Bush's response to Katrina/New Orleans (Part 4)

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Have you found this thread informative? Have you changed your mind your opinion about who is responsible?

  • Informative and I changed my opinion.
  • Informative and I didn’t change my opinion.
  • Informative and I still have no opinion.
  • Uninformative but I changed my opinion.
  • Uninformative and I didn’t change my opinion.
  • Uninformative and I still have no opinion.
  • Once more, what was it all about?
0 voters

The continuing story of a storm that beat the hell out of city, and the political storm that followed…

Deliberating NOT LINKED (for now) to Bush’s response to Katrina/New Orleans (Part 3).

It’s a blank sheet… tabula rasa… what chance of a fresh start?

Probably not much.

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Fine. I will start.

For those who blame Bush for the poor federal response despite the fact that most news agencies now lay this mostly at the feet of the governor and mayor, how many would like to vote him the power to replace state and local authorities or supervise contracts and hiring procedures when corruption, patronage and incompetence are evident?

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Fred, that’s an excellent start. :bravo:

I, for one, wouldn’t. Ok, I’m not sure if I qualify for one of those who blames Bush, because I’m still waiting to get more info.

I wouldn’t want to see Bush, or any president have that power.

The question, I think, turns on developing a significant degree of independent, political infrastruction. Just as a test, I’d say that until the parties can quit jerry-mandering electoral boundaries, it’s not even a question that should be debated, but that’s just MVHO.

The people should have that power, but I’m not sure about the mechanism. Not sure that California’s method is a model to follow.

A greater degree of education in political philosophy and basic civics might be a good start… maybe. shrug What’s your best, first blush answer, fred?

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He would have to replace himself.

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[quote=“fred smith”]Fine. I will start.

For those who blame Bush for the poor federal response despite the fact that most news agencies now lay this mostly at the feet of the governor and mayor, how many would like to vote him the power to replace state and local authorities or supervise contracts and hiring procedures when corruption, patronage and incompetence are evident?[/quote]

Sorry fred but you’re way off base to excuse Bush’s lack of a quick response to the people who suffered in N.O. It was clear that the man had no plan at all to deal with a situation which was promising to occur. He simply did what he always does and sat back and waited until things got out of hand and then he took action.
As for my voting to give him the powers you stated, I would not do that but he didn’t need my or anyone’s vote to send troops and supplies into N.O. to help out those in need. As you know, Bush, if he would have chose to do so, could simply have authorized military personnel to go into N.O. to restore order, followed by vehicles to help people evacuate the city. With Bush’s orders, no government entity would have dared stopped or tried to have stop him. However, Bush chose to allow incompetent fools to do nothing while the poor folks in N.O. were forced to fend for themselves.
WHen will you admit that Bush is a horrible leader? Why do you feel the need to constantly defend this man? He is not worthy of your support.

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Just a bit here, this is part of an email I received from an old military friend whose son is part of the military relif group that has been working in New Orleans.
Here is an anecdote about a newscast he observed while there.

[quote]So that’s my news for now. I’ll try to catch you up on other things in a few days. I’ll just leave you with one more story that came out of Baton Rouge.

Yesterday, the Rev. Jesse Jackson showed up in Baton Rouge, I wished he would have showed up in Sheriff Harry Lee’s office as we would have NEVER heard from him again. He said, “Bush has NOT appointed a Single Black to head up this Katrina Relief, the Black Caucus and Black Leaders all over America are upset with him putting the Black Folks on the side and it is OUR people who are sitting on their roof tops waiting for Rescue, OUR people who are standing in line at the Superdome waiting on Food, Water and a Ride to a safe place, OUR people who have been locked down in Poverty.” and so on.

George Sell, the Anchorman for TV 9 news, responded to Jesse, “Rev. Jackson, the Mayors of New Orleans and Baton Rouge are Black, the Police Chief’s of New Orleans and Baton Rouge are Black, the Head of the LA State Police is Black, the Head of the Army conducting the Army’s operation on the Ground in New Orleans is Black, the Congressman from New Orleans is Black and for the last 40 years, the leaders of LA have been members of the Democratic Party, YOUR Party, don’t blame us like you are doing, look in the Mirror, you pull the Race Card any time you don’t get your way, we are in a Terrible Crisis and right now we need to come together and here you come to Louisiana and holler Racism, just like you do, it is NEVER EVER your fault, ALWAYS someone else, but here you are sitting High and Dry, why don’t you go out in to the waters where they are shooting at the Rescue personnel and help in the Rescue???’”

Hats off to George Sell for putting him in his place, Harry Lee would have put Jesse in his place and then some! This is a time to come together and work together, not the time to pull the race card![/quote]

Sums things up.
And now a new hurricane is heading their way.
General Honore is on the scene and handling this quite well.
To the chagrin of the MSM on site.

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I think you should read General Honore’s comments on this subject.

Other than the US Supreme Court and Congress.

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[quote=“TainanCowboy”]Just a bit here, this is part of an email I received from an old military friend whose son is part of the military relif group that has been working in New Orleans.
Here is an anecdote about a newscast he observed while there.

[quote]So that’s my news for now. I’ll try to catch you up on other things in a few days. I’ll just leave you with one more story that came out of Baton Rouge.

Yesterday, the Rev. Jesse Jackson showed up in Baton Rouge, I wished he would have showed up in Sheriff Harry Lee’s office as we would have NEVER heard from him again. He said, “Bush has NOT appointed a Single Black to head up this Katrina Relief, the Black Caucus and Black Leaders all over America are upset with him putting the Black Folks on the side and it is OUR people who are sitting on their roof tops waiting for Rescue, OUR people who are standing in line at the Superdome waiting on Food, Water and a Ride to a safe place, OUR people who have been locked down in Poverty.” and so on.

George Sell, the Anchorman for TV 9 news, responded to Jesse, “Rev. Jackson, the Mayors of New Orleans and Baton Rouge are Black, the Police Chief’s of New Orleans and Baton Rouge are Black, the Head of the LA State Police is Black, the Head of the Army conducting the Army’s operation on the Ground in New Orleans is Black, the Congressman from New Orleans is Black and for the last 40 years, the leaders of LA have been members of the Democratic Party, YOUR Party, don’t blame us like you are doing, look in the Mirror, you pull the Race Card any time you don’t get your way, we are in a Terrible Crisis and right now we need to come together and here you come to Louisiana and holler Racism, just like you do, it is NEVER EVER your fault, ALWAYS someone else, but here you are sitting High and Dry, why don’t you go out in to the waters where they are shooting at the Rescue personnel and help in the Rescue???’”

Hats off to George Sell for putting him in his place, Harry Lee would have put Jesse in his place and then some! This is a time to come together and work together, not the time to pull the race card![/quote]

Sums things up.
And now a new hurricane is heading their way.
General Honore is on the scene and handling this quite well.
To the chagrin of the MSM on site.[/quote]
Maybe you can help Urban Legends verify this one.

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Lol… just a general observation here, but what is it with reactionaries circulating and passing off as “personal” messages that are so obviously embellished with administration talking points? Copy and pasting is so old school. This isn’t even the first time they’ve been caught and they’ve ALL been caught with this crap.

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[quote=“Richardm”]Maybe you can help Urban Legends verify this one.[/quote]From Urban legends at Snopes:[quote]The one item in the e-mail that does lend itself to confirmation or denial is its closing anecdote about a newsman who supposedly answered Jesse Jackson’s assertion that no African-Americans had been appointed by President Bush to head up relief efforts with a laundry list of the names of African-Americans directing various aspects of the struggle to reclaim the city and its people from the disaster. The Rev. Jackson had made such criticisms of President Bush’s appointments while visiting Baton Rouge on 2 September 2005; George Sells (not Sell, as the e-mail would have it), a news anchor at WAFB-TV, the CBS affiliate in Baton Rouge, says he did offer as a reply to the Reverend’s assertions the comment that the Mayor of New Orleans and the commander of Army forces, Russell Honore, were African-American. (Russell Honore is head of the military task force overseeing operations in the three states hit by Katrina, and his task force is aiding search and rescue efforts, providing medical help, and sending supplies to three states in support of FEMA. Ray Nagin, the mayor of New Orleans, was elected to that position well before the onset of Hurricane Katrina.)

But that seems to be where the e-mailed anecdote and the truth part ways. George Sells asserts his response began and ended with mention of those two African-Americans, and that the rest of the lengthy list of blacks prominent in relief efforts and the suggestion that the one so quick with his charges of discrimination should go aid rescue workers as they were being shot at were added to the online-circulated account by an anonymous author.

Barbara “short sells” Mikkelson

Last updated: 20 September 2005 [/quote]

Sounds good to me…Now lets work on not getting “Stuck on Stupid.”
Read the transcript about getting “Stuck on Stupid.”
radioblogger.com/#001001%22
Watch the video of Gen. Honore admonishing a reporter about getting “stuck on stupid.”
thepoliticalteen.com/video/stuckonstupid.wmv

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Richardm – nice bit from snopes.com about that email.

TC – Thanks for submitting that email from your friend. Keep up the good work! Here’s a gold star for your effort:
*

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I’m still waiting to hear from your friends you said are serving in Iraq. Remember? The ones you said were complaining about their lack of armor? I said I would forward all the details they supply to my cousin in the US House of Representatives. I guess it wasn’t as important as you/they said.

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Again, simple question, how many here want to approve giving Bush the right to remove corrupt or incompetent state and local officials. Simple question should be simple to answer.

Some of us also could use a good read of the constitution especially with regard to the separation of powers.

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CS – Thanks for reminding me! I am still very thankful of your kind offer, which I passed on to the Marine who wrote that email (100% real, posted within minutes of receipt and in direct response to my query re: armor issues). He unfortunately didn’t respond to my note passing to him your offer – in fact, the next several emails from him were more like very short dispatches rather than responsive correspondence. I didn’t want to pester him over it and took the liberty of contacting my own congressman/senators, etc. He came back last spring and his unit is also due to be deployed back to Iraq shortly again. Got a quick note a few weeks ago from one of the other guys in his unit I’m acquainted with.

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[quote=“Tigerman in previous locked thread”]Not I, Mr. Smith. Not I.

I understand that our federal system works so that we have a more pure form of democracy at the local city and state levels and a representative democracy at the federal level. I understand and agree that the elected local city and state officials have a better understanding of the local problems and situations and circumstances than do the elected officials of our federal government.

As such, I do not want the federal government coming in to my locality and taking over and telling us how to live every single aspect of our lives.

I like the way this federalism works. Those who want to live a more conservative lifestyle can choose to reside in the so-called red states, while those who choose to live a more liberal life style can choose to live in a so-called blue state.

Can you imagine the screams of dissent were a president and or congress controlled by the party most popular in the so-called red states ordering the people who choose to live in the so-called blue states that they must live a lifestyle similar to those who choose to live in the so-called red states? Why, undoubtedly it would be every bit as loud as the cries from the people living in the so-called red states were a president and congress controlled by the party most popular in the so-called blue states to order the people who choose to live in the so-called red states that they must live a lifestyle similar to those who choose to live in the so-called blue states.[/quote]

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[quote=“fred smith”]Again, simple question, how many here want to approve giving Bush the right to remove corrupt or incompetent state and local officials. Simple question should be simple to answer.

Some of us also could use a good read of the constitution especially with regard to the separation of powers.[/quote]
Do you mean the right to do it without due process and then maybe hold them in detention somewhere? Are you suggesting we grant dictatorial powers to Bush? Do you mean there are no laws in place already? Can you prove any corruption? Is it all in your mind?

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[quote=“fred smith”]Again, simple question, how many here want to approve giving Bush the right to remove corrupt or incompetent state and local officials. Simple question should be simple to answer.

Some of us also could use a good read of the constitution especially with regard to the separation of powers.[/quote]

Uh, I answered and hope you will too.

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[quote=“fred smith”]Again, simple question, how many here want to approve giving Bush the right to remove corrupt or incompetent state and local officials. Simple question should be simple to answer.

Some of us also could use a good read of the constitution especially with regard to the separation of powers.[/quote]

Check out the due process part too. It’s a real hoot. It’s been unavoidably nullified by various decrees in the last few years but it’s still worth a look. My personal favorite part though is the separation of church and state section. It means no funding anyone’s private Apocalyptic visions with public monies but it too has largely been overridden in recent years by the mother of invention.

I’m not sure if it’s up to us to ‘give’ President Bush the right to remove corrupt or incompetent officials anymore. After all, he’s already clearly established the right to appoint them from the president on down in somebody else’s country so why would he need our approval to remove a few local screwups right here in our own country where he’s clearly in charge?

Maybe I’m missing something but I think if he really wanted to do it he’d just do it. I really don’t think he wants the trouble. He’s got more important things on his mind.

Speaking of trouble, what’s all the blood on the floor here? It looks like somebody needs to see a doctor.

Leave you guys by yourselves for a day and somebody nearly gets killed. This looks to me like the work of that bushwhacker Richardm.

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Wasn’t Fred just complaining a few pages back about how the leftie news agencies were oh so predicatably trying to foist all the blame on poor old bush when it was so obviously all the fault of the mayor and the govenor?

Heck, isn’t something along those lines his mantra or something?

On a related note Larry King asked Dan Rather today whether he was suprised by the slowness of the federal response to Katrina.

Dan Rather said “No. I was astonished”.

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And besides I don’t think this isssue has been settled properly either.

Fred: [quote]When those poor regardless of race continually vote in the same corrupt, patronage-based governments, who is to blame? [/quote]

While we are at it we might ask the larger and much more significant question “When the oil rich not only continue to vote in the same corrupt, patronage-based governments, but also sucker the religious nuts and patriotic zealots into doing the same thing, who is to blame?”

The mayor was incompetent - blame the voters, or not.

The president is incompetant - blame the voters, or not.

Fair no?