[quote=“Toe Tag”] I saw Fudgepack Mountain last night…
I’m not offended by this, nor even hard core gay porn. [/quote]
What is wrong with this picture?
[quote=“Toe Tag”]I saw Fudgepack Mountain last night…
…we should stop discriminating.[/quote]
I really couldn’t say, bob.
I’m sure you could but let’s spell it out anyway. He’s not offended and believes we should stop discriminating but suggests this in a post containing offensive language that would promote discriminatory behaviour. It’s the sort of mixed message we see all over the place and no wonder. Half the world is pushing homosexual behaviour as a fashion choice, quarter are pushing to have homosexuals forced out of the clergy, schools, the military and any other place they can think of and another quarter don’t know what the fuss is about and could give a fuck either way. Add to that the changing roles of men and women, a human beings natural desire for comraderie with his/her own sex combined with, in a small majority of cases, an inbuilt aversion to sex with those same people and nobody knows what they think or feel anymore. I’m not criticizing Toe Tag. I’m saying his post is symptomatic of the world he lives in. Brokeback Mountain, from what I hear at least, brings all this out in the open where it can be discussed honestly. I wish I could do the same with a number of important people in my life. People who are gay, but wouldn’t admit it to me if their lives depended on it because, owing partially to expresssions like “fudgepacker”, are, deep down, ashamed of themselves. Or perhaps they can feel that while I may like them as people their sexual behaviour is somewhat disgusting to me. Big deal. I don’t imagine many of them are eager to go down on a woman either.
Its probably not imporant to talk about me or my relationship to the subject. I have many gay friends FWIW. I think that this movie does good for the gay cause, but does as much harm. Certainly this movie will offend many red state fascists. I am greatly amused by this, but I’m not sure its the most effective tactic. I say this primarily because the protagonists did not seem sympathetic. I think if you are gay and see this movie you will say, wow, I sure am gay. And if you are not, you will see this movie and either be disgusted (I was not) or see gay sex as, well the best word I have for it is, alien. Even though I am rather liberal, I am a little tired of the kind of “equal opportunity” boost any movie with a gay theme gets, they often get an unreasonable ratings boost. I do wish however that the USA would step up to the standards of the civilized world e.g. Europe (and also implement national health care). I guess they are worried that if gays are given rights then everyone will want them.
…
I think perhaps I should see the movie before commenting further. I had assumed that the characters were sympathetic, at least in so far as being actual human beings with a full range of feelings, and not some caricature of what the mainstream thinks a gay person is like.
Again I say, read the book instead. Although I haven’t seen the film, I think Poulx is far more of an artist than Lee and the suits in Hollywood. Horses mouth and all that.
If we’re to believe Toe Tag’s take, then Lee has missed the point of the story completely – not that I’m saying I believe Toe Tag’s take…
Well, I for one believe Toe Tag’s take. Specifically, I found the characters in Ang Lee’s Eat Drink Man Woman to be carefully and compellingly sketched. That was not the case with his Hulk, and IMHO its not the case with Brokeback Mountain. They seem one dimensional, and that dimension is: Gayness. It would be more realistic and respectful if they were portrayed as complete human beings who happen to be gay. And Ang Lee was capable of this before he went to Hollywood.
A further point: I’m male, I’m white, I’m heterosexual, but I don’t get up in the morning and make any of those things my entire raison d’etre. I will say though that, ya caint fight what ya are, and to the extent that people have discriminated against me for those aspects of my current incarnation, my reaction is along the lines of, OK, I’ll show you just how white/male/intellectual I can be, kiss my shiny white/male/intellectual arse. For example, on this very forum, in an honest attempt to shed some light on a question, I revealed some personal details about myself, only to have Tigerman throw them in my face as an attack at every opportunity.
In that case then, Lee DID miss the point. Or at least mis-portrayed the characters.
And I agree that if that’s the case, then he’s certainly capable of better. But this has become silly as the topic has strayed from your “fudgepacker” comment, which I can comment on, to the merits or shortcomings of a film I haven’t seen, which I shouldn’t comment on.
In any event here’s a comment from Rolling Stone…
Hmmm. Toe Tag or Rolling Stone. Toe Tag or Rolling Stone… decision, decisions.
I’m going to see this film. Scripted by Larry McMurty, yet? Lonesome Dove/Last Picture Show McMurty I suppose that is? Double-dipping damn! Can’t WAIT to see it!
[quote=“sandman”]Hmmm. Toe Tag or Rolling Stone. Toe Tag or Rolling Stone… decision, decisions.
I’m going to see this film. Scripted by Larry McMurty, yet? Lonesome Dove/Last Picture Show McMurty I suppose that is? Double-dipping damn! Can’t WAIT to see it![/quote]
I’ll go with you, but you can’t touch my leg.
Seriously, not even if I ask.
[quote=“jdsmith”][quote=“sandman”]Hmmm. Toe Tag or Rolling Stone. Toe Tag or Rolling Stone… decision, decisions.
I’m going to see this film. Scripted by Larry McMurty, yet? Lonesome Dove/Last Picture Show McMurty I suppose that is? Double-dipping damn! Can’t WAIT to see it![/quote]
I’ll go with you, but you can’t touch my leg.
Seriously, not even if I ask.[/quote]
If you put your paws on anyone, I will be
GREEN
EYED
MONSTER
mmm Europe genocide 10 years ago America no national health care, I see we have much to learn.
[quote=“Namahottie”][quote=“jdsmith”][quote=“sandman”]Hmmm. Toe Tag or Rolling Stone. Toe Tag or Rolling Stone… decision, decisions.
I’m going to see this film. Scripted by Larry McMurty, yet? Lonesome Dove/Last Picture Show McMurty I suppose that is? Double-dipping damn! Can’t WAIT to see it![/quote]
I’ll go with you, but you can’t touch my leg.
Seriously, not even if I ask.[/quote]
If you put your paws on anyone, I will be
GREEN
EYED
MONSTER
[/quote]
Don’t worry, jdsmith is quite safe. Even if I were gay, jdsmith would be quite safe. 
mmm Europe genocide 10 years ago America no national health care, I see we have much to learn.[/quote]
Ya know, up until now, I didn’t know this thread was in IP! 
Saw the movie this last weekend and I’d have to say it was OK. Good performances, except for the weird sex scene. If a hetero couple can enjoy this film on a Saturday night date, then I’d say that’s progress. Now I am sort of wondering about Ang Lee and his circle of friends. This movie could have also been about the bazillion married closeted gay men on this island.
As to the conservatives in the US making a big deal about the film they are 1. giving a good, but not great movie, lots of free publicity 2. being hypocrites because, as I’ve pointed out many times, they aren’t making the same big deal about movies like Hostel which shows people litterally getting ripped apart for the amusement of others (but then again, perhaps most straight men would prefer to have their fingers and limbs chopped off and themselves left to bleed to death than sit on some guy’s lap and talk about the first thing that pops up). I don’t recall the conservative crowd making a big deal when Last Tango in Paris came out on DVD. Stupid hypocrites.
[quote=“sandman”][quote=“Namahottie”][quote=“jdsmith”][quote=“sandman”]Hmmm. Toe Tag or Rolling Stone. Toe Tag or Rolling Stone… decision, decisions.
I’m going to see this film. Scripted by Larry McMurty, yet? Lonesome Dove/Last Picture Show McMurty I suppose that is? Double-dipping damn! Can’t WAIT to see it![/quote]
I’ll go with you, but you can’t touch my leg.
Seriously, not even if I ask.[/quote]
If you put your paws on anyone, I will be
GREEN
EYED
MONSTER
[/quote]
Don’t worry, jdsmith is quite safe. Even if I were gay, jdsmith would be quite safe. [/quote]
You know, that hurts man!
I’ll have you know that both sexes have found me attractive for quite some time! I have even been said, in my fatter forms, to resemble Elton John.
Please reconsider.
jdsexy
mmm Europe genocide 10 years ago America no national health care, I see we have much to learn.[/quote]
Paging Dr. Fred Smith. Paging Dr. Fred Smith. Statistics needed in IP ward.STAT! 
The most interesting thing about this movie is that “brokeback” is now and adjective describing any situation that might seem kinda gay. For example if guy # 1 starts to give guy #2 a hug, #2 can say “don’t start gettin all brokeback on me” and fend off the hug.
[quote=“Toe Tag”]
I think that this movie does good for the gay cause, but does as much harm. Certainly this movie will offend many red state fascists. I am greatly amused by this, but I’m not sure its the most effective tactic.[/quote]
I don’t “think” Ang Lee and his producers made the film to make a political statement (maybe I’m wrong), but rather as art/story-telling (isn’t this what the majority of films are about ultimately?). So from the film maker’s perspective whether it helps or hinders the gay cause is irrelevant. I also think ANY gay-themed movie is going to offend people who believe it is a sin and abomination condemned by their preachers (who claim the Bible says they should).
I agree. It’s irritating how in vogue gay stories are - a bit over done.
Actually, there are places where the partners of gay employees are given covered under their employer’s health care policy. I too wish that that was the case with every employer and in every state. A friend of mine lives in Massachussetts simply because she feels her and her partner’s civil rights are a little more protected. They SHOULD be able to live anywhere and feel that way.
Bodo