I, for one, hate wearing bras because I don’t find them comfortable. However, I would feel more uncomfortable with the attention I would get from not wearing one (especially in Taiwan) :blush: .

Anyway, I like the way they make me look, when I’m wearing fitted clothing. And Notsu’s right: if you have large breasts, or you’re doing some sort of gravity-intensive activity, like jumping, it’s really uncomfortable not to have your breasts’ movement constrained.

Obviously you either don’t have breasts or you’ve never had to walk quickly (or downstairs).

Bras are fine as long as you wear a bra of the right size and good quality. If it feels comfy, it can’t really hurt you. If you squeeze yourself in a bra two sizes smaller than what you need, then yeah - it might not be very good for you. And I’d also recommend taking the bra off at night - most women do that anyway, of course.[/quote]

If you carry your arm around in a sling all day long, it won’t hurt you, but it will weaken the muscles, ligaments, and other supportive tissues in your arm. If you wear your arm in a sling for 8 to 12 hours a day, month after month, year after year, the supportive tissues will almost completely atrophy, and the weight of the arm would become a serious burden if you were to ever take off the sling. If you had started wearing the sling since your arm first took shape, then those supportive tissues would never have fully developed in the first place. Heck, you may even start to believe the sling is necessary to prevent the pain, rather than being its cause. :wink:

It’s sad that society often values physical appearance or modesty over health and comfort. Just imagine if the research on the correlation between bra usage and breast cancer turns out to be accurate. I’ll be the cynic and say that nothing would really change. Women already risk permanent nerve and tissue damage by spending thousands of dollars on unnecessary breast augmentation surgery, and their idiot male companions applaud them. I doubt very seriously that the threat of cancer would dramatically alter societal beliefs. For Lord knows what reason, female mammaries are considered by many societies to be indecent. This results in women being forced into covering them up, which of course further “sexualizes” breasts in the public mind, strengthening society’s conviction that breasts are indecent and must be hidden.

Notsu, Persephone, I do understand that it is uncomfortable for women with large breasts to do jumping jacks while not wearing a bra. However, I think there is a difference between wearing supportive clothing while exercising, and wearing bras day in and day out, regardless of one’s activities. If you are in pain while “walking quickly”, then I would suggest it is at least possible due to a lack of muscle and ligament development in the chest region. I highly recommend reading Dr. Love’s book referenced earlier in the thread. It covers not only breast cancer, but a wide range of breast mastalgia. She references not only her own research, but that of other doctors and medical scientists. There is a lot of evidence that prolonged bra usage is simply not healthy for the body.

Obviously you either don’t have breasts or you’ve never had to walk quickly (or downstairs).

Bras are fine as long as you wear a bra of the right size and good quality. If it feels comfy, it can’t really hurt you. If you squeeze yourself in a bra two sizes smaller than what you need, then yeah - it might not be very good for you. And I’d also recommend taking the bra off at night - most women do that anyway, of course.[/quote]

If you carry your arm around in a sling all day long, it won’t hurt you, but it will weaken the muscles, ligaments, and other supportive tissues in your arm. If you wear your arm in a sling for 8 to 12 hours a day, month after month, year after year, the supportive tissues will almost completely atrophy, and the weight of the arm would become a serious burden if you were to ever take off the sling. If you had started wearing the sling since your arm first took shape, then those supportive tissues would never have fully developed in the first place. Heck, you may even start to believe the sling is necessary to prevent the pain, rather than being its cause. :wink:[/quote]

My arm has muscles - it doesn’t just jump up and down when I walk and I can hold it still when I want to - therefore, no need for a sling. Breasts, however, don’t have muscles - it’s just the tissue that holds them - and when your breasts are bigger than cup B, you NEED a bra to avoid sagging, an extremely uncomfortable feeling that comes with bouncy breasts, and sometimes even stretch marks.

I have a cup A now and I can afford walking around without a bra - it’s not a big difference unless I jump or jog. With this size it is possible that the tissue won’t stretch out without wearing a bra on a regular basis. With a cup C (and I had that for over 2 years, too) the tissues would never be strong enough to keep breasts from early sagging. Jogging without a bra would be painful and probably end up with damaged (ex-)supportive tissues.

Ever seen photos of African tribal women?

Well… Mine look better. :stuck_out_tongue:

OK…
I hate this know-it-all attitude you’ve got - this I-read-a-book-and-I-know-all-about-bras-attitude.
What your quote says, is:

[quote]What is the solution to breast cancer then? DON’T
WEAR A TIGHT BRA! And maybe sleep without them.[/quote]

Guess what- that’s what most women do. Cause most women know that wearing a TIGHT bra is bad for health. But going out without a bra and then having to hold your breasts in your hands cause you need to run to catch the bus - well that’s not nice either.

Comfy bras is the way to go. And no bra at night.

Is that okay with you, daddy? :wink:

[quote=“Notsu”]OK…
I hate this know-it-all attitude you’ve got - this I-read-a-book-and-I-know-all-about-bras-attitude.
What your quote says, is:

[quote]What is the solution to breast cancer then? DON’T
WEAR A TIGHT BRA! And maybe sleep without them.[/quote]

Guess what- that’s what most women do. Cause most women know that wearing a TIGHT bra is bad for health. But going out without a bra and then having to hold your breasts in your hands cause you need to run to catch the bus - well that’s not nice either.

Comfy bras is the way to go. And no bra at night.

Is that okay with you, daddy? :wink:[/quote]

I notice how you’ve singled out one little part from the article…and the goofiest and most hyberbolic part at that.

Regarding Love’s book…well, it’s considered the canon on breast health. I simply recommend it as a good read. There are a lot of medical myths in the public mindset, and I think Love does a good job of debunking the myths surrounding breast health, using carefully documented research and hard-nosed analysis. Just from what I got out of reading the book, I also suggested it is a possibility that breast pain from walking too quickly may be a result of weakened chest ligaments and muscles (by the way, I am aware the mammaries themselves do not contain muscles). I am suggesting possibilities and recommending medical books, not being a know-it-all. :astonished:

Tell that to the underwear manufacturers who make billions selling women bras that apply unnatural and unnecessary pressure and strain so that women can fit whatever society’s new ideal may be.

Now regarding that picture you displayed…

You see this woman’s breasts? What do you think the chances are she’s ever even seen a bra? Breasts sag naturally as women age. There is no medical evidence whatsoever that bras do anything to stop this. In fact, they may speed the process for the reasons already stated.

Here’s another good example of a tribal woman with firm breasts (the pic is too large to display here).

images.andale.com/f2/104/107/216 … 19_c25.JPG

So…does anyone want to make a contribution that isn’t a snide comment or rude remark? I know we’ve got some nurses on here. I’d love to get your thoughts on the bras/breast cancer correlation, or just about bras and breast health in general. Thanks ahead of time :slight_smile:

I’ve checked back through the thread. I can see discussion and debate focusing on two issues.

  1. The bra at bedtime is a focus because it makes you question the rest of the article. This is what debate and discussion is about as I remember it.

  2. The before and after thing where you can look at younger and older African women to see the effects.

The last time I saw my X wives breasts when she was 43 years old the healthy C cups were still sitting up quite nice and perky. The pencil test would probably support more than one pencil but still I imagine without a bra for most of her life they would look a bit sad. Her large perfect breasts were the first thing that caught my attention when she was training at a gym doing chest work and 25 y.o.

So when is the codpiece coming back into fashion?

Taiwanese girls need bras like a fish needs a bicycle, as Bono once astutely remarked.

Bono said that?

Anyway, sod the codpiece, the aim is to keep it up, in which case I say bring back the penis sheath!

HG

I have absolutely no comment on this issue until my he-titties fully develop!

Except for this: Isn’t comparing breasts from different cultures a little unscientific? There must be a whole range of factors that contribute to breast development, the bra being only a very recent thing in the history of the Boob.

[quote=“gao_bo_han”][quote=“Notsu”]OK…
I hate this know-it-all attitude you’ve got - this I-read-a-book-and-I-know-all-about-bras-attitude.
What your quote says, is:

[quote]What is the solution to breast cancer then? DON’T
WEAR A TIGHT BRA! And maybe sleep without them.[/quote]

Guess what- that’s what most women do. Cause most women know that wearing a TIGHT bra is bad for health. But going out without a bra and then having to hold your breasts in your hands cause you need to run to catch the bus - well that’s not nice either.

Comfy bras is the way to go. And no bra at night.

Is that okay with you, daddy? :wink:[/quote]

I notice how you’ve singled out one little part from the article…and the goofiest and most hyberbolic part at that.

Regarding Love’s book…well, it’s considered the canon on breast health. I simply recommend it as a good read. There are a lot of medical myths in the public mindset, and I think Love does a good job of debunking the myths surrounding breast health, using carefully documented research and hard-nosed analysis. Just from what I got out of reading the book, I also suggested it is a possibility that breast pain from walking too quickly may be a result of weakened chest ligaments and muscles (by the way, I am aware the mammaries themselves do not contain muscles). I am suggesting possibilities and recommending medical books, not being a know-it-all. :astonished:

Tell that to the underwear manufacturers who make billions selling women bras that apply unnatural and unnecessary pressure and strain so that women can fit whatever society’s new ideal may be.

Now regarding that picture you displayed…

You see this woman’s breasts? What do you think the chances are she’s ever even seen a bra? Breasts sag naturally as women age. There is no medical evidence whatsoever that bras do anything to stop this. In fact, they may speed the process for the reasons already stated.

Here’s another good example of a tribal woman with firm breasts (the pic is too large to display here).

images.andale.com/f2/104/107/216 … 19_c25.JPG[/quote]

This, and the other pic that you gave a link to, are probably young teenaged girls. Of course they won’t be saggin’yet!

I lived in rural Africa for a few years in the 90’s, and yes, by the time the women are hitting their thirties without ever using a bra, their breasts are starting to look very sad.

[quote=“TheGingerMan”]
Except for this: Isn’t comparing breasts from different cultures a little unscientific?[/quote]

If the basis for comparison is ancedotal evidence it sure is unscientifc, yup.

[quote=“Indiana”]This, and the other pic that you gave a link to, are probably young teenaged girls. Of course they won’t be saggin’yet!

I lived in rural Africa for a few years in the 90’s, and yes, by the time the women are hitting their thirties without ever using a bra, their breasts are starting to look very sad.[/quote]

Hi Indiana,

You may find the following article interesting. It is primarily about the correlation between bra usage and mastalgia, but it’s got some points about “sagging”.

[quote]In year 2000, two breast surgeons started a study including 100 women at two breast clinics (all of whom had breast pain) and found that over half of the premenopausal women with pain found relief when they quit wearing bras for three months. For some the pain relief was very dramatic, changing their lifes. When they resumed bra wearing for the last three months of the study, the pain returned. Besides the pain data, the doctors also showed video thermography footage that dramatically demonstrated the heat build-up from bra wearing, and they discussed the possible connections with cancer causation…

The two medical experts who divided the experiment between their clinics are:

ROBERT MANSEL - Professor of Surgery at the University Hospital of Wales in Cardiff. He has studied breast pain for 25 years.
SIMON CAWTHORN is a consultant surgeon at the Frenchay Hospital in Bristol. He is a specialist in the area of breast treatment…

Both Mansel and Cawthorne are clear that there is no medical benefit to be obtained from wearing a bra. It does not stop sagging of the breast. Dispatches approached Playtex who confirmed that they are aware that there are no medical benefits.[/quote]

007b.com/bras_bare_facts.php

Dr. Love’s book refers to multiple studies that all confirm Mansel and Cawthorne’s findings about sagging (note: she does not think there is enough positive evidence to link bra usage and breast cancer however). Breasts can sag at any age. A 14 year old’s large breasts will sag while a 40 years small breasts may sag far less. I haven’t seen one shred of scientific evidence, not one article, essay or book written by a medical professional claiming that bras prevent sagging. But to be honest I was hoping this thread would be more about the relation between bra usage and breast health (mastalgia, cancer, etc.), not so much about sagging. Here’s an interesting article written by a pharmacist and a pharmacist doctoral candidate concerning the possible link between bra usage and breast cancer.

[quote]There are certain facts that need to be discussed and fully understood before we can go further.

Fact number 1: Toxins cause cancer. Toxins get into our bodies from the food we eat, the water we drink, and the air we breathe. These come in the forms of pollutants from industry, pesticides, food additives, etc. These toxins have the ability to change the cellular structure such that cells begin to reproduce at an accelerated rate, never to die, and eventually sap the host (us) of nutrition and energy. We hear about “carcinogenic” chemicals all the time.

Fact number 2: Our bodies have a method to get rid of toxins. Our God-given ability towards health includes a complex set of chemical and physical mechanisms in which to expel these cancer-causing toxins. First and foremost, the liver is responsible for waging chemical warfare, breaking these toxins down into smaller parts for use or expulsion from the body. The lymph system plays a vital role in the removal of these parts.

Fact number 3: The lymph system is very sensitive to physical pressure. The lymph system is similar to the vascular system in that it circulates and permeates every tissue in the body. However, where the blood vessels have the force of the heart to pump blood around the body, the lymph system has no such “active” circulation method. The flow of lymph throughout the body is dependant on passive forms of propulsion