It’s looking like a cock up so far.

Either things work because people are clever, or they fail because people aren’t as clever as they they thought they were.

The Benelux did good. The EU did fine until the UK came in.

" The UK first applied to join the EU in 1961. This application was vetoed by the French government in 1963 and a second application was vetoed, again by the French, in 1967. It was only in 1969 that the green light was given to negotiations for British membership, with talks starting in 1970. The UK joined the European Economic Community on 1 January 1973, alongside Denmark and Ireland."

The problem is that the EU has unified too much, or not enough. With the constriction of the Euro, countries like Greece or Spain can’t devalue their currency in response to economic downturns, but the EU is not integrated enough for automatic stabilizers to come into play. In the US you don’t get a lot of grumbling from San Francisco and New York at having to subsidize Kentucky and Alabama ( a lot coming the other way, bitching about “coastal elites” while lining up to cash their checks) because most of it is concealed. Canada (as usual) is halfway in between, so you always get grumbling about interprovincial equalisation payments.
In Europe you get the central bank run to the rhythms of the northern (especially German) economy; then the northerners complaining about those lazy southerners.

The EU mostly works pretty well. Most countries gain more than they lose. Freedom of travel and work and shared recognition of licenses and education and no customs or extra tariffs are huge benefits. Stable Euro for the Eurozone and make trading and pricing much easier. Lowers currency risk and exchange fees.

Europeans mostly don’t want a unified army and some countries still want their own currency. Flexibility is good.

Also the Euro currency has actually been a big success but Europe would probably do better with a second more inflationary Euro for those countries which like to pile on debt and inflate it away. It’s very difficult to have one rate. Currency and interest rate for so many countries at different Stages of economic development .

A deal for Taiwan to buy 5m doses of a Covid-19 vaccine developed by Germany’s BioNTech is on hold, the island’s health minister said, citing potential pressure from China for the delay.

With all of germany’s shady dealings with china i’m starting to lean towards the brexiters.

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I really do not want to like this comment , but I did. You raise a few good points there.

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Good man💪

The U.S. is getting less and less like the U.S. and more like the U.S.S.A. all the time so nobody is really like the U.S. anymore.

But are eager to accept them from tourists.

BioNTech founders a from Turkey.

I appreciate your concern, Brexit is a very popular issue in the U.K. Some people of their want to support Brexit, but some people do not support this. In a survey, it came out that half of the population of the U.K. are supporting Brexit.

Get at em boys.
And where is the EU contribution to the future war with Red China and Putin’s Russia. ? It is nice to know that if Red China ever attacks Taiwan then British and American forces will wipe out their navy and statelites within a few days. While the EU will be verbally condemning all sides but doing nothing.Brexit Space Force!
Britain’s Space Command ‘could deploy RAF jets to the “edge of space”’

Well it was pretty close to 50-50 across the UK at the time of the referendum, which barely passed. If you broke it down into regional votes though, only the English supported it.

And if you look again now, you will see that many who voted for it all those years ago are now horrified at the outcome and the effects. Which, needless to say, are exactly what many of us standing on the sidelines predicted would happen.

Bugger the English.

Well, maybe not. We’d have to find something that they don’t enjoy.

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Which is less than before and meaning the half does not support it

Which is why I question these referendums. In 1995 Quebec voted 50.5%- 49.5% to stay in Canada; a slight swing before the vote could have resulted in a leave vote- at which time the seperatists would have declared the matter settled.

Parizeau, who announced his pending resignation as Quebec premier the following day, later stated that he would have quickly proceeded with a unilateral declaration of independence had the result been affirmative

The side that wins, no matter by how slim a margin, declares the matter is settled once and for all and can never be voted on again, no matter what subsequent public opinion may be.
“The people have spoken”- yes, at that time, and according to how the issue was presented, which may be very different from the final settlement.


Cant believe 'leave the Europe by 2020 and the solar system by 2025" is actually happening :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:


It happened. Get over it.
Which country could be next to leave?

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I dislike referendums as I don’t think they mix well with parliamentary democracy. They are too binary and simplistic. Having said that I’m pretty sure holding a referendum was in the Tory manifesto prior to the 2015 election, albeit in a vaguely worded fashion, so - that’s democracy.

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Zuid brabant 加油 :grimacing::wink: