Bush Ratings At All-Time Low: too bad

[quote=“jdsmith”][quote=“Chris”]Bush lie #1:
“Now, by the way, any time you hear the United States government talking about wiretap, it requires - a wiretap requires a court order… [C]onstitutional guarantees are in place when it comes to doing what is necessary to protect our homeland, because we value the Constitution.” – April 20, 2004


Bush lie #2:

“The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him.” Sep 13, 2001

“I don’t know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don’t care. It’s not that important. It’s not our priority.” March 13, 2002[/quote]

So a change in priority is now a lie?[/quote]

Yes, because he explicitly stated that the priortiy would not change until bin Laden is found: “…we will not rest until we find him.” And this was only 6 months later that he said it. Not years. Six months.

By the way, does it bother you in the least that Bush said “I … really don’t care. It’s not that important” about Osama bin Laden, the guy responsible for 9/11? I am not a fan of Bush, but I was 100% behind him in the effort to invade Afghanistan and destroy al-Qaeda. His subsequent abandonment of efforts to capture bin Laden was a huge disappointment to me, though I must say it did not come as a surprise.

Chris, half of me thinks OBL is dead already. The fact that other Al qaeda leaders had stepped up to the plate at that time was probably the reason for the change in priority.

It’s really a “damned if you damned if you don’t” situation. Track him down, smoke him out…or end a wild goose chase and wait for him to pop up and red mist him.

The vehicle that OBL drove is gone now and I’m satisfied. Yet, Zarkawi and Zaharwi are driving their own now in Iraq. I say, given that, that’s where the fight should be.

jds

Yet OBL is still out there issuing tapes, which cause the US to increase its security alert to Orange on a more or less regular basis. OBL caused 9/11 - we should not rest until we a) bring him to justice or b) find his dead body.

“I want jusice. And there’s an old poster out West, I recall, that said ‘Wanted: Dead or Alive’.” - G.W. Bush

[quote=“Chris”]Yet OBL is still out there issuing tapes, which cause the US to increase its security alert to Orange on a more or less regular basis. OBL caused 9/11 - we should not rest until we a) bring him to justice or b) find his dead body.

“I want jusice. And there’s an old poster out West, I recall, that said ‘Wanted: Dead or Alive’.” - G.W. Bush[/quote]

Again, I agree with you, but I thik it is a matter of prioritites and Iraq is a higher priority right now.

[quote=“jdsmith”][quote=“Chris”]Yet OBL is still out there issuing tapes, which cause the US to increase its security alert to Orange on a more or less regular basis. OBL caused 9/11 - we should not rest until we a) bring him to justice or b) find his dead body.

“I want jusice. And there’s an old poster out West, I recall, that said ‘Wanted: Dead or Alive’.” - G.W. Bush[/quote]

Again, I agree with you, but I thik it is a matter of prioritites and Iraq is a higher priority right now.[/quote]

Now, yes, I agree. But it’s only because we made the mistake of invading Iraq (a whole year after Bush said he didn’t care about OBL, mind you).

I think that someone has a highly simplistic view of how ever-changing conditions in fact result in ever-changing priorities. Anyway, not to get back into an ontological discussion of the nature of being/becoming but it does make for a more “nuanced” :smiling_imp: :smiling_imp: :smiling_imp: view on the matter and gives one a greater understanding of how decisions are not made in vacuums.

To wait and see seems to be the answer to any difficult question related to Bush and his policies/actions, and it will be for others to deal with the mess once he is out of office, putting the responsibility and blame on those (even better if they are Democrats).

How convenient.

[quote=“Rascal”]To wait and see seems to be the answer to any difficult question related to Bush and his policies/actions, and it will be for others to deal with the mess once he is out of office, putting the responsibility and blame on those (even better if they are Democrats).

How convenient.[/quote]

This is new to political office?

Really? That does not appear to be how your new chancellor Angela Merkel views the matter. She was on record as supporting the US invasion of Iraq. She is on record as saying the one big lesson from the debacle is that the Western democracies should never ever again appear to be divided and now, where is your former chancellor, er what was his name? Schroeder? Working for the Russian OIL mafia? haha So you were right all along Rascal. It WAS ALL ABOUT oil. The problem was that you had the wrong politician. It was Schroeder not Bush.

Now how delusional and sad really.

Here’s a great chart of our fearless leader’s popularity.

pop.umn.edu/~ruggles/2004.htm

Does anyone think that Bush has failed to deliver economic growth? last check it was at 4.8 percent; political pluralism? what about Afghanistan and Iraq and Lebanon where there were elections nay not just elections but in the case of Lebanon widespread flying of American flags. Ditto for Ukraine…and pressure on tyrants in say Uzbekistan. Then does anyone think really that rights are under seige in America? Anyone lost any? And with our high score on human rights surveys (perfect scores actually), what then would lead anyone to conclude that Bush has been a failure in terms of human rights? So many confusing questions. So few proper answers… What is a thinking person to conclude?

Fred, I really don’t see what Merkel’s views have to do with that, it’s about Bush’s fuck-ups, republicans and democrats. None of those are German nor tied to Russia or Schroeder, you know …

As to the implied mafia connections - got proof? We will be waiting. :stuck_out_tongue:

Referring to your own reply?

I am sorry. I thought it might be relevant to point out that Merkel does not see Bush as a fuck up or his actions as fuckups and even supports his policies. I am merely of the opinion that you might respect the views of your own duly elected chancellor. Am I wrong?

Already posted. He is connected to Gazprom? Yes or no? Has Gazprom been connected to various mafia elements? yes or no? Let me know if you need the reports and newspaper articles again or if you have seen them but merely choose to disagree with their assertions.

Surely I respect her views but that doesn’t mean I have to agree with her.

I must have missed them. Will do a search and get back to you if I disagree.

Well then… you can disagree with her and she can disagree with Bush and I can disagree with you and I can agree with Bush and sometimes agree with Merkel and … where does it end?

By the way, on a private note, you cannot imagine or underestimate my supreme pleasure at the renewed close relations between the US and Germany and even the US and France. It has restored my world to its once again solid footing premised on close ties between Europe and America, particularly for Germany and France, and our renewed sense of shared destiny and objectives. Hurrah!

I believe that Bush as created a political mess of instability. Whether instability is better than the cruel stability of a regime like Saddam’s is debatablle, but I believe one evil was exchanged for a lesser one. Post-war Iraq sure doesn’t have much of a Marshall plan, that’s for sure. And human rights under seige in America? You bet they are. The US is scorned by nations all over the world for what’s going on in Gitmo. And the monitoring of normal citizens e-mails and telephone conversations is also without precedent. You talk about perfect scores on human rights surveys? Who’s doing the grading? Jeb Bush? In the US Big Brother IS watching. Apologists can make excuses and rationalize Bush’s actions, but civil liberties are not what they should be. And widespread American flag-waving in Lebanon? Hehehe. Sure. They bake apple pies, celebrate thanksgiving and watch the super bowl too, right? Gimme a break. :unamused:

The current American administration is a perfect example of how to squander international credibility, respect and sympathy for horrific terrorist actions. 2008 can’t come fast enough.

As long as this keeps happening, it’s a good start. :slight_smile:

[quote]
The current American administration is a perfect example of how to squander international credibility, respect and sympathy for horrific terrorist actions.[/quote]

I wonder if the Chinese are taking notes on this…

[quote=“fred smith”]Oh … he went down in history as one of our greatest presidents ever and there was no “ex” affixed to his title ala Carter. Historians meant it and he did not need to prostrate himself before Nobel Peace Prize boards or suck up to PR agencies to get glorified titles like “he meant well” and “he really cared about human rights” and “but he’s America’s best president” or “one of the best mediators” hahahah

Now, let’s look at all the human rights work that Carter has done and how many people that has helped, then let’s look at the collapse of communism in Eastern Europe, the decline of such movements in Latin America, the end to such socialist ventures in Latin America and Africa and even Vietnam going capitalist along with China and Russia and let’s ask ourselves who really was America’s most human-rights engaged president and who really deserved a “peace” prize.[/quote]

another digression . . . . ? yawn . . . . :unamused:

Bodo

Amen.[/quote]

No, Americans like Fred got what they voted for. A good chunk of us 47-49% did not.

Bodo

[quote=“jdsmith”][quote=“Chris”]Yet OBL is still out there issuing tapes, which cause the US to increase its security alert to Orange on a more or less regular basis. OBL caused 9/11 - we should not rest until we a) bring him to justice or b) find his dead body.

“I want jusice. And there’s an old poster out West, I recall, that said ‘Wanted: Dead or Alive’.” - G.W. Bush[/quote]

Again, I agree with you, but I thik it is a matter of prioritites and Iraq is a higher priority right now.[/quote]

That’s what so many of us are pissed about. It didn’t need to be a higher priority . . . but, ya know, since we invaded and everything . . . well . . . gotta kinda think about THAT now, don’t we? Should’ve finished the job in Afghanistan, first . . . and probably continued sanctions and no-fly patrols in Iraq is what I’m thinkin’.

Bodo