Oh, you must have been listening to Dick Cheney lately.
So, you advocate attacking the entire world? I don’t quite understand what sort of military action you propose. :loco:
You quote be mighty fine as well. With regards to intellectual honesty, I’ll let your goofy military plan stand on its own. :bravo: 
:bravo:
Oh, you must have been listening to Dick Cheney lately.
So, you advocate attacking the entire world? I don’t quite understand what sort of military action you propose. :loco:
You quote be mighty fine as well. With regards to intellectual honesty, I’ll let your goofy military plan stand on its own. :bravo: :bravo:[/quote]
Nice of you to respond to NONE of my comments.
And you are too precious! You ask me a question in your post. Answer it for me. And then you tell me my response is goofy! Classical fallacy … but entertaining.
The liberals are cracking! :bravo:
The text of my post was:
“The war against terror won’t be won as long as Bush keeps sending diverting troops from that effort in order to take out tinpot dictators who pose no danger whatsoever to the American people.”
You then went and posted a bunch of goofy stuff. Sorry that I don’t/didn’t take you seriously. If you want that to change, then start relying on facts and reasoned arguments.
Oh, you must have been listening to Dick Cheney lately.
So, you advocate attacking the entire world? I don’t quite understand what sort of military action you propose. :loco:
You quote be mighty fine as well. With regards to intellectual honesty, I’ll let your goofy military plan stand on its own. :bravo: :bravo:[/quote]
No.
Your post was this:
ASK ME A QUESTION: So, you advocate attacking the entire world?
ANSWER IT FOR ME: I don’t quite understand what sort of military action you propose. :loco:
THEN ATTACK YOUR ANSWER FOR ME: I’ll let your goofy military plan stand on its own.
But in fact, none of my posts had a “military plan” in which I advocated “attacking the world”.
[color=blue]Saddam bin Laden Spotted in Flint, Michigan Convenience Store![/color]
Continuing to insist at this point that Iraq and al-Qaida were operationally connected is about as rational as believing in Elvis sightings. You’ve got to be running on ideological fumes – or worse – to be talkin’ that shit now.
[quote=“spook”][color=blue]Saddam bin Laden Spotted in Flint, Michigan Convenience Store![/color]
Continuing to insist at this point that Iraq and al-Qaida were operationally connected is about as rational as believing in Elvis sightings. You’ve got to be running on ideological fumes – or worse – to be talkin’ that shit now.[/quote]
I guess you think it was more rational to believe that Al Qaeda was taking flight lessons in south Florida. :help:
I believe in facts. Nothing more, nothing less.
Show me some.
Look dude. I’m not going to run around finding links again for people like you that keep making me prove that man landed on the moon.
We all know that Al Qaeda was in Iraq extensively. Both the bipartisan 911 comission and the British intelligence equivalent said so. French intelligence said so too before the war. Go look it up.
What the 911 comission DID NOT SAY is that there was any conclusive evidence that the terrorist attack on 911 was related to Iraq. This I can deal with. But then agian, the main thrust for going to war was not because of Al Qaeda. This is sort of a misnomer and retwisting of recent events. We went to war over three things:
Retribution for 911 was rarely mentioned, if at all.
OK, here is a fact for you.
You want to know what Bush really meant, why don’t you ask him. There is a short interview from him yesterday on the topic here in MP3 format. I’ve uploaded it to my server:
asianoutpost.com/forumosa/bush.mp3
There is a fact for you. If you ask him, he will tell you.
I guess I was asking for too much.
Well, dude … I found an MP3 link exactly related to the thread title. If you really really really (“you” general) want to know what Bush meant when he said, “we can’t win IT”, then listen to that interview. They guy is 1000% more specific and meaningful than any Kerry speech. Kerry always says, “I will do it better and smarter” … but without any specifics. In that MP3, Bush lays it out, exactly what’s up. No more. No less. You can agree or disagree. But you shouldn’t be able to say that Bush is being elusive. If anyone is being elusive, it is Kerry with his five or six different verisons of Cambodia now.
[quote=“pinesay”][quote=“Wookiee”]
cafepress.com/ndnpress.5358989?zoom=yes#zoom[/quote]
Yep, that’s right. The Indians smoked too much of that “peace pipe” with the White Man. They should have learned that peace was not possible and hired Rumsfeld bla, bla, bla…??[/quote]
And…
You all don’t get it, do you? Or perhaps you all don’t wanna go there.
cafepress.com/ndnpress.5390575?zoom=yes#zoom
In the Americas the war against terrorism has been going on since 1492.
It did not start on 911.
[quote=“Wookiee”][quote=“pinesay”][quote=“Wookiee”]
cafepress.com/ndnpress.5358989?zoom=yes#zoom[/quote]
Yep, that’s right. The Indians smoked too much of that “peace pipe” with the White Man. They should have learned that peace was not possible and hired Rumsfeld bla, bla, bla…??[/quote]
And…
You all don’t get it, do you? Or perhaps you all don’t wanna go there.
cafepress.com/ndnpress.5390575?zoom=yes#zoom
In the Americas the war against terrorism has been going on since 1492.
It did not start on 911.[/quote]
No, Chewie, we got it.
And yes, we don’t want to go there. It isn’t really going to help save your city from getting gassed or nuked. We can sit around and watch Dances with Wolves all day, but Kevin Costner isn’t going to save “you”.
Don’t want to go there? I’m dissapointed. 
Kevin Costner’s dances with wolves was a nothing more than a Hollywood-ized sentimental attempt to assuage the guilt of the masses vis-a-vis the suffering that was brought to bear on the natives of the dakotas and elsewhere.
How does the collapse of the twin towers compare with the trail of tears or the 400 years plus of slavery and repression of people of color?
Justice for one, justice for all!
Mindless moral relativism and other drivel. Oh gee. My ancestors may or may not have done something bad 1,000 years ago, ergo I cannot defend myself now? What kind of ??? is this???
Guess what? The Indians were not some tribal innocents living in peace with the buffalo and nature. They had wars. They started wars. They were often far more barbaric than the White Man who came afterwards. Ever hear of the Mohawks? had a lot of wars. Were famous for doing all sorts of nasty things to those they captured.
As to the Africans, how to divvy up the blame? Those that captured and sold their own people or those that bought them? Then, the Muslims and Arabs were the biggest slavers and buyers for 1,000 years before Whitey got involved and when Whitey did get involved, he was too vulnerable to malaria to even penetrate the coast so just where did all these slaves come from? But you do not see too many blacks in the Middle East. Hmmmm why not? Could it be because they were castrated, murdered and allowed to starve to death when no longer useful?
The only difference is that the West ended slavery. The West is responsible for recognizing native people’s rights. See much of that anywhere else in the world? So for all our faults, we have something worth fighting for and if you are a brown-skinned person, you’d better hope to God that you live in the West where you may have some chance at having your human rights protected, living in a stable country, getting ahead economically, benefiting from medical advances. Or would you rather live “free” and “unoppressed” in a nation like Congo? Sudan? Rwanda? Burundi? Bangladesh? Indonesia? Brazil? Guatemala? Haiti? Your choice. But cut the selective morally relativist oppression crap.
Sounds like someone just got through their first sophomore year Third World political science course. What did you read? Chomsky? Liberation Theology? Cornell West? 
Marxism and Communism are a better system. The system was never really implemented though because of corrupt Western business interests which destroyed the revolution. Cuba is a worker’s paradise. It may not be rich but at least everyone is equal with good access to some of the best medical care in the world and everyone gets an education and a job.
Or… Africa is poor because Western companies are exploiting it. Latin America has huge international debt loads because exploitative Western banks FORCED them to borrow money to finance ill-advised projects. Or how about the West has set up the international trading system in such a way as to control the IMF and World Bank which force loans and unfair trade practices down poor countries’ throats and that is why they are poor. East Asia? An anomaly. They got lucky somehow because the West needed some place to outsource jobs so as to keep the labor unions at home weak and drive down domestic wages in order to better keep a grip on political and economic power at home.
Gee, Fred has got his ire up. What are you so defensive about and what are you blathering on about–Africa, Cuba, The IMF??? Stop raving man!
Come on! A wider perspective is needed. Those who don’t know their history are doomed to repeat it, as the saying goes. The US is not the first to be terrorized, nor is it the only country living in fear of terrorists. “You hit me so I’ll hit you back” Israeli-style response to terrorism, or “I will hit you because I have a feeling that you dreamt one night of hitting me” Bush doctrine will only lead to an escalation of hostilities, and it has, and it will continue I’m afraid until people start looking at root causes.
If Bubba Dubya had understood an iota of the history he purportedly reads, he would have known about the difficulties the British had pacifying Iraq and would probably not have made the same error in judgement and not have ended up in the same quagmire.
The crap thinking and refusal (historically and today) to acknowledge the existence/worth/humanity of other peoples has led the world to its present state of terror. And we cannot change it by continuing to do the same thing over and over again and expecting different outcomes.
For someone who has majored in history and has a very good understanding of it, I challenge you Wookie to prove your assertions. You can spout this Chomskyite drivel about how we are equally terrorists untill the cows come home. Have you ever hit anyone in your life? Then, let’s meet up so I can bitch slap you into yesterday while you apologize to me for your past evil actions, nay grovel while you do so so I can kick you a few times in the ribs while I am at it. Same difference no?
And so you quote Israel and the US fighting back as somehow proof that you “understand” history? Give me a break. I could just as selectively quote WWII appeasement policies.
Big difference is that Israel and the US are superior democracies that respect human rights and are being attacked by gangsters that oppress their own people. This is not about “understanding” both sides. This is about a war between right and wrong. If you cannot see that, then feel free to head over to whichever one of these countries you believe offers a superior system.
Until then, try to read more than one book and try to balance that one Chomsky book you read with something a bit more intelligent. It was Chomsky wasn’t it. What did you just read through the first chapters of 911 and go “Shit man. The man has a point. He is so deep. Like he’s right! Who are we to criticize or fight back. We have done things that were bad that we are not proud of, ergo we must not fight back at all.” Dude! Pass the doobie!
[quote=“fred smith”]For someone who has majored in history and has a very good understanding of it, I challenge you Wookie to prove your assertions. You can spout this Chomskyite drivel about how we are equally terrorists untill the cows come home. Have you ever hit anyone in your life? Then, let’s meet up so I can bitch slap you into yesterday while you apologize to me for your past evil actions, nay grovel while you do so so I can kick you a few times in the ribs while I am at it. Same difference no?
And so you quote Israel and the US fighting back as somehow proof that you “understand” history? Give me a break. I could just as selectively quote WWII appeasement policies.
Big difference is that Israel and the US are superior democracies that respect human rights and are being attacked by gangsters that oppress their own people. This is not about “understanding” both sides. This is about a war between right and wrong. If you cannot see that, then feel free to head over to whichever one of these countries you believe offers a superior system.
Until then, try to read more than one book and try to balance that one Chomsky book you read with something a bit more intelligent. It was Chomsky wasn’t it. What did you just read through the first chapters of 911 and go “Shit man. The man has a point. He is so deep. Like he’s right! Who are we to criticize or fight back. We have done things that were bad that we are not proud of, ergo we must not fight back at all.” Dude! Pass the doobie![/quote]
Fred has lost his cool. He is foaming at the mouth and threateng physical violence. I can feel the spittle from his mouth from here. No wonder he is a Bushite. He has shown his true colors–beat up all who doesn’t agree with his version of the world.
You want to bitchslap me and kick my ribs? Why? Do I threaten you or your family? Do you feel that I am going to bomb your house and destroy your precious collection of Republican memorabilia?
Wait! I am falling into your pseudo-reverse psychology trap! Heeeelp!
Is that all you can come up with, Fred?
You “understand” history? Whose history, mine?
No, of course not, yours and your professors’!
Shiiiiiit!
You understand your version of history.
History, like the war on terrorism is all about perspective.
If you are an Arab or a Native American your view of history is hardly a Republican sugar-coated “we are the new compassionate party ridding the world of evil” crap that the “want 4 more years club” is dishing out in NY as we speak.
I hate to agree with you, but you are right about one thing, this is a war about right and wrong. Both sides think they are right and that will not change as long as people (blockheads, on both sides) refuse to see that there are other options.
By the way, why do you keep assuming that I, like you, get my opinions from books. I have never read a Chomsky book in my life. It takes no great leap of imagination to see behind all the smoke and mirrors of modern day world politics. It is all so common sense as to put the word ‘profound’ into obsolescence.
Perhaps you should try thinking for yourself a bit more instead of relying on political/historical writers for your frame of reference.
Israel has a democracy. Many Israelis have good civil rights, but that also doesn’t match up with what Israel’s hardliners are doing to the Palestinians. Walled ghettos patrolled by machine-pistol toting soldiers? Seems that the Israelis internalized the completely wrong lesson from the holocaust.
Wookie:
The bitch slapping is a joke get it? Um because you did something bad (you=US or West in this case) if I (gangster Arab terrorist same difference) decide to beat you up good and proper you cannot fight back because you once hit someone. Got it? It’s called irony.
Well, the fact that you don’t read books doesn’t surprise me. I guess you are getting your chomskyite drivel second hand then from whatever you sit next to in whatever bar you happen to go to? haha
MFGR: Forgot what you said. Oh yes, Israel. Well, why not build a fence to keep people out? Very different from trying to keep people in. Last time I checked most nations had borders to keep people out. If Israel tries to keep people from illegally entering the country is that somehow wrong? End the moral relativism and realize that the Palestinians that you hear about on the news all the time are a beaten and cowed people who are being tyrannized by not the Israelis but by the Arafat gang. When push comes to shove, Sharon mentioned transfering some of the Arab villages in Galilee to compensate the Palestinians for their loss of other regions of the West Bank. They weren’t having any of it. Why aren’t these Arabs keen to join their Palestinian brethren? hahaha Surely, they would want to escape the oppression and unfairnessness as well as abject material conditions of life under the Israeli boot? No?