Buying a scotish fold cat

Life Pets & Domestic Animals
21

I appreciate everyone’s opinions here. No one loves animals (cats) as much as I do. Truly.

I personally don’t believe though that buying a cat from a pet shop instantly equals animal cruelty. I can see how it can go down that line of thinking, but doesn’t necessarily have to. Not everyone selling pets is a nightmare. Not every breeder is a money-grubbing rotten piece of crap. The industry here obviously needs some regulations and guidelines. I’ll agree to that. But I can’t paint them all with the same brush.

That being said, I wholly support the idea of adopting animals. People are doing great things there. It’s to be commended. If that can work out for ya, that’s great.

22

You should also know that I’m acting as the pit bull here because I’m not so closely involved as bobepine and Stray Dog. They have to be really careful not to come across as self-righteous and holier-than-thou, because that’s counterproductive to what they’re trying to achieve, but there are times when something really needs to be said in very plain speech.
I’ll continue to do it whenever I see these subjects brought up but it’s not meant as a personal attack on anyone (apart from the breeders). I just want to make people maybe think twice or three times about exactly what they’re supporting when they buy an animal from a breeder/shop here. It doesn’t matter if there are one or two “nice” breeders – you’re not supporting them, you’re supporting the trade in general.
And I know what it’s like to want a particualr animal – there’s a shop on Roosevelt selling giant chameleons right now and god! I would SO like to have a pair of them. But I won’t, for all the reasons I’ve stated above. And it’s extremely unlikely I’ll EVER find a stray or abandoned one, so I’m shit out of luck.

Peace and enjoy your four-legged companions.

23

I think Sandman is just upset because you spelt “Scottish” wrong :grandpa:

24

Very obviously, you meant to write British Bull Dog. :unamused: :wink:

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I do, because I know that there is not one pet shop in Taiwan that is supplied by a reputable breeder. There are no reputable breeders in Taiwan, full stop. If you think you can prove otherwise, then go right ahead.

Like I said, find me one breeder in Taiwan that could pass muster in N. America or Europe. Until then, I’m quite happy to paint every last pet shop owner and breeder in Taiwan with the same brush, and I’ll paint you and anyone else who buys a mutant animal from one of these places with a similar brush if you do go through with it.

Since you don’t seem to care about the ethical problem of buying an animal that has come to you at the cost of many other dead animals, I’ll try to explain it to you in a way that should convince nearly everybody: badly bred or inbred animals, which is what every animal from a Taiwanese breeder is, cost a damn lot of money to keep. If you buy or adopt a Scottish fold that was bred in Taiwan, you are very likely to be into the vet often and then see the animal die young. These animals do not last. They are genetically weak and no amount of care is going to change that. Our vet here in HK, where the situation isn’t nearly as bad as in Taiwan, says that nearly every large pure (in)bred dog from a local shop or breeder that he sees here has both heart disease and joint problems by the age of 5 or 6, and these are just the most common problems among them; many of them also develop vision or hearing problems at an early stage. Many of them are also epileptic, and a good number of them develop quirkly types of cancer. It is not a lifestyle problem. There are plenty of dogs from N. America and Europe here in HK. Our vet says he only sees these dogs for their yearly check-ups and shots. Nearly every bred cat he sees has immune system problems from a young age. For both the dogs and cats, many of them have chronic depression problems. Why on earth would you want to buy an animal that will likely never be healthy?

Managing the health of any bred dog or cat, even one from a reputable breeder, is nearly always more expensive than for a mixed breed. I figure that the only way you can get a pure bred of any sort whose health will be manageable is to bring one back from N. America or Europe. Otherwise, you’re supporting worthless scumbags and putting a bigger than necessary dent in your own finances.

26

Hell…its summer time and that means…Bar-B-Que!

whar kin I gets me a pig?

the above post is meant for comic relief. although I do like roast pig

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I do, because I know that there is not one pet shop in Taiwan that is supplied by a reputable breeder. There are no reputable breeders in Taiwan, full stop. If you think you can prove otherwise, then go right ahead.

Like I said, find me one breeder in Taiwan that could pass muster in N. America or Europe. Until then, I’m quite happy to paint every last pet shop owner and breeder in Taiwan with the same brush, and I’ll paint you and anyone else who buys a mutant animal from one of these places with a similar brush if you do go through with it.

Since you don’t seem to care about the ethical problem of buying an animal that has come to you at the cost of many other dead animals, I’ll try to explain it to you in a way that should convince nearly everybody: badly bred or inbred animals, which is what every animal from a Taiwanese breeder is, cost a damn lot of money to keep. If you buy or adopt a Scottish fold that was bred in Taiwan, you are very likely to be into the vet often and then see the animal die young. These animals do not last. They are genetically weak and no amount of care is going to change that. Our vet here in HK, where the situation isn’t nearly as bad as in Taiwan, says that nearly every large pure (in)bred dog from a local shop or breeder that he sees here has both heart disease and joint problems by the age of 5 or 6, and these are just the most common problems among them; many of them also develop vision or hearing problems at an early stage. Many of them are also epileptic, and a good number of them develop quirkly types of cancer. It is not a lifestyle problem. There are plenty of dogs from N. America and Europe here in HK. Our vet says he only sees these dogs for their yearly check-ups and shots. Nearly every bred cat he sees has immune system problems from a young age. For both the dogs and cats, many of them have chronic depression problems. Why on earth would you want to buy an animal that will likely never be healthy?

Managing the health of any bred dog or cat, even one from a reputable breeder, is nearly always more expensive than for a mixed breed. I figure that the only way you can get a pure bred of any sort whose health will be manageable is to bring one back from N. America or Europe. Otherwise, you’re supporting worthless scumbags and putting a bigger than necessary dent in your own finances.[/quote]

You’ve got it all figured out now haven’t you.
Hope that works out for ya.
My cats are healthy and happy.
Hope yours are too.
Cheers.

28

Mer,

Do what you feel is right. If that is the breed you want, then go ahead and get it. I’m sure you’ll make an excellent cat-parent, and don’t let anyone talk you out of it.

29

[quote=“masks”]Mer,

Do what you feel is right. If that is the breed you want, then go ahead and get it. I’m sure you’ll make an excellent cat-parent, and don’t let anyone talk you out of it.[/quote]

It’s always a good idea to read a thread before posting. Mer is not looking for a cat. It’s den who is looking for a specific cat. That’s pretty basic to understand if you actually read the thread.

Regardless, your post sheds strong light on a few things. For one, I can understand better why there are so many illegal and questionable breeders in Taiwan. It’s simple really, the business is good. Lots of careless customers who completely bypass compassion for animals, just because they WANT a “pure” breed. They pay huge amounts for it too. Then they’ll say “but I love my cat dearly…” :s

Many others had to suffer in order for this cat to be in your home, you better look after that cat VERY well… :slight_smile:

As mentioned, pure breeds often are more susceptible to diseases and various health issues. Now that’s one thing. Add this to the fact that, for cultural reasons, people will not euthanize an animal in Taiwan. Instead, the animals end up back on the street when they are somewhat old and sick. And that’s not all. Then add to this the other well known fact that Taiwan is not well regarded in the eyes of the international community in terms of animal health, in big parts because of questionable breeding practices and a long history of animal abuse. So yes, glad that your cat, at least, won’t end up on the street since you love it so much…

My point is, considering how many animals suffer while being used by breeders, then considering how many of them end their lives as sick strays… That’s a whole lot of animal suffering generated by the Taiwan animal breeding industry. It’s a whole lot of animals and it’s a really big “bypass” to bare when buying an animal in Taiwan.

The only thing that will change this ongoing animal disaster, is when enough people will stop patronising the animal trade in Taiwan.

Now keep posting your opinions if you wish, it’s fair play here. But do not expect sensibilized animal lovers to not do the same. I said your post was shedding light on things. Mostly it’s telling me that there is a long battle ahead in order to see things improve on this small island. But things will change. Things ARE changing. :slight_smile:

30

Amen to that.

And Mer? You wrote above that you “love cats, truly I do” or words to that effect. I take issue with that statement – you love ONLY YOUR cats. Else how can you live with helping to perpetrate this evil business?

31

Amen to that.

And Mer? You wrote above that you “love cats, truly I do” or words to that effect. I take issue with that statement – you love ONLY YOUR cats. Else how can you live with helping to perpetrate this evil business?[/quote]

Oh, so my buying a cat from a pet shop all of a sudden means I love only my cats and I’m cruel to animals. You don’t know me. And this is getting real silly folks.

Well, with that line of thinking, I’m going to bow out of this discussion. I’ve said what I wanted to. I agree with some aspects of your opinions, but not all of it. I’m a compassionate human being, but I’m not out to save all the world’s cats and dogs and so on and so forth. I don’t give a rat’s ass (uh oh, now I don’t care about rats either…I imagine you’ll be soon getting on me for that too) if you think badly of me buying a cat from a pet store.

32

Don’t be obtuse. Your buying a cat from a pet shop means you’re helping perpertuate a cruel and brutal trade. No more, no less. I merely questioned how someone who claims to be an animal lover can equate that claim with his actions.

33

What i don’t understand is why do people choose a particular breed of animal, Why a scottish fold??? Does this cat perform better than other cats? Does it do tricks? Does it cook breakfast? What is the major difference between a mongral cat and a scottish fold apart from the main fact that the scottish fold is an inbreed and we know that that isn’t a good thing. So again i’ll ask, why oh why do people pay $25,000 and up for an inbred animal when they can get a very lovely, handsome/beautiful, smart mix for a donation. Not only is it cheaper, it also saves many lives and the animal in general is much healthier.

It is sad that people still buy animals in this country when so many are suffering. Each and every day i see a dog or a cat in some kind of pain. I will truely never understand why people would encourage the over breeding of animals.

Of course it is everyone’s own personal choice and some people are much more adpt to turning a blind eye to the pain around them and the suffering that they are part of.

34

[quote=“Mer”] You don’t know me. And this is getting real silly folks.
I’m a compassionate human being, but I’m not out to save all the world’s cats and dogs and so on and so forth.[/quote]Who asked you to save animals? There is a very distinguishable line between saving animals and refusing to patronise a trade that perpetuates animal suffering. The former requires time, money and dedication. The latter requires a simple compassionate choice. And BTW, we can’t save them all. There are too many.

Anyways, no one is telling you that you are a bad person because you bought a cat. We are telling you that we think that it’s not thought out well. And when things are not thought out well, consequences are imminent.

[quote=“UKbikerchic”] So again i’ll ask, why oh why do people pay $25,000 and up for an inbred animal when they can get a very lovely, handsome/beautiful, smart mix for a donation. Not only is it cheaper, it also saves many lives and the animal in general is much healthier.[/quote] Excellent question.

Check it out, this one was recued about six months ago.

Isn’t she pretty? Just a great companion too!

Best regards.

35

Don’t be obtuse. Your buying a cat from a pet shop means you’re helping perpertuate a cruel and brutal trade. No more, no less. I merely questioned how someone who claims to be an animal lover can equate that claim with his actions.[/quote]

Preach, preach, preach.

Curb your dogma.

36

Don’t be obtuse. Your buying a cat from a pet shop means you’re helping perpertuate a cruel and brutal trade. No more, no less. I merely questioned how someone who claims to be an animal lover can equate that claim with his actions.[/quote]

Preach, preach, preach.

Curb your dogma.[/quote]
So. You don’t have an answer. I’m not surprised. I can’t think of the equation either.
Pretty cat, bobepine.
Sorry Mer, this is one subject you will NOT stop me “preaching” about. I understand that you may not have thought out your decision to buy a cat or that you might not have known about the extent of the cruelty of which your cat is a product, but I won’t back down while you continue to try to defend your decision even after being made aware of what it is you’ve done.
You know, you could just say: “Shit! I had no idea! How awful!” It wouldn’t make you love your cat any less and we wouldn’t be having this argument.
There is NO upside to pet breeding in Taiwan. None. At all. Its indefensible.

37

Don’t be obtuse. Your buying a cat from a pet shop means you’re helping perpertuate a cruel and brutal trade. No more, no less. I merely questioned how someone who claims to be an animal lover can equate that claim with his actions.[/quote]

Preach, preach, preach.

Curb your dogma.[/quote]

It’s funny. Mer, your name, souds like the name we attribute to our cats special meows. No jokes. It’s when they purr and they meow at the same time. It makes a weird meowy/purry sound. We call it the “Merrrr.”

BTW, no one is preaching here. The world is composed of all kinds of people with different opinions. You know that. So address the message, not the messenger, please.

Best,

Chris
Pets & Other Animals
Co-moderator

38

Don’t be obtuse. Your buying a cat from a pet shop means you’re helping perpertuate a cruel and brutal trade. No more, no less. I merely questioned how someone who claims to be an animal lover can equate that claim with his actions.[/quote]

Preach, preach, preach.

Curb your dogma.[/quote]
So. You don’t have an answer. I’m not surprised. I can’t think of the equation either.
Pretty cat, bobepine.
Sorry Mer, this is one subject you will NOT stop me “preaching” about. I understand that you may not have thought out your decision to buy a cat or that you might not have known about the extent of the cruelty of which your cat is a product, but I won’t back down while you continue to try to defend your decision even after being made aware of what it is you’ve done.
You know, you could just say: “Shit! I had no idea! How awful!” It wouldn’t make you love your cat any less and we wouldn’t be having this argument.
There is NO upside to pet breeding in Taiwan. None. At all. Its indefensible.[/quote]

God, we are going in circles here my friend.

Look, I already told you in posts on this thread and in a private message or two to you, that I agree with quite a bit of the information you have presented here, and the argument for getting a cat from a shelter or organization rather than a pet store. You quickly overlook that in shamelessly hammering away at your opinion here and calling me someone who is cruel to animals as a result of buying a pet from a shop, and not ‘loving all cats’. Sorry, that’s just lame.

My point simply was that no one here has proved to anyone that every single breeder in Taiwan is an awful human being and doing horrible things within the industry. Jive Turkey made some comment that I should prove that there are reputable breeders here in Taiwan. I’m not the one trying to suggest that they are all evil. So maybe Jive Turkey should prove that ALL these breeders are as bad as he/she suggests they are. I’m not the one making the allegations. You even told me yourself that there is a lady you know of who breeds Afghan hounds and loves them as though they were her kids! I’ll agree there are some horrible things going on, I never said anything to the contrary to this point. But 100% evil? I’m sorry, that’s laying it on a bit thick.

From what I’ve learned here in the last few days of this thread, or had rammed down my throat it seems, if I was to ever buy another pet while living in Taiwan, I would certainly consider adopting one. Honest. But I resent someone calling me ‘cruel to animals’ because I chose a couple of cats from a store I felt was run by nice people 3 years ago. It’s not like I was looking in a book and decided ‘oh my, I must have a Scottish fold and a long-haird Persian type’. I went to the store on Christmas day with my wife and picked out a couple of cats as pets. And no, they weren’t $25000 each. If that makes me a bad person in your eyes, well, so be it. Not much I can do about that.

Because of my good experience with my cats Lauban and Vader, I posted an address for a guy, den, looking for a cat that is the same breed as mine, thinking it would help him out and he could decide for himself what he wanted to do. I had no idea it would strike such a nerve.

39

And that, my friend, is all I wanted to hear.

40

Don’t be obtuse. Your buying a cat from a pet shop means you’re helping perpertuate a cruel and brutal trade. No more, no less. I merely questioned how someone who claims to be an animal lover can equate that claim with his actions.[/quote]

Preach, preach, preach.

Curb your dogma.[/quote]

It’s funny. Mer, your name, souds like the name we attribute to our cats special meows. No jokes. It’s when they purr and they meow at the same time. It makes a weird meowy/purry sound. We call it the “Merrrr.”

BTW, no one is preaching here. The world is composed of all kinds of people with different opinions. You know that. So address the message, not the messenger, please.

Best,

Chris
Pets & Other Animals
Co-moderator[/quote]

Sorry guys. I felt things were rather preachy though. A lot of threads on Forumosa get that way IMO.

When someone calls me obtuse, or suggests I don’t love animals, or that in their opinion I perpetrate animal cruelty because of their logic and undertanding of an issue, and they don’t know me at all, I am going to defend myself. The world is indeed composed of all kinds of people with different opinions. I felt my opinion was valid too. And I will defend that.