Brazillian ju jitsu wake up and smell the coffee

Brazillian ju jitsu practitioners YOU WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE.
(From what I have seen the Gracie movement appear to be very over confident in their techniques on the street). I had all the respect for Hoyce Gracie in the early UFC’s and still have enormous respect for the guy now. However 99.99% of his students are not anywhere near to Royce Gracie in skill and gameness.
Unfortunately the UFC has gone from a test of fighting skills into a SPORT. No finger breaks, no head butting, no biting, no fish hooking, no groin attacks, no open strikes to the neck, groin, or eyes, no attacks to the kidney area, no attacks to the spine, no side kicking to the knee in fact the list goes on an on and on. At least in the early days head butting was allowed. This allowed Igor vochainkin to defeat many a grappler with his famous reverse head butts in the AFC. However it is now not a very realistic test of style for the street.
Unless you as a Brazillian ju jitsu fighter have been up against a good street fighter then you dupe yourselves into thinking ufc etc etc is a real test of fighting. Guard position (a famous brazillian ju jitsu ground position) is practicarly useless against a good street fighter. If you ask why then you do not know what a good street fighter is ? Before you claim i do not know what grappling is well i do. I have been trained in both shoot fighting and brazilian submission wrestling,(and won competitions, so what!) I have also done boxing for many many years and train in wing chun (my favorite style along with boxing for street fighting). Many people in BJJ (brazillian ju jitsu) seem to brag about how BJJ is superior, well smell the cofee because on its own it is not. However i agree that grappling is very useful and every “martial artist” should at least learn some as to know how to defend against it. Just like Chuck Liddel does and then succesfuly beats grapplers on a regular basis with strikes (a very dangerous man), someone Gracie would not get in the ring with (as gracie is a smart guy)!

Now BJJ is an excellent art for the mat and for fighting on a padded surface or to fight a drunk brawler with. However Brazillian ju jitsu for fighting against a brutal MMA or street fighter with no rules beware you may end up without your crown jewles ! (yeah your teticles) or your pearls yes your eyes. Now fighting against weapons (the norm in taiwan so far as broken bottles goes) well please don’t take it to the ground ! Fighting against multiple attackers ouch please don’t go to the ground. Fighting on concrete well it can be done but watch out you could loose by accidently banging your head. This message is not a dig at gracie ju jitsu or the Gracies (who i admire) but a wake up call to the students of Brazillian ju jitsu yes “smell the coffee.” Sport is sport not fighting.
However on the flip side it is also a cop out by many traditional martial artists who refuse to fight in simulated fighting or sport fighting ,as it can be a good test as to roughly how good you are at some of your techniques. BUT CERTAINLY NOT THE BE ALL AND END ALL. Gracie was fundamental in clearing out much of the bullshit in martial arts and is a superb fighter but i am sure that he knows some of the weaknesses in BJJ as if you are honest with yourselves (BJJ people)you will also acknowledge. A few guys revolutionise the martial arts every once in a while and the two figures this century were in my opinion Bruce Lee and the Gracies.
However some of the grapplers on these forums that brag about how superior BJJ is well i advize you to just beware, that it is not YOU fighting Chuck liddel or whoever in the ring and remember it is a RING.
On a closing note. My friend who is a professional doorman and has been on the door for nine years in northern England has a black belt in BJJ and a karate black belt was telling people how he feared the seasoned street fighter more than any other martial artists. How they are “game” (GAMENESS SOMETHING MOST MARTIAL ARTISTS LACK) for the fight and stop at nothing to win. Well a few months ago he got badly beaten by one, including having the top of his finger bitten right off while trying some grappling. Also a BJJ practitioner with many years experience in Taiwan just got a real beating by three unarmed Taiwanese guys. Yes 3 to one unfair odds but they were untrained drunk street thugs !
So finally power to the Gracies for all they have done in revolutionizing the martial arts but to all you students who have trained for a few years in Brazillian ju jitsu nd who think you are now tough and rough i suggest you step back and realise your weaknesses, rather than just acknowleding your strengths. Because you yourselves are turing into the arrogant elitists that YOU claim is only apparent in the traditional martial arts community.

Good post. This should bring some responses.
This would also make a good “Guest Columnist” letter to one of the trade magazines.

Sure, the tone of your posting makes it clear that it’s just for argument’s sake. Still, you make some points that need to addressed.

First, it is a myth that there is no striking in BJJ.
Gracie JJ is only one kind of BJJ. While it was the first version to make international headlines, as you point out, its practitioners are no longer competetive at the highest levels. Part of reason for this may be the extremely conservative interpretation of Jiu-jitsu it practices. Quite literally, Jiu-jitsu is the unarmed combat of the Samurai knights of pre-Meiji Japan. The sporting versions of the art that emerged with the introduction of firearms include karate, aikido, and judo. Jiu-jitsu in its original form and in some of its contemporary interpretations is primarily, but not exclusively, a grappling style. In fact, Andy Wang at Taipei BJJ encourages students to learn stricking and holds classes that include punching and kicking.

In afterthought, it struck me that you must not have attended the MMA tournament that we held last month. If you really feel BJJ is just grappling, I think you would have been surprised.

Second, I am a little confused about who you’re talking about.
Who are those “grapplers on these forums that brag about how superior BJJ is”? Just to make sure that I wouldn’t be sticking my foot in my mouth, I went back and reread all of the posts to “traditional martial artists need to smell the coffee.” … sc&start=0
I read people making this claim about various traditional martial arts, some of which they named, but I didn’t see anyone making this claim about grappling or BJJ. Are you referring to a different thread?

Third, are you really arguing that the best fighters are good street fighters?
It would be hard to claim that Chuck Lidell, Randy Couture, or even Tito Ortiz are street fighters. Who are these “seasoned street fighters” that could take them? I’m sure you’re aware that UFC champions make a significant income. The same is true of PRIDE. In fact, the UFC has tried on various occassions to give street fighters a shot at this income. None of them have lasted 1 round. I’m willing to accept that there are police or military unarmed combat instructors who could hold their own against a UFC champion, but they would have all received extensive training.

Finally, let me say what I am not saying.

I am not saying that traditional martial arts are useless or not worth studying. Brian Kennedy has pointed out that there are many very good reasons to study traditional martial other than their fighting efficacy. I also believe there is fighting efficacy in traditional martial arts; just not the highest level of fighting efficacy.

I am not saying that one has to study martial arts to be a good fighter. Nor am I saying that only BJJ fighters are good fighters. That’s ridiculous.

I am not saying that martial arts training is the only way to learn effective self-defense. But we had this discussion way back on the original thread, and I don’t have much more I can add.

And finally, I am not saying that grappling will win you every fight nor is BJJ some magical solution to personal combat. There are lots of great fighters and lots of great clubs that have nothing to do with BJJ. What’s more is that I doubt you’ll find anyone associated with BJJ who will say anything much different.

First and foremost, there were a lot of good points made for and against BJJ but I thought I would throw in my own personal experiences and opinion to shed some more light on the matter.

The common misconception is that Gracie Jiu-Jitsu IS Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. That was a marketing ploy that successfully worked for Rorion Gracie when he first went to America; but it is also the same reason why people in his own immediate family dislike him. Gracie Jiu-Jitsu is but one brand/style of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and not everyone likes to jump to guard like Royce Gracie or shoot in for takedowns with their head low and incorrectly like Royler Gracie. A good example is the current members of Brazilian Top Team, who are all former members of the Carlson Gracie Team. Many of these guys have Black Belts in Judo, Olympic training experience in Wrestling and Boxing as well as the Jiu-Jitsu they practice. They have been cross-training in 2 or 3 martial arts for the last 10 years!

My own brand of BJJ is very different from Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, and in fact, I’m against GJJ because they have stopped learning and have become quote cocky indeed. I trained with one of the Gracie brothers in Hawaii for about a year and ended up leaving because they never evolved and wouldn’t let us evolve either. But again, don’t make the mistake of thinking BJJ and GJJ is one the same, because it is not.

My next BJJ instructor was Egan Inoue who was completely different and for those of you that don’t know him, he has fought in PRIDE, is a BJJ World Champion as well as holding a Black Belt in Karate from his grandfather and a Instructorship in Jeet Kune Do under Burton Richardson. A day did not pass where we did not incorporate striking, grappling and groundfighting together and no one art or range of fighting was more important than the other. A quote from Egan that I use with my students until this day, “It’s true, 80-90% of fights go to the ground, but 100% start on the feet” is a daily reminder to practice your striking and wrestling abilities in addition to the BJJ. Again, DON’T ASSUME we all just jump to our backs and wear pajamas on the mats.

Your post mentioned something about street fighting and gouging and so forth. First of all, ANYTHING can happen in a fight and it only takes one slip, one punch, one anything and everything changes. That being said, chance favors the prepared person and if you train honestly and correctly in the 4 Ranges of combat (Punching/Kicking/Infighting/Ground) then you should do reasonably well in a self-defense situation. How do I know? I worked at one of the most notorious night clubs in Los Angeles at the age of 19 and saw first hand what worked or didn’t work in a real fight. I noticed right away that all the gang-bangers with all the tattoos fought the same way, throwing wild punches and trying to tackle each other to the ground. Once on the ground, they would roll around until someone broke up the fight. Why? Nobody likes to get hit and the safest part in a fight is the clinch and we all instinctively try to grab our opponent. (Watch boxing, guys who know nothing about grappling, how many clinches are there per round of every fight? Quite a few!) Right away I came away with a couple of conclusions; #1 you have to know how to throw straight punches #2 you have to know how to take other people down and defend yourself from being taken down and #3 you have to know how to defend yourself on the ground because if they are bigger than you, it may happen that you end up on the bottom.

You talk about gouging and biting fingers? I have 100s of live street fight videos on tape and haven’t seen a finger thrust stop a big ass guy from throwing someone on the ground and stomping the crap out of him. I have these tapes for your perusal if you would like to come and watch them. I have an even better tape which I will try to publish online where a Kung-FU master challenged ANY grappler to a no-rules fight for $5000. The only stipulation was that EVERYTHING was allowed including eye attacks and groin shots. My training partner at RAW Wrestling Club accepted the challenge and they fought at the Kung-Fu studio. The fight starts, John goes in for the takedown, the Kung-Fu guy goes down and immediately starts eye-gouging John which looked painful, but not nearly as painful as the shoulder lock John slapped on that broke his arm. The point? The Kung-Fu guy is a REAL man because he didn’t just assume things, he was willing to find out and put $5000 on the line to search for truth in combat. If he had just a little bit more in his aresenal he could have done better and the eye gouges didn’t save him. Now, if he had something else to back up the eye-gouging with…

You mentioned mutiple attackers. The biggest myth in ANY martial art is that one person can beat up 10 by using correct techniques. If three or more people jump you and they aren’t half comotose monkeys then you will have a rough time and chances are you will get beaten up. How do I know? When I was growing up in Los Angeles I got jumped by 3 members of the Carson 13 gang. Looking back, no amount of BJJ, Kung-Fu or whatever was going to change the outcome because they were mean ass mofos and they knew what was up. I did the only thing I could do; swing for the fences and hope somebody broke it up before it got ugly.

As for training on mats and whether that makes us soft. I used to train at a gym in Los Angeles and a day did not go by when we did not wear padding or equipment. In fact, you WERE NOT ALLOWED to spar without the proper equipment. The name of the place? LA BOXING, which is home to some of the best professional boxers today. If you didn’t have headgear and 16 ounce gloves, you couldn’t spar, that was end of story. Why? Because if you want to get good at something, you have to be able to practice consistently and if you’re out there sparring with no gloves, or 8 oz. gloves and no headgear, you’re not going to be practicing for long. Is that to say boxers are soft or too sportive? Heck no, a good boxer will knock a person’s face into next week with or without gloves on, but they have to practice safely to be able to practice 4-6 times a week. Same with Jiu-Jitsu.

In the end, I’ve always been fascinated by the martial arts and I hope to be a part of something new and exciting in Taiwan. I believe every martial art has it’s strength and weaknesses and we can all benefit from them. My classes sometimes start off with Tae-Kwon Do, just to remind everyone we are Martial Artists and not BJJists. I hope you all have a chance to come and see what we are doing and then you will realize that some people have already “Woke up and smelled the coffee”.

Andy Wang
Taiwan Jiu-Jitsu Team

Very nice post Andy.

Andy Wang -
Well said. Thank you.

Holy shit OP, Andy just kicked your ass with only his fingers!

IMO, both fenlander and Andy Wang have presented reasoned and informative posts.
Both have articulated their views showing their knowledge of their preferred styles and other styles under discussion.
Well done to both of them.

I agree with TC. Both are very informative posts.

First i would like to say that was an excellent post by Andy Wang, very well put and you obviously have both exteme skill in fighting and extreme skill with a pen and paper (or keyboard) !

Andy Wang is the real deal. Why ? Because he has experience on the club door and in the ring. He is also obviously very intelligent ! intelligent fighters are very dangerous.

Incidentally to clarify or perhaps correct myself i was not saying that street fighters are necessarily the best fighters but that they are more often than not the MOST dangerous. I would also like to mention that in a fight people should not forget “gameness” which is the will to fight or continue fighting against difficult odds or when you are losing. This unfortunately in my opinion is more in the genes and early upbringing than can be trained on the mat or in the dojo. Gameness or the will also effects things such as the ability to kick or punch hard, the internal martial art of Hsing i calls this “intent”. It is a lot easier to punch a bag with full power than to have the will to rain down punches onto another human being.

Anyway i agree with almost all of what Andy Wang said and was totaly impressed with his reply. I’m sure he will revolutionize the martial arts scene in Taiwan. There is a place for all the martial arts and and in my opinion the most important aspect for any martial artist to have in order to improve himself, is self honesty about their style, not to get lost in self ego; and to develop self confidence without arrogance (arrogant being what some of the Gracies became or as Andy more diplomaticaly calls it cocky).

Incidentally i am not sure if you guys have heard of Roy Shaw, Lenny Mclean or Cliffy fields. These guys were both bare knuckle boxing champions and unlicensed boxing champions. They also participated and won “on the cobbles fights” i.e. “all in fights” where really anything goes, and yes they are illegal.
(Roy shaw "web site link below) When Roy Shaw was asked his opinion of Ian “the machine” freeman (ufc fighter) and UFC style fighting in general he said “i highly rate it”.
some interesting books on this site.

Anyway all the best for BJJ in Taiwan, you have a great guy teaching it (Andy Wang) and it is a fantastic top quality style! :slight_smile:

Lovely. A convicted armed robber who assaults people for a living. Nice role models some of you people have. :unamused: And he’s also very far from pretty.

Yep! He would the best definition for arrogance.
What a complete looser.:loco:
You lost 100 points with this post fenlander.

I enjoyed both posts.

First, I think GJJ or BJJ is the current “flavor of the month” martial art. I remember when Thai boxing was the sheit, Thai boxers beat everyone. Then there were the Jeet Kune Do blowhards.

I don’t mean to belittle these arts. I like them actually, but when an art becomes popular, you draw a lot of wankers.

I remember a JKD instructor who was telling me of how difficult it was for him to qualify as a “Thai Boxing” instructor. Sirsute held thai pads for him for 2 minute rounds. The JKD (and now Thai boxing) instructor told me how difficult it was for him, physically, to keep going, to keep kicking.

Now, I thought, at the time, this tale did not impress. Going a few rounds with someone holding the Thai pads isn’t comparable to actually doing Thai boxing. But I was a potential student, so I kept my mouth shut. Then I made a mistake: The JKD instructor talked about how if he slowed down Sirsute would push him to kick with the pads, and how exhausted he was after, and how it was the most difficult test ever. This was all I could take and I made an error: “Unless you were tested by actually doing Thai boxing.” The JKD guy stared at me and agreed. I should have kept my mouth shut, if I wanted to join his class.

GJJ/BJJ is the martial arts flavor of the month. You draw a lot of people who want to learn the baddest arse martial arts around, you draw a lot of arrogant people. GJJ/BJJ is a great art, but as Fenlander points out, the UFC and the mat is a sport. Last I checked, the UFC board had over 40 prohibitions now. You can’t knee a downed opponent (Mark Kerr hated this one). You can’t fish hook. You can’t do eye attacks. It’s good to look at the UFC prohibited attacks as a base for effective street techniques!

Andy Wang’s excellent post talked about a kung fu master trying out his eye gouges in a match against a grappler. I liked Andy Wang’s post because he’s open minded enough to say, if the next master had something in backup in addition to the eye gouge–who knows. Too many times we see fights as being between arts, when in reality, I believe, it is often between people and physical conditioning. I watched DVD Ali v. Foreman last night and before the fight, someone asked Frazier at ringside if Ali had a chance…and Frazier said something like : “Well, my man’s got two hands…” meaning anything can happen (which it did).

The armed robber bare-knuckle guy sight was interesting. I think you can learn from many different people and arts. I used to work out with the “knights” from the Society of Creative Anachronism (who work out and fight with sticks simulating weapons of the middle ages). I think the knights of this organization could give any martial arts master an excellent run for their money in a fight with weapons. If I can learn something from bare-knuckle fighters, great, I don’t really care if they were past sinners.

I’m not into finding a role model, Sandman, if you’re looking for a role model in the martial arts --good luck. Maybe Tank Abbott. Ha ha.

Thesis BJJ is a superior martial art.

Antithesis BJJ fighters get beaten by shootfighters who themselves get beaten by other martial artists.

Synthesis There are no superior martial arts, only superior martial artists.

[quote]Thesis BJJ is a superior martial art.

Antithesis BJJ fighters get beaten by shootfighters who themselves get beaten by other martial artists.

Synthesis There are no superior martial arts, only superior martial artists.[/quote]

most fighters cross-train nowadays. it means they’ll have a good stand-up, good wrestling skills and also great jiu-jitsu on the ground. each fighter has its own preferences or abilities but the ultimate goal is to have enough skills in each position (clinch, ground…).

A gracie get challenged and beat by a street fighter even under vale tudo rules. link here

Thanks for all the compliments and I’m glad there is an interest in martial arts/MMA out here in Taiwan and hopefully the enthusiasm will carry over and help make a MMA scene possible down the line.

As for my own personal philosophy towards the martial arts it’s important to first note that in America I was a high school history teacher and believe academics and martial arts are similar in some ways. When I taught history, I would have been very irresponsible and remiss as an instructor if I told my students that history was THE most important subject and they should not study math or science. No person can get very far in life without being well-rounded. You could be the best math student in the whole world, but if that’s all you know, if you can’t even write your own name, then you’re going to be in big trouble someday. I feel the same with martial arts. No matter how good you are on the ground, if you know a million different ways to choke someone, but you get KO’d before you get to the ground, what good were those chokes? Any good University will first require you to take a wide array of subjects before concentrating on a major. I feel the same about martial arts and while we all have our own strengths and preferences, there is NO PERFECT art and you have to train in many disciplines to be truly well-rounded and capable martial artist.

I’d also like to point out that I’m not a very big fan of the Gracies and while their accomplishments are noteworthy and they blazed a trail for us to follow; they have become victims of their own success and forgot how important it is to constantly evolve and learn. I’ve trained and met many of the most famous Gracies including Rickson, Royce, Rorion, Relson and so on. Nice guys, but the only Gracie I truly admire and respect is Renzo because he has fought all the toughest and modern fighters and made no excuses win, lose or draw.

There is NO perfect or complete styles. But what I do know is that of all the arts I have trained in, competed against and fought with, BJJ addresses the groundfighting aspect the best and the flexibility of the art really complements the stand-up game I use. I encourage everyone to be open-minded and always accept the fact that there is no such thing as a perfect style and we can ALWAYS improve our existing knowledge and that’s the fun of doing martial arts.

As for the modern MMA events being a sport, that is a 100% true statement but there are lots of things we can take away from these shows. Most of the early street fighters that entered these events were not very effective (i.e. Tank Abbott, Dirty Harry Moskowitz, Paul Varelens, etc.) once they came across someone skilled and disciplined. The fighters that are still competitive are the ones that adapted and went past their streetfighting backgrounds and learned scientific martial arts theories such as wrestling and boxing and so forth. But you also want to take into consideration that many of the fighters in the UFC were also notorious street fighters growing up and they would not be learning BJJ, MT, Wrestling if they did not feel would work in a real situation.

That being said, there are SEVERAL underground MMA events that allow pretty much everything and the results in my eyes are still the same. The ones that are comfortable in all ranges are the ones that do well. One of the underground events I have been privy to go to is called the “Gathering” which is hosted once a year in El Segundo, CA. by the famous Dog Brothers stick fighting club. They have LIVE stick fights and anything is allowed. You still see a high majority of the fights turn out a certain way and it’s really hard to poke someone in the eye or kick them in the nuts when they are swinging a stick at you or throwing devastating right crosses to your nose.

I was very fortunate early on to have trained a bit with the venerable Sifu Dan Inosanto over at the Machado Jiu-Jitsu Academy in Torrance. You will not meet a more humble and sincere man and I was truly impressed by the fact that he was willing to wear a White Belt in BJJ and to learn the system from the beginning. The one thing I learned with him was that a real martial artist can put down his Black Belt and his ego and always pursue evolution and learning and I hope that is a lead an example we can all follow.

Andy Wang
Taiwan Jiu-Jitsu

First of all let me say that Andy is speaking from the benefit of SO much more experience than me on this topic that I’m flat out embarrassed to even bother making a comment - but hell, I just have to put in my 2 cents:

I think Fenlander and Andy are emphasizing two non-mutually exclusive points: 1) the importance of real-life experience in determining combat proficiency and 2) the importance of using a methodical, emperically-developed method of getting in regular training without having to risk one’s life every time one trains, as one would if one used only the street as one’s ‘dojo’!

I do think there’s a ‘cult of the streetfighter’ that’s almost as prevalent as the cult of the traditional martial arts. I also think that if I were trying to learn to fight, I’d prefer a scientifically evolved methodology rather than trying to re-invent the wheel by learning through trial and error on my own in “real” situations. (And let’s face it, I’m not one to get in fights, so without a system I’d never learn jack in any case.)

That’s not to say Fenlander hasn’t made some poignant criticisms of those who believe grappling or even MMA competition is the end-all be-all of martial combat.

To boil down some of what Andy said regarding effective MMA training into a trite little maxim, I’ll repeat what my old Goju sensei used to always drill into us:

Adaptation is the key.

By that reasoning, one should know something of everything - as I think Fenlander himself basically said at one point.

If a good grappler goes in against a good striker who knows nothing of grappling, I think the grappler’s going to generally come out on top - as the early UFCs demonstrated. (The striking/grappling bifercation is probably an oversimplification these days, but it’s convenient for discussion.) If a good “pure” grappler goes in against a good striker who has a solid grappling defense, then the striker will most likely win. So the consistently winning fighter probably knows something of both, and uses whichever angle the other guy doesn’t know well to beat him; that’s adaptation.

NOW - sorry to divert the topic slightly but I have a question for Andy regarding Jujitsu. In your opinion, how does Brazilian jujitsu compare with regard to “pure” or original Japanese jujitsu? Is it extremely different? What’s the state of Jujistu in Japan now? In general, are the Japanese resentful or welcoming of whatever modifications have been made?

And what are the differences between aiki-jujitsu and jujitsu?

It made my heart glad to see Andy Wang mention the Dog Brothers!

I met Eric, one of the founding Dog Brothers, in Tennessee. He was a class guy and already had a name for himself because he won an Escrima event in the Phillipines. I considered it an honor to spar with him although I remember him choking me out fairly quickly, I was up to do it again and we sparred several times. I was surprised when he complained he had difficulty finding people to spar with him full-contact in California. Though I guess I shouldn’t be, since a lot of people think going full-out hitting each other with sticks, looks kinda crazy.

I told the story about the JKD wanna-be poseur who bragged about qualifying to teach Thai Boxing under Chai Sirsute by kicking thai pads. Well, the same guy in his dojo, had a stack of tires. Tires are great for hitting with sticks. So I was happy to see they had this in the dojo, along with the heavy bag, banana bag, wooden dummy. However he said they didn’t like to hit the tires … because …it got their sticks dirty. I can’t imagine ever saying anything like this …even if I was a “pansy” (or perhaps better said obsessive compulsive about stick marks) and didn’t wanna get a nice, new pair of sticks dirty, I would keep an old pair next to the tires.

Anyway, the best classes I liked made training personal for me. I noticed I did different things than other students. Interestingly enough, when they had students who came in for the weekend, cross-training, they often gave them a lot of drills. “Americans love drills.” they told me. And when they gave seminars, there were a lot of drills too. Now these students might say they “studied with Master So-and-so” and they’re correct, but they were never included in the full circle.

Theodore Sturgeon said “90% of Science Fiction is crap, but then again, 90% of everything is crap.” And I believe the same goes for martial arts. 90% of what you see and hear about martial arts is bullshit. In 20 years there’ll be a new martial art proclaimed as the best and unbeatable and all the wankers will move to it. GJJ is great, but it’s too popular, and this thread kinda shows there’s a bit of a backlash among thinking martial artists concerning it.