It makes me so sad. We can’t function as a country like this.


Yeah it’s an English thing…Eton…oxford…cambridge…public schools…house of lords…duchess of kent…buckingham palace…chelsea set…officers in the army with double-barrell names…Prince Charles being the biggest landowner (135,000 hectares). It’s all accepted.


In Ireland there are private schools too, but at least the toffs don’t own half the country
(we burnt some out, bought some out, left a few) and there’s a big influence on government from the regions. The President was a hippy poet. Elected.
But this isn’t about Ireland but Brexit which is the UK and understanding the motivations of the voters and the society there , hence I’m writing about England. And not about Ireland , don’t get your knickers in a twist :slight_smile: .


This doesn’t mean anything. Can you write down what are the points you are trying to make instead of using emotive words such as ‘vile’, ‘sneering’ , ‘disgusting’, ‘loathing’ and ‘resentment’?

I think you forgot ‘punish’ and ‘bully’.


attempting " operation untwist" :wink:


ouch. Be careful…manspreading!!


Add them to the list if it pleases you.

Why not think out it for a second. How are the people supportive of Brexit portrayed by those in the opposite camp? Intelligent, thoughtful and kind people who have genuine grievances that should be listened to and be given thoughtful consideration?

No. What’s worse is that those on the other side, like you, claim to not even understand the proposition being made. Do I really need to provide evidence of the vicious name calling, the smug attitude that those who think they have greater intelligence than those who they openly detest?


Currently no members of the cabinet are Etonians, small mercy I know.


Wasn’t there also a tone set from the start with constant attacks on immigrants and foreigners n the press ?

There is a sense of turkeys voting for Xmas in some of those places though. Sunderland is a classic example.


Isn’t immigration a valid topic of conversation? Don’t the people who pay taxes to the Government have a right to question how their tax money is being used?


Not the way they wrote about it in British tabloids, "disgusting " and “vile” comes to mind :).

Discussing immigration in a less discriminatory manner would be better.


I would suggest, not in the way Donald Trump discusses it either. Still, doesn’t mean there are not serious issues related to immigration that are meaningful and should be heard and discussed. Respectfully.



But doesn’t this tie in with the alienation of the white working class? People who traditionally have always voted Left are now voting otherwise. Surely it’s the role of, in this case, the Labour Party to address their concerns?

Of course, this is all assuming that Brexit voters are right wing. Back in the day membership of the EU was opposed by the unions because it weakened the power of the workers. Left wing politics has changed massively in the past 40 odd years.



The Turks ?

It’s not that the voters are left wing or right wing . They are just ordinary people but susceptible to influence like all of us.


There’s a good series of guardian videos about Walsall. It shows their local elections and how many turned against labour there. Or at least they don’t see any difference between politicians of all stripes. They feel ‘removed’ from those in power.
It looks like a right kip but the people are nice enough!


Yes, that is an issue. But they are only selling papers because they are capitalizing on an actual or perceived issue. Working class people do have agency, they arent just brainless zombies controlled by the Sun and Daily Mail


What?!? but I thought we were already in agreement that the UK was going to join Air-ah? And have Gay-Lick as the official tongue? (Anger-ish would still be acceptable for proactical purposes) And we could have Bohemaian Rapsody for a national anthem, come on it ill be great!


This is an excellent series. I really enjoy John Harris stuff, the only good Guardian journalist left.


I am starting to wonder if there is hallucinogenic mold in the food supply or something, what the hell is this