[quote]You have now pointed out to you, Gentlemen, two Roads—one evidently leading to Peace, Happiness and Restoration of the public Tranquility—the other inevitably conducting you to Anarchy, Misery, and all the Horrors of a Civil War.[/quote] --Gov. William Franklin, address to the New Jersey Assembly, 1775, urging his fellow citizens not to exit the British Empire because only ruin would follow.


That wasn’t a civil war but a war of independence…the governor was a right eejit.


Uh… it was both.


No it wasn’t because that would be the British having a civil war. America was hiving off to become an independent country from the colonial empire and therefore it was not a civil war but a war of independence.

That’s why it’s called THE WAR OF INDEPENDENCE and why the USA is not called the U.K.


Right up until the Declaration, the colonists thoughts of themselves as Englishmen. The whole fight started over their rights as such. After the Declaration, it was a secessionist movement.

You didn’t know that?


You didn’t know it was called THE WAR OF INDEPENDENCE?

You didn’t know they were called the 13 colonies?
You didn’t know that the colonists were very diverse coming from all over Europe?

Of course they didn’t think of themselves as Englishman, what some of them wanted was equal ‘rights as Englishmen’ as they were sick of being treated as second class citizens.

You didn’t know that :)?


You remind me of an old joke. Two men in the trenches in the first World War:

First: “This is the war to end all wars!”

Second: “So why do they call it World War One?”


If Taiwan had had enough foresight to declare its independence from the mainland in 1949 Taiwan would be a recognized sovereign, independent nation today. Maybe this is Britain’s 1949. The longer it trades sovereignty for political integration with the mainland the harder it will be to extricate itself until one day it becomes impossible.

The grownup solution for all parties is free trade/low barrier agreements which facilitate economic integration without requiring political integration.


Not even. Chiang had the option to remain in the UN under the name of either ROC or Taiwan back in 1971 (aka the two Korea and two Germany scenario), but he couldn’t bare to sit with PRC, and look where we are now.


They did declare independence or at least were strongly heading in that direction.

It was callled 228 in 1947.
Allmost all cities and towns in Taiwan appointed local administrators for a month or so and then it was brutallly surprressed and local leadership class was systematically wiped out.

I didn’t realize for many years that they were effectively running the country until they sent mainland troops over to wipe them out.


The audacity of audacity.


Angling for a ghostwriting gig? :slight_smile:


What Corbyn is saying nowadays:

So now immigration is bad, because jorbs.


Is that a 180 for him? (I wasn’t following his statements closely enough to know.)


Probably, but that’s not what interests me. The thing about a weathervane is it tells you which way the wind is blowing.




Quitting over squishy Brexit:

Someone who knows little about this could take it either of two ways: either Davis is a stubborn idiot who is torpedoing Brexit, or he is a principled man who won’t go along with selling his country out.

For me, May’s reputation narrows that down. May is the idiot here.

All in all, she’s no Thatcher.


There are certain times in a country’s history where a Thatcher is required; she didn’t get everything right by a long stretch, but she was probably the right person for the job at the time.

I think this is another one of those times, and the last thing we need is May’s limp-wristed approach to a complicated, politically-critical operation. Remind me again why she’s even the Prime Minister?



I can see how the tories won, considering that labor leader thinks that Venezuela is a shining example of socialism that everyone should follow, but I don’t know why she was picked.

Affirmative action gone wrong, gone viral, almost buttfucked?


Because nobody else worth anything actually wanted the job in a minority government hamstrung by brexit and austerity ?

She’s done well to even cling on for two years . Her greatest achievement is still being PM lol. Strong and stable. Strong and stable.

She will probably be gone soon though as they will angle for hard brexit and try to blame it on the EU when the EU says you can’t have your cake and eat it for the 1000th time in two years.

Hard Brexit will crush hundreds of thousands of manufacturing and service jobs. Investment will come to a screaming halt and the UK will have a severe recession . It’s okay for those pols they can continue living off their inheritances or writing for the Daily Telegraph or popping up as a none executive director here and there. Its interesting that ministers in her government actually want this to happen . They say they don’t want a soft brexit but have absolutely no feasible alternative. They couch it in terms of ‘selling out’ and then…Nothing…Just fantasy land.