Bush changes tune about war against terrorism

[mofangongren]

@fred smith

Well, why not build a fence to keep people out? Very different from trying to keep people in. Last time I checked most nations had borders to keep people out. If Israel tries to keep people from illegally entering the country is that somehow wrong?

I guess when facts fail you, Fred, you just go to the old Republican standby of making stuff up. The walls go deep into supposedly Palestinian territories and block off farmers from their fields, workers from their jobs, students from their schools, and injured/sick/pregnant people from hospitals. That’s not the same as a “national border” in the conventional sense.

@fred smith

End the moral relativism and realize that the Palestinians that you hear about on the news all the time are a beaten and cowed people who are being tyrannized by not the Israelis but by the Arafat gang.

I thought you were previously trying to point out what wonderfully democratic and nice folks the Israelis were. Good to see that you recognize that the Israeli’s are tyrannizing the Palestinians. Sic Semper Tyrannus…

@fred smith

When push comes to shove, Sharon mentioned transfering some of the Arab villages in Galilee to compensate the Palestinians for their loss of other regions of the West Bank. They weren’t having any of it. Why aren’t these Arabs keen to join their Palestinian brethren? hahaha Surely, they would want to escape the oppression and unfairnessness as well as abject material conditions of life under the Israeli boot? No?

And your point is…?

[fred_smith]

My quote clearly shows that the Palestinians are being terrorized not by the Israelis but by Arafat.

Well, cry me a river. The Palestinians start three to four wars, lose them all and now cry about losing territory. Ask the South Vietnamese government how it feels about it? or better yet Germans about the loss of Pomerania, Prussia and Silesia? etc. etc. They gambled, they lost now why cannot they lose territory? No sympathy from me.

Let them build the wall. Anyone who does not like it should immediately get rid of their borders or admit hypocrisy in criticizing the Israelis for trying to keep people of of their country.

If even the Arabs of Israel don’t want to be “freed” er to join their Palestinian brethren, then what does that tell you about the “oppression” fo the Israeli “occupation?” haha

Where’s Wookie? The caricature of the mindless left that he draws for me is too rich. Must have more. Addicted to this kind of buffoonery. Please come back Wookie. haha

[mofangongren]

@fred smith

My quote clearly shows that the Palestinians are being terrorized not by the Israelis but by Arafat.

Oops. Sorry that I misread that… the phrasing was a little unconventional and so my tired eyes must have substituted “not just by Israel” for “not by Israel”.

@fred smith

Well, cry me a river. The Palestinians start three to four wars, lose them all and now cry about losing territory.

Did they start all the wars? Seems like it was a united Arab effort, not merely a Palestinian effort. However, the last of those wars was more than 30 years ago. What’s the excuse for the ghetto now?

@fred smith

Ask the South Vietnamese government how it feels about it?

I don’t see the parallel here. Are you trying to say that South Vietnam started several wars? That cannot be right. Are you trying to say that present-day South Vietnamese people have been put into a ghetto 30 years later by the North Vietnamese? That doesn’t seem to match up. The South Vietnamese were the same ethnicity, etc. as the North Vietnamese, so there doesn’t seem to be the same sort of basis for comparison to the Israeli-Palestinian situation. Fred, have you taken any logic courses or history courses?

@fred smith

or better yet Germans about the loss of Pomerania, Prussia and Silesia? etc. etc. They gambled, they lost now why cannot they lose territory?

Well, how about Israel respecting the borders they already agreed to? Don’t you think a vibrant “humane” democratic country would want to have some shred of credibility? The walls separating farmers from their fields, workers from their jobs, kids from their schools, and patients from hospitals seems just a bit inhumane to be doing 30 years after the last time that a war was going on.

@fred smith

No sympathy from me.

Didn’t expect it.

@fred smith

Let them build the wall. Anyone who does not like it should immediately get rid of their borders or admit hypocrisy in criticizing the Israelis for trying to keep people of of their country.

Again, this is not correctly analogous to a normal national border. Even the UN has condemned what the Israelis are doing. You would have to go back about 60 years to find the last time somebody tried to redraw “borders” without regard to the international community and set up ghettos inhabited by crowded masses of a minority religion who were not even allowed to leave the ghettos to go to school, work, hospitals, etc.

@fred smith

If even the Arabs of Israel don’t want to be “freed” er to join their Palestinian brethren, then what does that tell you about the “oppression” fo the Israeli “occupation?” haha

Since the Israeli’s are apparently drawing upon pretty sick source material for their handling of the “Palestinian Question”, are you suggesting that the Arabs of Israel should be “sent East” to be “resettled”?

[fred_smith]

No one cried for the borders of South Vietnam that were “disrespected” by the North. That’s my point.

Oh the UN has condemned this has it? Hah! along with what else? The Syrian occupation of Lebanon, the Turkish occupation of northern Cyprus! Bah! The UN! Quel idee!

So Israel cannot decide to change the borders? Who says? Why not? Happens every day? You should ask the Chinese about their creative map-making techniques. Where is the UN with these efforts?

[butcher_boy]

[quote=“fred smith”]No one cried for the borders of South Vietnam that were “disrespected” by the North. That’s my point.

Oh the UN has condemned this has it? Hah! along with what else? The Syrian occupation of Lebanon, the Turkish occupation of northern Cyprus! Bah! the UN! Quel idee!

So Israel cannot decide to change the borders? Who says? Why not? Happens every day? You should ask the Chinese about their creative map-making techniques. Where is the UN with these efforts?[/quote]

Fred, are you equating Israel with China, North Vietnam, Syria and Turkey (and possibly Nazi Germany)? Can you find some more ‘respectable’ nations? I’m all for the fence, if they build it on Israeli land. You have to remember that there are meant to be some kind of negotiations going on about the final status of the occupied territories. Putting the fence where it is does seem like an premptive land grab and must make talks even more difficult. Now if anything that is bad for Israel long term 'cause the only way they will get permanent peace and security is through a succesful political settlement.

[fred_smith]

Certainly, I am not comparing Israel with those nations but look what happened to Germany’s borders after World War II. Germany was a wretchedly evil nation under Hitler and got what it deserved. A lot of innocent Germans suffered and 15 million were expelled from the eastern territories and Eastern Europe. The Arabs including the Palestinians have been waging war on Israel for decades. So they lose a little. Cry me a river. Until I have my house and 2,000 hectares back in East Prussia, I ain’t losing any sleep over the poor Palestinians. Wah! Sorry, it’s Friday and I can see the light at the end of the tunnel or rather I should say I can “smell my oats” waiting for me. (Fred just did a horse rear with hooves pawing in the air). An ugly picture by anyone’s standards, but there you are.

[Rascal]

Back to the borders of 1914 (before WWI), eh fred?

[mofangongren]

Fred, do you currently live in Prussia? Did you ever live on 2,000 hectacres there? Probably not. Wars are not humane, but it is ridiculous for you to suggest that the Israelis have some right to treat the Palestinians like animals over a war from 30 years ago. Inhumane things happen in the midst of battles and in their immediate aftermath, but they should not persist for decades after the completion of a war.

The Palestinian people are there and Israel is building walls that separate them from their livelihoods. Many of the people they are treating so poorly were not even born when the last war was fought. Israel has already agreed on borders but is playing games, games that are frankly no better than anything going on with the Janjaweeds in the Sudan.

[Wookiee]

[quote=“fred smith”]Wookie:

The bitch slapping is a joke get it?[/quote]

That’s what my reference to “reverse psychology” was about. Got it?

[quote=“fred smith”] Well, the fact that you don’t read books doesn’t surprise me.[/qoute]

Now that, is not funny. :fume:

I don’t have to read American political writers like Chomsky to know left from wrong (oops, I meant right [not really]).

But I can guess that you have subscriptions to Limbaugh Letter, American Conservative and National Review. I wouldn’t even keep any of those rags in my shitter, the vitriol they spout would give me constipation.

[quote=“fred smith”] Where’ Wookiee? Please, come back Wookiee.[/qoute]

I love sparring with you to Fred, but I do have a life outside of this man’s forum. Do you?

[Wookiee]

@fred 'uni-track' smith

moral relativism, moral relativism…

Terrorism is just like Republicanism, there is just one path–“ours.” There are no alternatives. A terrorist, like a republican is like a “borg.” Resistance is futile, resistance is futile…"“There is only one way, there is only one way…”

You see, it doesn’t even matter who the head of the republican party is. They don’t vote for the leader, they vote for the collective–sorry, if you haven’t watched Star Trek, The Next Gen. you’ll probably be a bit lost.

Fred, I believe you are more intelligent, more eloquent than Bush–unless Fred, you aren’t a single entity but a collective of a million-or so-linked Republican brains in a matrix, how else do you have time to respond to everyone and do all the research that is required to argue your positions?

So why the hell Fred, would you vote for someone that is obviously less intelligent than you are? Oh, sorry! Fred and his hive do not have the luxury of independent thought!

Fred Song–Attack of the killer Republicans, Attack of the killer Republicans…Small government, small government. But wait, lets make the government bigger…homeland security, homeland security. Does not compute. Does not compute…We must contact the hive master. We must contact the hive master. (Who, by the way did not achieve his position by merit. This is a hive after all, and he rose to the top because he was closest to his daddy and his daddy’s friends.) Says the hive master: “We will stay the path. We will not lose…We will stay the path. We will not lose…We will stay the path. We will not lose.”

And Fred and his hive are caught up in the tumult of the hive leader’s eloquence and magnificent oratory and pledge the rest of their days to the cause of small govt. and laissez-faire trickle-down economics because, after all it will solve all the problems on this earth, the plight of the Palestinians, the increasing homelessness in New York (under a hive govt.), the end of terrorism, the democratization of Iraq, the compliance of France and Germany, oh sorry! they haven’t been assimilated yet, they are still resisting, and so on.

If you had a choice between moral relativism and ideological singlemindedness, would you choose an option that would not give you any options?