Buying a small second hand Van

Life Cars & Motorcycles
1

My girlfriend and I recently moved to Taitung, and are now in need of a vehicle. A small van seems to the smartest choice, as we’d like a vehicle to sleep in, as well as shuttle surfboards and other camping equipment. I searched around for advice under Topic, “buying a second hand van,” but the information was mostly for larger variety vans.

Our empirical research thus far has the Mitsubishi Varica at the top of the list, followed by the Ford Pronto, the Suzuki Every, and a cmall VW van. We’re looking to spend less than 60,000 Ntd, and would greatly appreciate all advice regarding maintenance issues, general reliability, part availability, fuel efficiencyand any other information regarding this category of vehicle.

Lastly, any recommendations for other types of vehicles (i.e. station wagons), which would be suited for camping trips, will be equally useful.

Much appreciated,
Greg :slight_smile:

2

I can’t really think of any small van which would suit your needs regarding surfboards and enough room to sleep in, but I’m not a surfer either. The budget you have in mind is also very low for a quality van off the typical used car market. Finding quality at that price is a difficult thing and I don’t think the average reliability factors will be relevant to this budget as most vans at this range will have been fairly abused already so you’ll be dealing with the unpredictable at best. I believe for that budget you should be making the best of anything that is available regardless of what it is.
I think a more realistic budget for a van would be around 100,000NTD at least to begin to see some quality of sorts and even then it isn’t often easy to find a good one as probably all will still require some level of attention. There are simply too many abused vans to sort through at low budget range so anyone will have their work cut out. I once helped to locate a van for a surfing couple at a very low budget and it wasn’t easy to say the least. The best vehicles at a low budget are easily the T4s in my opinion, but still around 100,000NTD and over and still with faults to repair. I know that isn’t what you want to hear, but they do seem hardier than other vehicles as they reach their old age.
The only other thing I would suggest is mentioning your search to as many friends and family if you have them as occasionally word and mouth can lead to some results and may help find a private seller. This may save you the added amount a dealer will charge once they have given the vehicle a cheap respray and a clean, but can often of course be a much slower method of sourcing.

Sorry I can’t be of more help.

One final tip: In my opinion at least try to find vehicles with accessible engine bays as they are simpler to work on which reduces costs and increases the possibility of managing road side maintenance and repairs. Front engined T4s and Freecas at least allow this. The easy engine access may also allow you to inspect the vehicles more easily when purchasing.

On vans bare in mind that those fitted with factory rear seats will generally offer a more subtle ride for passengers as opposed to those without, which tend to have tenser springs to deal with heavier commercial weight. Van springs are particularly prone to cracking and splitting due obviously to heavy loading and they can be expensive and time consuming to repair. I’m not trying to single out springs as the only important components to check when buying, as of course there are far many others, but they do tend to be very common faults when checking.

Good luck!

3

Thank you very much for the information. Although it isn’t exactly what we want to hear, it is nevertheless necessary.

You mentioned the rear springs as something to be cautions about. Are there any other specifics you could think of worth checking on this type of vehicle?

We’ve seen the Freeca and also the toyota zace, and heard of someone who recently purchaced a zace in, “good,” condition for 55,000 NTD. Would you consider this type of car more practical/easier to maintain in general.

I feel as though after I find a few specific models/vehicles it will be easier to ask specific questions. I guess these posts are mostly to weed out specific problem makes/models before investing too much time into the search.

We have seen MANY Varicas floating about, which is why it is at the top of the list, any advice specifically regarding them?

Thanks Again :slight_smile:

4

[quote=“gbt203”]Thank you very much for the information. Although it isn’t exactly what we want to hear, it is nevertheless necessary.

You mentioned the rear springs as something to be cautions about. Are there any other specifics you could think of worth checking on this type of vehicle?

We’ve seen the Freeca and also the toyota zace, and heard of someone who recently purchaced a zace in, “good,” condition for 55,000 NTD. Would you consider this type of car more practical/easier to maintain in general.

I feel as though after I find a few specific models/vehicles it will be easier to ask specific questions. I guess these posts are mostly to weed out specific problem makes/models before investing too much time into the search.

We have seen MANY Varicas floating about, which is why it is at the top of the list, any advice specifically regarding them?

Thanks Again :slight_smile:[/quote]

The Zace (station waggon) does get used by surfers, and is big enough to sleep in. Its bonneted so engine access is good, and a crash will be more survivable than in the forward-control Varica.

They’re occaisionally for sale by homeward-bound foreigners, probably the safest/cheapest way of buying a car (here) from a stranger.

They do also get used by builders, but perhaps less so than the vans, and abuse on that scale will probably be detectable in a budget car. Its big and boxy (2 engine sizes available but the smaller wont necessarily be much less thirsty) so a Varica will probably have a lower fuel consumption.

Experience with a Zace truck purchase is described in the recent “yellow truck” thread and its spin-offs

Both are generally regarded as reliable. Neither (AFAIK) has a repair manual available, but that’s probably not a consideration for you.

5

Not to try and sound argumentative or try to scaremonger, but everything should be checked on any type of used vehicle. There are literally thousands of things which could go wrong on any vehicle. It is difficult for me to create a short list of things to check as our short list has 200 points on it and those don’t cover all of the things we pay attention to. From my own experience what most people call a “good quality” used car for little money tend to harbour a good list of faults ranging from unroadworthy to out right dangerous; not to say that a good number can’t be repaired sufficiently before sale. The trick is to identify as much as possible that is wrong with any vehicle before the cost becomes the buyers and not the salesman’s. I understand that you’re asking for a short list of most common faults found on a specific vehicle, but I don’t have a very short list to offer I’m afraid. Basically check everything!

6

Good info regarding the Zace, and we’ll definately be putting more vehicles with easily accessible engine bays at the top of our list. Right now the plan is to put some advertisements up in our school and hopefully get a local contact who has an extra car to sell. This may largely dictate the pool of options. The van’s what we want, while it may be more practical for something else.

Thanx again

7

Today we checked out a Mitsubishi Varica Van, 130,000 miles, year 2000, didn’t get the engine size… the body was in good shape, we took it for a drive, only into 4th gear, but it ran very smoothly. I took a quick look underneath and all the leaf springs looked good, and only noticed one patch on the muffler. It was a bit dirty/cruddy underneath, apparently owned by a farmer (the interior was pretty beat up). We are dealing with a middle-man, he had two used cars for sale, it seemed to be a bit of a side business.

I took a quick look at the engine as well (to the best of my abilities) and the main engine belt looked new and i didn’t notice any cracks on hoses etc…

They had no paperwork regarding work done to the Van, and no owner history,which was dissapointing, only the story about the Farmer.

They’re asking 80,000 NTD…

Our boss’s friend who is a used car salesman is gonna check it out tomorrow to see what he can find out.

Any advice regarding the Varica would be extremely helpful, specifically if they have a tendancy to crap out around 130000 miles.

Browsing through posts searching for Varica info., I came across some regarding the little blue truck style…are little blue trucks that excellent to drive around in, and maintain?..They sound pretty ideal actually.

8

[quote=“gbt203”]Today we checked out a Mitsubishi Varica Van, 130,000 miles, year 2000, didn’t get the engine size… the body was in good shape, we took it for a drive, only into 4th gear, but it ran very smoothly. I took a quick look underneath and all the leaf springs looked good, and only noticed one patch on the muffler. It was a bit dirty/cruddy underneath, apparently owned by a farmer (the interior was pretty beat up). We are dealing with a middle-man, he had two used cars for sale, it seemed to be a bit of a side business.

I took a quick look at the engine as well (to the best of my abilities) and the main engine belt looked new and i didn’t notice any cracks on hoses etc…

They had no paperwork regarding work done to the Van, and no owner history,which was dissapointing, only the story about the Farmer.

They’re asking 80,000 NTD…

Our boss’s friend who is a used car salesman is gonna check it out tomorrow to see what he can find out.

Any advice regarding the Varica would be extremely helpful, specifically if they have a tendancy to crap out around 130000 miles.

Browsing through posts searching for Varica info., I came across some regarding the little blue truck style…are little blue trucks that excellent to drive around in, and maintain?..They sound pretty ideal actually.[/quote]

Probably not. They’re dangerous (no frontal protection), cramped if you’re tall, and the engine access is awkward, (as already noted). From my (very limited) experience they are fairly unpleasant to drive, but they are very practical.

It may, however, be academic, since, according to the “little yellow truck” thread, foreigners cannot register a truck in their name. This may not be “true” (ie, it may be a local interpretation of the rules) but its the best information we have at this time.

9

I believe that foreigners can own and register a truck, but only if they’re business owners. Teaching English at a buxiban does not make one a business owner, but owning a LEGAL buxiban would probably qualify. Anyone owning farmland can register the vehicle for farm use, but foreigners cannot own farmland.

good luck,
DB

10

Vans can be registered by anyone. As long as it doesn’t have a flat bed rear then everything should be fine.

11

Well, the OP asked about trucks so I was responding to that.

Slightly OT but I wonder where and how they draw the line?

Are car-based pickups like that Jumbuck thing, or the Datsun/Sunny pickups, or that VW thing that I can’t remember the name of, still “trucks” (or whatever the regulatory term is that means foreigners can’t have one)? I guess so.

What about open 4X4’s with a tailgate? I’ve seen a short-wheelbase Suzuki (Escudo?) with an enclosed (but I think removable) front cab and a tiny open load-bay behind. Is that a “truck”? I guess not.

Seems arbitary, discriminatory and generally bloody irritating.

12

…Are car-based pickups like that Jumbuck thing, or the Datsun/Sunny pickups, or that VW thing that I can’t remember the name of, still “trucks” (or whatever the regulatory term is that means foreigners can’t have one)? I guess so. …Seems arbitary, discriminatory and generally bloody irritating.[/quote]

You’d be right there. That’s why I mentioned flat beds and not trucks as I believe its the flatbed that qualifies it as a Taiwan " commecial vehicle" or whatever they want to call it.
It doesn’t make any sense at all, but since when did that make a difference? I think the best way to get around this law is to have someone chop up an old KawasakiB1, use the front end off it plus the rear axle from a small car, then add a sort of higgledy pigledy framework effect with a flat bed on the back. Make sure you add lights but that they don’t work, then load it up to the moon with junk. This way you will not be required to have insurance, plates or even a license thus chugging straight through not quite a loophole in the law, but more like an express tunnel with a priority lane. You can produce all the polution you desire to this way and everyone will secretly wish they could get away with the same.

13

Funny you should say that. I’ve been semi-seriously considering it, using my semi-defunct Zing as a starting point, and if the fuckers won’t let me have a truck I just might do it. I know the Zing isn’t really polluting enough, but I have some other design ideas that will add compensatory danger and illegality.

I don’t THINK it is actually a “loophole in the law”. I think its just a case of an established “custom and practice” where the law is not enforced, though I did notice them in one of the roadsigns in the computer-based driving “written” test, so there’s some official acknowledgement.

It would be interesting to see if the same blind eye were turned to a foreigner driving one. Test Case, anyone?

Your flatbed criterion invites the question, “How do you (or they) define a flatbed?”. The two cases I mentioned (car-based pickups and 4X4’s with tailgates) aren’t obviously different in that respect.

IF a flatbed were defined as a flat load area with drop sides, then most US-style chassis-based pickups don’t have them, but could quite easily be converted to have them. A possible loophole in the law?

14

[quote=“Ducked”]Funny you should say that. I’ve been semi-seriously considering it, using my semi-defunct Zing as a starting point, and if the fuckers won’t let me have a truck I just might do it. I know the Zing isn’t really polluting enough, but I have some other design ideas that will add compensatory danger and illegality.

I don’t THINK it is actually a “loophole in the law”. I think its just a case of an established “custom and practice” where the law is not enforced, though I did notice them in one of the roadsigns in the computer-based driving “written” test, so there’s some official acknowledgement.

It would be interesting to see if the same blind eye were turned to a foreigner driving one. Test Case, anyone?..[/quote]

I think you should use it to start your own Taxi service after painting it yellow and really push the boat out some.

15

[quote=“sulavaca”][quote=“Ducked”]Funny you should say that. I’ve been semi-seriously considering it, using my semi-defunct Zing as a starting point, and if the fuckers won’t let me have a truck I just might do it. I know the Zing isn’t really polluting enough, but I have some other design ideas that will add compensatory danger and illegality.

I don’t THINK it is actually a “loophole in the law”. I think its just a case of an established “custom and practice” where the law is not enforced, though I did notice them in one of the roadsigns in the computer-based driving “written” test, so there’s some official acknowledgement.

It would be interesting to see if the same blind eye were turned to a foreigner driving one. Test Case, anyone?..[/quote]

I think you should use it to start your own Taxi service after painting it yellow and really push the boat out some.[/quote]

Funny you should say that too. There is, or was, a (I presume) foreigner in Tainan who is, or was, doing essentially that, according to this Tainan_Bulletin post.

"I have a truck/motorcycle flatbed thingie that can moves stuff across
the city really easily. If your moving stuff, picking up bricks, or
want to take a handfull of folks to the beach in style, give me a
holler.

I work for liquor"

Its a while ago (Sun Aug 10, 2008 2:47 pm) but I’ve sent a message asking for info. Interested to see if I get a reply.

16

You guys are joking about this but I have considered playing this ‘sanlunche’ thing for a long time. Nowhere is there any limit on how heavy a 3-wheeler can be. Nowhere is there any mention of whether the two wheel axis must be in front or behind. No horsepower limit or maximum speed such a vehicle can attain. No law as to helmets or safety belts.

I envisage taking something like a manual trans Civic, chopping off everything but the bulkhead and suspension top mounting points… tubular frame to support a third (rear) wheel on a motorcycle style swinging-arm rear suspension ala Morgan… and canvas body ‘panels’ for weather protection. With a typical B16a or similar you have 160~170ps. Minimal weight + manual trans = impressive power / weight ratio. Three wheels seems to equal no interference from the popo and except for ‘cars only’ expressways and freeways the road is yours to abuse. :discodance:

17

Redwagon. You scare me sometimes! But I’d still like to have a go!

18

Most of my windsurfing buddies use:

  1. T4 - use plywood to make a shelf/bed. Some have electrical issues on occasion
  2. Ford van similar to T4. Cheap and easy to fix, a little short for more than 2 people & boards
  3. T3 - not recommended
  4. Merc Van - a bit overkill

The rest of us just strap our things on our cars - everything from a Civic to a Merc S class. I could get, 1 10’ tanker, two wave boards and one freeride plus 6 sails (3.7 to 7.8) and 4 masts all on the top of my car and securely fasten them.

19

[quote=“redwagon”]You guys are joking about this but I have considered playing this ‘sanlunche’ thing for a long time. Nowhere is there any limit on how heavy a 3-wheeler can be. Nowhere is there any mention of whether the two wheel axis must be in front or behind. No horsepower limit or maximum speed such a vehicle can attain. No law as to helmets or safety belts.

I envisage taking something like a manual trans Civic, chopping off everything but the bulkhead and suspension top mounting points… tubular frame to support a third (rear) wheel on a motorcycle style swinging-arm rear suspension ala Morgan… and canvas body ‘panels’ for weather protection. With a typical B16a or similar you have 160~170ps. Minimal weight + manual trans = impressive power / weight ratio. Three wheels seems to equal no interference from the popo and except for ‘cars only’ expressways and freeways the road is yours to abuse. :discodance:[/quote]

I’m only sort-of joking. I don’t really have the wherewithal (i.e. no workshop) or I guess the skills (though screwing up would be OK) to do anything about it, (apart, presumably, from buying one “off the shelf”) but if I could, I quite probably would.

However, I’m not sure if I understand your “Nowhere does it say…Nowhere is there…” reasoning. Are you implying you’ve seen actual regulations governing these things?

My understanding is that they are (almost) completely unacknowledged officially. I suggest that, as an international road transport legislation generalisation, if The Man hasn’t acknowledged its existence, then its illegal, and this would apply especially in Taiwan, with its no changes/no-brainer policy on vehicle modification.

I think these things are illegal, but they are tolerated. I also think a foreigner doing what you propose, unless very seriously “connected”, is likely to exceed the limits of that tolerance. I’ve never seen ANY tadpole configuration 3-wheelers here, (they’re probably not dangerous enough) so neither have the cops, and I don’t think they’ll like it.

But havn’t we had this discussion before? Maybe I’ve been here too long.

20

[quote=“Ducked”]
However, I’m not sure if I understand your “Nowhere does it say…Nowhere is there…” reasoning. Are you implying you’ve seen actual regulations governing these things?

My understanding is that they are (almost) completely unacknowledged officially. I suggest that, as an international road transport legislation generalisation, if The Man hasn’t acknowledged its existence, then its illegal, and this would apply especially in Taiwan, with its no changes/no-brainer policy on vehicle modification.

I think these things are illegal, but they are tolerated. I also think a foreigner doing what you propose, unless very seriously “connected”, is likely to exceed the limits of that tolerance. I’ve never seen ANY tadpole configuration 3-wheelers here, (they’re probably not dangerous enough) so neither have the cops, and I don’t think they’ll like it.

But havn’t we had this discussion before? Maybe I’ve been here too long.[/quote]
As far as I know there are just no laws governing these things, which is why you see so many of them and why they are usually so dangerously and poorly built. There are laws governing the construction and use of motorcycles and cars. Three-wheeler just seems to have fallen through the cracks, although you may be right that they are simply ignored because they are so unglamorous and slow. Perhaps if someone built one that was fast or differently shaped enough to show up on the radar then some archaic law would be resurrected to deal with the person rocking the boat. I used to have the time and means to test such theories, but sadly not any longer. It might even be worth building such a thing just to precipitate a crackdown on the usual Ah Huangs that operate three-wheelers without any legal accountability.