Bravo, Taidong; Thank you Mayor Ma

Kuang Li-chen, “ex-wife” of KMT former County Councillor Wu Chun-li, was elected County Commisioner by a landslide in a special election.

The sordid details: Wu was convicted of corruption of vote-buying while a KMT councillor.

He was elected as County Governor in the December elections, but couldn’t take office bedause of his conviction. He immediately divorced his wife to get around the law against appointing spouses, but that was also ruled out and a special election was held, in which his ex-wife won a huge victory.

All the election posters showed the pair of them together, and he campaigned by her side.

As we say down here, why take a chance on electing someone who might turn out to be a crook, when you can vote for someone you already know is a crook?

And, of course our beloved “Mr. Clean” himself came down here to campaign for the crook. All of you out there expressing the fond hope that Mayor Ma is going to clean up the KMT and run out all those nasty corrupt gangster types- keep dreaming.

Between this and being a guest at Yen Ching-piao’s son’s wedding, it should be pretty clear that Mayor Ma will be quite happy to embrace local crooks if it helps him to gain power

Just checking, is Taiwan still a democracy? Was the vote conducted cleanly and legally? Or are you blaming the DPP authorities for incompetence, for not arresting those involved in vote-buying…?

Is the target of your derision really the KMT and Major Ma… or the electorate of Taidong?

[quote=“MikeN”]And, of course our beloved “Mr. Clean” himself came down here to campaign for the crook. All of you out there expressing the fond hope that Mayor Ma is going to clean up the KMT and run out all those nasty corrupt gangster types- keep dreaming.
[/quote]

The voters who voted the crook are crooks as well. Only MikeN is a saint.

See…isn’t that the great thing about Democracy - you get the government your deserve. :smiley:

In a country where access has to be bought, it is rational to vote for the corrupt. I thought it was great the way Ma can hobnob with gangsters and get defended, whereas the pro-China crowd would be all over Chen if he did similer.

Sad.

Get “defended”? The only defense I offered was that the individual in question was democratically elected by a majority of the voting public in a transparent political progress.

What part of that is incorrect? What part of that are you finding difficult to accept? Why aren’t you celebrating this woman’s victory as testimony to the success of the democratic system in Taiwan?

[quote=“cctang”]Just checking, is Taiwan still a democracy? Was the vote conducted cleanly and legally? Or are you blaming the DPP authorities for incompetence, for not arresting those involved in vote-buying…?

Is the target of your derision really the KMT and Major Ma… or the electorate of Taidong?[/quote]

Please…if the DPP authorities went around arresting more people for vote-buying we’d hear more wailing about the “Green Terror” and the Nazi-like character of dictator Chen…

Whether the electorate is ultimately held responsible or not, why isn’t it valid to criticize a party for nominating a seriously flawed candidate? When a major national party endorses and campaigns for a local candidate, doesn’t it confer a certain amount of prestige? Are voters wrong to expect that such a candidate be qualified and meet certain standards (such as not being a criminal)? You seem to be suggesting that the voters are guilty for trusting a party, or for not seeing through its campaign efforts. Which may be true, especially in the KMT’s case, but is extremely cynical coming from a supporter.

This surelly shows up 2 things:

  • One is that people in Taiwan accept corruption as a daily thing and are not keen on change
  • Second is that the people who come to the media fighting against corruption from the oposing parties, are all smilies when it comes to support their own party corruption - so, all that comes down to the old saying - “Do as I say, don’t to as I do”. Ma’s image of anticorruption just went down the drain. I’m so happy that they are not my government.

[quote=“cctang”]Just checking, is Taiwan still a democracy? Was the vote conducted cleanly and legally? Or are you blaming the DPP authorities for incompetence, for not arresting those involved in vote-buying…?

Is the target of your derision really the KMT and Major Ma… or the electorate of Taidong?[/quote]

Both- plus those still foolish enough to believe that Ma will clean up the KMT.
Oh, and the DPP here are just as bad- witness half the damn county being illegally mined for gravel and shipped to the West Coast.

As far as being the only saint on the coast,

“Well I ain’t no sinner;
But I ain’t no saint…”

[quote=“mr_boogie”]This surelly shows up 2 things:

  • One is that people in Taiwan accept corruption as a daily thing and are not keen on change
  • Second is that the people who come to the media fighting against corruption from the oposing parties, are all smilies when it comes to support their own party corruption - so, all that comes down to the old saying - “Do as I say, don’t to as I do”. Ma’s image of anticorruption just went down the drain. I’m so happy that they are not my government.[/quote]

Bravo, Mr. B

Well, it seams now they are going to get married again, so this is really a “Puppet Master” story…

[quote=“dj_jed”]
Please…if the DPP authorities went around arresting more people for vote-buying we’d hear more wailing about the “Green Terror” and the Nazi-like character of dictator Chen…[/quote]
Really? Can you name any specific cases that confirm the above?

Didn’t think so.

Let me make sure I understand you correctly. The KMT’s guilt in this is in the nomination of a candidate that you believe to be tainted. The fact that this candidate won more than 50% of the popular vote is irrelevant, because they were fooled by the “prestige” conferred by the KMT nomination.

You sure have a strong cynicism of the democratic process. Mayhaps we should just eliminate the popular vote, and let you vet acceptable candidates.

it’s not a question of believing or not - he was formerly accused. He may be innocent, but the way he conducted this election not only makes it worse, as is a dispicable case of running around the law. While people still voted on him (although, I wonder how many votes he would get if he was running independent against another KMT candidate), it makes me believe that people are ultimatelly happy with being ruled by corruption. Well… corruption is part of Chinese history and culture, so guess everyone is so used to it that they cannot imagine how it is to live without it.

[quote=“cctang”][quote=“dj_jed”]
Please…if the DPP authorities went around arresting more people for vote-buying we’d hear more wailing about the “Green Terror” and the Nazi-like character of dictator Chen…[/quote]
Really? Can you name any specific cases that confirm the above?

Didn’t think so.[/quote]
Yeah AC Dropout whines about it on a weekly basis, and there was the president Chen Nazi statue (which looked more like Lien Chan) erected by proponents of the KMT.

Anyway I too am shocked about the political complacency of many Taiwanese when it comes to corruption. Any of these scandals in America would’ve spelled the end of a career. In Taiwan its like a minor bump to success. Political offices are mean’t to be prestige jobs, not money making positions of power.

ROTFLMAO…

Dude, you are so extreme left…

The DPP really blew it in this election. They ran TWO candidates! Actually, I have to qualify that - the DPP didn’t nominate any candidates, but two well-known DPP guys ran as independents. That sealed their fate. If the DPP had nominated just ONE candidate, and threatened to expel anyone from the party who ran as an independent, they might have won. At least they would have had a chance. My wife, who is solidly DPP, didn’t bother to vote. She was convinced that it was hopeless, and she was right. And I think many other DPP supporters in this election just did as my wife, and stayed home.

ROTFLMAO…

Dude, you are so extreme left…[/quote]
Yet I more often than not, vote conservative / right. Go figure. Actually I’m very centrist and lean towards globalization.

Well then you sum it up. Two candidates running against each other and another party is suicide. Right? Just ask Lien and Soong.

[quote=“cctang”][quote=“dj_jed”]
Please…if the DPP authorities went around arresting more people for vote-buying we’d hear more wailing about the “Green Terror” and the Nazi-like character of dictator Chen…[/quote]
Really? Can you name any specific cases that confirm the above?Didn’t think so.[/quote]

That wasn’t a specific charge. But specifically there was an effigy of Chen in Nazi regalia at the last pan-Blue rally, and there were specific comparisons to Nazis in panBlue campaign literature. Ac_dropout and other posters here, as well as pan-Blue figures in the press, make references to “Green Terror” in response to various DPP actions such as threatening to investigate TVBS. That station still operates freely, despite its blatant violation of foreign ownership rules, and no one was arrested, beaten, etc. This trivializes the KMT’s White Terror of the 1950s in which serious violations of human rights took place.

Let me make sure I understand you correctly. The KMT’s guilt in this is in the nomination of a candidate that you believe to be tainted. The fact that this candidate won more than 50% of the popular vote is irrelevant, because they were fooled by the “prestige” conferred by the KMT nomination. You sure have a strong cynicism of the democratic process. Mayhaps we should just eliminate the popular vote, and let you vet acceptable candidates.[/quote]

Stop with the straw men here. I never said the popular vote was “irrelevant” - that’s what got the candidate elected. I didn’t question the validity or legitimacy of the election in any way. I am critical of the voters, but I said the party should be criticized as well. I don’t know why you would object to this. The candidate is not tainted because of my belief - he’s tainted because he was an indicted criminal. To suggest that parties can ignore a candidate’s criminal record if its in their interest, and should not be held accountable for the character of their nominees, is just appalling.

If that was the case in absolute terms, 1/2 of the DPP could not be party members, since many of them were convicts. Including the present day President and VP currently in office.

Yet these members use their past legal convictions as badges of honor.

If that was the case in absolute terms, 1/2 of the DPP could not be party members, since many of them were convicts. Including the present day President and VP currently in office.

Yet these members use their past legal convictions as badges of honor.[/quote]

Yes under your logic, Nelson Mandela should not be allowed to run for office. In fact since for a time Mao Ze Dong was wanted by the KMT, maybe you believe he shouldn’t have been allowed to run for the higher echelons of the CCP.