# \*BUSTED\* My little school is in peril! **URL:** \ **Category:** Teaching English in Taiwan\ **Tags:** cramschools\ **Created:** [June 28, 2019, 5:07am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/busted-my-little-school-is-in-peril/181191 "2019-06-28T05:07:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Mr\_PBH](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/mr_pbh/32/230938_2.png) [@Mr\_PBH](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Mr_PBH)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 2:29pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/busted-my-little-school-is-in-peril/181191/42 "2019-06-28T14:29:08Z")
> [@emanon](#): > > I own a business in Taiwan and I run it 100% legal. This experience tells me that the law is expensive and time consuming. Maybe, relatively speaking though, setting up a business, school or restaurant is fairly easy in Taiwan. Try it in Oakland, CA. And when legal, you aren’t f8cked with. If a reg changes, they tell you and you pay up. If you don’t, now they know it. I’d rather sleep knowing some desk jockey isn’t going to make a name off me in the morning. Again, ymmv. :idunno: ---
**Author:** ![tando](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/6f9a4e/32.png) [@tando](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/tando)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 2:40pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/busted-my-little-school-is-in-peril/181191/43 "2019-06-28T14:40:10Z")
> [@Test](#): > > Office time consisted of helping employees and the school itself avoid taxes. looking for loopholes and completely ignoring laws may be somehow different. ---
**Author:** ![yyy](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/yyy/32/12085_2.png) [@yyy](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/yyy)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 1:40am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/busted-my-little-school-is-in-peril/181191/44 "2019-06-29T01:40:06Z")
> [@Pinoco](#): > > NTC ministry of education **Department of Education** FIFY. (The central government has ministries/部; local governments have departments/局.) > [@Pinoco](#): > > It is my understanding that Buxibans are fully capable of legally teaching children aged 3-6 English as long as there is no explicit English lessons. Where did you get that idea? I thought we went over this already. > [@Legality teaching under six](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/legality-teaching-under-six/173098): > > So I have seen this brought up a few times in the past and I’ve been trying to search around on the forums for an update to this. Is it legal for a foreigner to teach 5 year olds English? In a buxiban that is. I have heard that teaching in a kindergarten is illegal but my school is a registered buxiban with only one K class (they are 5). I saw on the forums a while ago (can’t find it now) that this is technically legal now but I’m just curious… Also what would happen if caught. (deportation?) … Buxibans are buxibans, kindergartens are kindergartens, and never the twain shall overlap if they’re doing things by the book. The prohibition on foreign language lessons is for kindergartens. That one is clear. The prohibition that buxibans theoretically have is on teaching kindergarten-age kids (teaching them anything), but that one is not completely clear, and the prevailing interpretation seems to be that they can have students in that age group as long as they don’t operate as de facto kindergartens. > [@Pinoco](#): > > The problem with opening a Buxiban is that there are strict rules for eating and sleeping. Yes, because the standard is, _if they’re the right age to be in kindergarten, and they eat and sleep there, it’s a de facto kindergarten, not a buxiban_. > [@Pinoco](#): > > lax enforcement of education regulations. That part I have no trouble believing. Also, the kitchen-garage sounds credible to me, not that I would endorse it. :2cents: > [@Pinoco](#): > > To legally hold all-day class I would essentially need to open a licensed preschool and fill it with English teachers who lacked the appropriate credentials to teach in the school. If you have a kindergarten, you can’t have foreign language _classes_, period, and you can’t have foreign staff unless they’re exempt from the work permit system _and_ are qualified educare providers by the Taiwanese government’s standards. But if you can find and afford them, then I suppose you can have them interacting with the students and giving them an English language environment, without any actual English classes. * * * > [@the\_bear](#): > > Interesting point…would you escape deportation through that? In the EFL industry, deportation is typically caused by a work permit violation. If you’re permit-exempt, there can be no deportation-caused-by-a-work-permit-violation. If you’re paying bribes, you can be found guilty of a criminal charge (or several), which in some cases may be enough for deportation. * * * > [@Test](#): > > What are private tutoring laws? Perhaps there is a limit on the number of students you can tutor before becoming a school. Anyone? In Taipei, you [become a buxiban](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/legality-of-private-tutoring-in-your-apartment/70612/19) once your total student population reaches 5 (not necessarily in the same class). The New Taipei DOE buxiban regulations are available somewhere on their website for anyone who cares to dig them up. * * * > [@Test](#): > > Yes, and the whole day revolved around skirting laws so that fines could be avoided. > > Office time consisted of helping employees and the school itself avoid taxes. Think of what else you could have spent all that time doing. 🌈 ---
**Author:** ![yyy](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/yyy/32/12085_2.png) [@yyy](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/yyy)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 1:40am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/busted-my-little-school-is-in-peril/181191/45 "2019-06-29T01:40:58Z")
> [@Mr\_PBH](#): > > After the string of dead kids in the 1990s and 2000s, the rules got much tighter, especially for kindies, and the inspections became routine and real. Could you refresh our memories, briefly? ---
**Author:** ![RickRoll](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/rickroll/32/180921_2.png) [@RickRoll](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/RickRoll)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 2:35am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/busted-my-little-school-is-in-peril/181191/46 "2019-06-29T02:35:15Z")
Now, that’s a great reply! Way to go, space-one-eyed-octopus! 👏👏 ---
**Author:** ![yyy](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/yyy/32/12085_2.png) [@yyy](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/yyy)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 2:42am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/busted-my-little-school-is-in-peril/181191/47 "2019-06-29T02:42:22Z")
I’m no more an octopus than Space-Raccoon is a bear, but thanks. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Test](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Test](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Test)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 2:55am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/busted-my-little-school-is-in-peril/181191/48 "2019-06-29T02:55:02Z")
So as long as you have four or fewer kids at a time it’s pretty safe. I assume from your response every county is different? ---
**Author:** ![shiadoa](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/shiadoa/32/10295_2.png) [@shiadoa](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/shiadoa)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 2:57am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/busted-my-little-school-is-in-peril/181191/49 "2019-06-29T02:57:12Z")
Earthquakes and fires are weaker outside Taipei ? 🤔ahhh you edited your original reply 😉 ---
**Author:** ![the\_bear](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/the_bear/32/192391_2.png) [@the\_bear](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/the_bear)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 3:13am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/busted-my-little-school-is-in-peril/181191/50 "2019-06-29T03:13:39Z")
steady there ---
**Author:** ![shiadoa](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/shiadoa/32/10295_2.png) [@shiadoa](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/shiadoa)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 3:15am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/busted-my-little-school-is-in-peril/181191/51 "2019-06-29T03:15:19Z")
I am feeling somewhat left out … not being a furry creature 😔 ---
**Author:** ![dix2111](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/cab0a1/32.png) [@dix2111](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/dix2111)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 4:09am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/busted-my-little-school-is-in-peril/181191/52 "2019-06-29T04:09:11Z")
“Piles of dead kids in the 90’s and 2000’s” Wtf man I was living there in 2000 and I dont remember any piles of bodies. When did that happen? ---
**Author:** ![Test](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Test](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Test)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 4:59am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/busted-my-little-school-is-in-peril/181191/53 "2019-06-29T04:59:06Z")
I don’t either. ---
**Author:** ![calitotaiwan](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/9e8a1a/32.png) [@calitotaiwan](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/calitotaiwan)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 6:11am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/busted-my-little-school-is-in-peril/181191/54 "2019-06-29T06:11:06Z")
Sounds like OP didn’t pay off people just like the large chain schools do. You wonder how they stay open? Pay off the right people. ---
**Author:** ![Taiwan\_Luthiers](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Taiwan\_Luthiers](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Taiwan_Luthiers)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 6:36am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/busted-my-little-school-is-in-peril/181191/55 "2019-06-29T06:36:45Z")
The few Taiwanese business owners I know, all talk about giving officials red envelopes. They talk about it like it’s routine. ---
**Author:** ![tando](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/6f9a4e/32.png) [@tando](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/tando)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 6:40am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/busted-my-little-school-is-in-peril/181191/56 "2019-06-29T06:40:00Z")
> [@Test](#): > > So as long as you have four or fewer kids at a time it’s pretty safe. I assume from your response every county is different? in Taipei, it is 5 or more, so 4 or less is ok. In New Taipei, there is no lower limit to be a buxiban. ---
**Author:** ![Pinoco](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/pinoco/32/229879_2.png) [@Pinoco](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Pinoco)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 6:41am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/busted-my-little-school-is-in-peril/181191/57 "2019-06-29T06:41:06Z")
So glad that yyy joined the conversation. Yyy, you really should get into law because you seem to know every code and regulation in the book. It’s saintly what you do around here for the forumosans (especially myself). I definitely owe you a bottle of whatever you drink. Your understanding of the law is in line with mine except in regards to one one point: Buxiban age restrictions. The letter of the law does say that students under 7 should not attend buxibans. I have been told by a representative of the (moe or doe) that this regulation is not enforced in NTC. This could be due to they themselves not understanding their own guidelines or some kind of uneven enforcement. Regardless, I will double check with the appropriate regulatory agency to see what ages are restricted from attending buxibans. Thanks 😊 ---
**Author:** ![tando](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/6f9a4e/32.png) [@tando](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/tando)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 6:43am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/busted-my-little-school-is-in-peril/181191/58 "2019-06-29T06:43:44Z")
> [@Pinoco](#): > > The letter of the law does say that students under 7 should not attend buxibans. which law is it? Some local governments may have that rule, but it is not a national rule, iirc. There is a draft to add the rule,but it is not effective yet, as far as l know. ---
**Author:** ![Pinoco](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/pinoco/32/229879_2.png) [@Pinoco](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Pinoco)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 6:52am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/busted-my-little-school-is-in-peril/181191/59 "2019-06-29T06:52:35Z")
That I cannot say. This is just my broad understanding. It is notable that when I was visited by the inspector that they didn’t mention the age of my students. ---
**Author:** ![tando](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/6f9a4e/32.png) [@tando](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/tando)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 6:53am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/busted-my-little-school-is-in-peril/181191/60 "2019-06-29T06:53:49Z")
> [@Pinoco](#): > > That I cannot say then, why do you know the letter of the law does say that students under 7 should not attend buxibans. ---
**Author:** ![Pinoco](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/pinoco/32/229879_2.png) [@Pinoco](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Pinoco)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 7:12am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/busted-my-little-school-is-in-peril/181191/61 "2019-06-29T07:12:58Z")
I’m not an expert in the matter but, as yyy says, there is some sort of prohibition against preschool aged kids in buxiban. [Previous page](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/busted-my-little-school-is-in-peril/181191.md?page=2) [Next page](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/busted-my-little-school-is-in-peril/181191.md?page=4)