British/French Elections

Not much talk about the elections- I wonder why?
The UK was settled long ago, but it’s funny to hear the right whining how the FPTP is so unfair. Guys, you had 14 years to fix it, but you quite loved it when it gave you the advantage. Now it works the other way, you suddenly discover it’s all wrong.

In France Marie Le Pen was going to sweep the elections, until they had them and discovered the majority disliked her so much that they were willing to give up their first choices to keep her out, and then suddenly it’s the system’s fault- never mind they didn’t say a word in the run-up because they thought they were going to win.

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Are you really trying to say the Tories dont like FPTP?

They love it. Where are you seeing them whining about it?

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On the French elections, both a Le Pen and Melenchon victory were going to really put strain on the system as they want to reduce pensions age significantly and have debt ratios that exceed EU regulations.

That Macron’s party did better than expected might put some financial realism back into the equation. I have no probs with Melenchon and PS having the reigns of the National Assembly as I have mixed race family members who will be applying for naturalization in the next year. Believe they will be more liberal on that.

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At least now both sides have brought up how terrible FPTP is as a voting system, perhaps now there’s a chance for change.

Both sides of what? Both Labour and The Conservatives love it.

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Regarding the UK, I don’t know who you are shouting at. The Uniparty love FPTP. That includes the so called ‘right wing’ neoliberal Tory party.
They would never have changed a system that favours the Uniparty in the 14 years they were there.
If you look at the fringe parties that scraped votes, all of them want Proportional Representation.

Regarding France, people seem to have taken the bait from the media hook line and sinker that Le Pen had a chance. But they need the constant threat of the bogeyman ‘far-right’ Adolf will come back (not only in France), and it seems to have worked. She would be another wet lettuce like Meloni or the Dutch fella with big hair.
Not the first time the 2nd round went the way it did.
Saying that, Le Pen may well finally be allowed to get in after the shit hits the fan in France.

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Glad I wasn’t the only one to notice that.

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I don’t know enough about French politics but is Le Pen actually far right?

They called Meloni far right in Italy and foreign media was freaking out she won and continues to perform well. Is anyone who isn’t left leaning just automatically far right now :man_shrugging:

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I read a study once that concluded that if everyone in the UK voted for the party that most aligned with their own interests, the Green Party would win every time. Both the Conservatives and Labour need FPTP to win elections as they know that people vote for them to ensure the other side doesn’t win, not because anybody actually likes them. Labour’s recent victory is a case in point. Lowest voter turnout ever, because everybody knows full well that Starmer is just a continuation of Tory policies, yet they won on a “landslide” because the relatively small number of people who voted for them did so to oust the Tories. The hypocrites are those who say they love democracy, but argue that we need FPTP (a thoroughly anti-democratic system) to “keep the far-right out”. Democracy should only work for the people who vote the right way then?

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I presume he’s referring to Reform. Although, they didn’t have 14 years to fix it.

Some clarification is required, methinks.

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There was actually a referendum to change the voting system from FPTP to the more democratic, but still not ideal, Alternative Vote about 14 years ago. But not only did hardly anybody bother to vote in it, the mindless fools who did vote chose FPTP. I remember the media at the time going into overdrive trying to scare everyone about how terrible AV would be (“It’s too complicated!”, “It’ll let in the BNP!”). It was the first time I witnessed for myself the complicity of the mainstream media in propping up this fundamentally undemocratic system.

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Lawfare or no?
Not in the know to tell.

20 million voted. 42% of the voting population. 68% voted to keep things as they are.

We were not offered proportional representation, we were offered the Alternative Vote system.

For sure PR or AV would have given Farage more power. Same in this election.

Not a single one of my staff voted. I told them they could go and take time off and no one wanted to vote. They don’t believe it matters and I don’t blame them.

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Neither of the two main parties bring this up because it’s their bread and butter.

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Worked with Trump

As @BigDave said, both sides love it; broadly speaking, they get to alternate in positions of power, with barely anyone else getting a look-in. The next-best option would be a one-party state, and nobody seriously imagines that’s going to fly. So FPTP gives TPTB the best option of staying in power. In 2024 this could not have been made any more clear; the whole thing was clearly a managed handover to Labour. The Conservatives knew that Labour would simply continue with the same policies they’d put in place, except more so; and that even with a miserable minority of the population voting for them, Labour would still be able to claim legitimacy. I’m not sure if Sir Keir even realises it, but they’re going to make such a godawful mess of Britain that people will duly vote Conservative at the next election, and the charade will continue.

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Any so called democracies with FPTP is stuck with that problem. I think the US is at least good at changing the voting systems from the county up. I don’t see a way out for Taiwan or the UK, except for rare opportunities of a power change.

I hope Labour’s government won’t end up like how you described, but regardless, even if it is just the same, perhaps Sir Keir can be less incompetent compared to the last couple of PMs.

I think the biggest mistake anyone could possibly make is to assume that these people are incompetent. They are not. They are very competent, very focused, and very good at the game - terrifyingly so.

I’m not sure if Starmer is even in charge of anything at all - my gut feeling is that he’s a placeholder, rather like Dementia Joe - but whoever or whatever is running Britain has some very specific goals, and they’re ticking them off their to-do list at a rapid pace. It’s just that their goals have nothing whatsoever to do with the interests of the British people; if you start from the assumption that they are, then I suppose it does look like incompetence.

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I look at how Boris Johnson and Theresa May got removed from office, you would have to do a better job at convincing me that they are not incompetent.