Calling home to the USA? Say hi to Big Brother George!

Anyone call home to Amerika for the holidays? Most likely Big Brother was listening in on your call. King George thinks its a great idea, and is still at it, and wants to do it every Christmas, indeed every day.

If you believe the horseshit about a left wing media, why did the NYT sit on this story for a year? Let’s get this straight. The NY Times has this story which, as it reports, has been confirmed by a dozen officials. It possibly had this information prior to the election. And when the White House asks pretty please can you not let the American people know we’re destroying their civil rights, the NY Times says “sure”? Because, you know, Americans don’t need to be informed as they go to the polls. Better to keep them ignorant and scared–and Republican.

The NY Times and the White House yank out the tired “national security” excuse for delaying the article’s publication. But does disclosing the fact the government is spying on its citizens really tip off terrorists? Does the NY Times or the White House for that matter expect us to believe that terrorists actually have any expectation of privacy in this nation? Of course not. Does anyone really believe that terrorist pick up their phone and call Osama collect? All this program does is spy on Americans, recklessly, illegally, and wantonly.

More info at http://www.dailykos.com and http://www.antiwar.com/

“When the President does it, that means that it is not illegal.”
– Richard Nixon

:slight_smile:

[quote=“spook”]“When the President does it, that means that it is not illegal.”
– Richard Nixon

:slight_smile:[/quote]

I blame Clinton.

I take this as a sad sign of the dangrous times we live in. But at least there is now proof that I said “I love you,” to my Grandmother.

Another koskid checks in… :roflmao:

what next?..DummiesUnderground as back-up…:roflmao:

What will Wikipaedia say about it…:roflmao:

Even the NY Times Public Editor has his questions -
link

Motivation? As previously discussed -
news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060102/ap_ … cia_iraq_1

This situation has been quite thoroughly discussed in previous threads. Out of curiosity, what new items does this post bring to the table?

BTW, “Carnivore” was active during the late '70’s and in the '80’s. Nothing new here.

The ability to “spy first, ask permission later” is already covered by FISA. So why the need for this program? My only guess is that under Bush’s order, the NSA never had to get subsequent approval of its searches. Did Bush give the NSA such carte blanche authority? Bush gave the NSA the authority to in essence act as its own judiciary and determine whether or not probable cause existed to execute a warrantless search. Was this crucial decision–which is usually the province of a neutral magistrate–delegated to the head of the NSA? To the deputy director? No. Under Bush’s order, it was the shift supervisor who made the critical decision.

Bush’s citizen spying program uses the same standard of probable cause, just like FISA. But instead of having to present actual evidence of that probable cause to a judge, his program set up the McDonald’s drive-thru of the intelligence world. Agents would approach whomever was on shift at the time, place their order to spy on Citizen X, and get their approval lickety-split. Gonzales and Miers would peek in every month or so to do a once-over, to make sure everything was clean and there were no rats and such. But for the large part, the program ran with no oversight, no inspection, and no limits. Despite the fact that several high-level officials repeatedly expressed concerns about the program’s legality, Bush kept the program alive. He’s still refusing to end it. So the program is still open: warrantless, illegal searches of Americans, served up piping hot on demand.

How do you know it’s only of Americans? Or is it people who reside in America?

Serious question here.

How do you know it’s only of Americans? Or is it people who reside in America?

Serious question here.[/quote]
They seem to just be doing a shotgun surveillance of anyone and everyone with a phone line in the USA and a call to or from the civilized world outside.

No one has yet managed to explain how revealing that the administration illegally spies on American citizens without obtaining warrants, instead of legally spying on people after obtaining such warrants, damages national security.

The terrorist already know that they are being listened on. That’s why they speak in code, or use messages on the internet, or any of a million other simple techniques. So what exact purpose does it serve for the USA to spy on its own citizens? Other than Bush just being a prick in general, and trying to keep everyone in a state of fear.

[quote][url=http://www.pacifica.org/programs/dn/060103.html]Now Congress is considering holding a new round of hearings on Bush

The enemy is already growing within. No need to look elsewhere. People will hop onto their heritage bandwagon if shit really hits the fan. North America is losing what it once had which is somthing to be proud of.

With utter morons like Bush in charge, it’s hard to see ourselves (The West) as people who can make these worldly decisions. Afterall, the people voted for him. It makes us ALL look stupid. How can The West govern the world with a straight face while having a clown sit as president?

I’m Canadian but sadly my nation has been in the shadow of The United States for quite sometime now.

At least Blaire can lie intelligently with a smile on his face, no less.

[quote=“M0NSTER”]The enemy is already growing within. No need to look elsewhere. People will hop onto their heritage bandwagon if shit really hits the fan. North America is losing what it once had which is somthing to be proud of.

With utter morons like Bush in charge, it’s hard to see ourselves (The West) as people who can make these worldly decisions. Afterall, the people voted for him. It makes us ALL look stupid. How can The West govern the world with a straight face while having a clown sit as president?

I’m Canadian but sadly my nation has been in the shadow of The United States for quite sometime now.

At least Blaire can lie intelligently with a smile on his face, no less.[/quote]

Right, things are much better in free and honest Taiwan, or devout Iran, perhaps fair and true Palestine or honest and good Russia, Indonesia, safe and calm France, the workers paradise of Germany.

Give me a large break. :unamused:

The limelight of being a ‘super power’ has it’s draw backs, don’t cha think?

All eyes on us.

[quote=“M0NSTER”]The limelight of being a ‘super power’ has it’s draw backs, don’t cha think?

All eyes on us.[/quote]

You mean us. I thought you were Canadian. :wink:

Honestly I think the reason that most Americans don’t care about this is that a) they feel they aren’t doing anything wrong, and b) they actually DO trust the government to NOT become the 1984-State that its critics suggest is happening.

SO either some people are naive or some people are overreacting.

Take your pick.

I thought Canadians were part of this machine…hmmmm…guess not.

the"most americans" you come in contact with and those i come in contact here in the US must be different folks. broadly speaking, most americans are greatly saddened at the current state of affairs and yet feel completely helpless to do anything to change it.

this ain’t no democracy, never was. one arm of gov’t is ignoring the constitution. another, the houses, are all bought off and bribed into compliance.

the republic , now under the sixth year of president seated by the supreme court and rigged elections (diebold’s leader, a staunch Democrat, has resigned in disgrace) and the patriot act now allows the gov’t to arrest, detain and sentence citizens without letting anyone even know where you are.

most american i know wish this bad nightmare of the current administration to simply end.

[quote=“skeptic yank”]

this ain’t no democracy, never was. one arm of gov’t is ignoring the constitution. another, the houses, are all bought off and bribed into compliance.

the republic , now under the sixth year of president seated by the supreme court and rigged elections (diebold’s leader, a staunch Democrat, has resigned in disgrace) and the patriot act now allows the gov’t to arrest, detain and sentence citizens without letting anyone even know where you are.

most American I know wish this bad nightmare of the current administration to simply end.[/quote] :notworthy: :bravo: :notworthy:

Nuf said.

bobepine

too late to edit: diebold’s head honcho who has resigned in disgrace is not an ardent democrat but rather a republican. he is most famous for promising to deliver the election to bush.

If you are not into crime, treason, or sedition, what are you worried about?

ever known any business folk trying to fly to a conference only to learn that they are on the no-fly list? their careers are halted (at best) for reasons that are secrets of state and not to be revealed.

elected officials taking bribes, widespread and unwarranted wiretaps, in a war under false pretenses, millions in prisons, taxes are now the average american’s largest expenditure.

again, the police can come in your house when you are not there. look around completely without warrants. they can come and take you away (who knows what they “dropped” on their earlier unwarranted sweep) and hold you indefinately without charges in an undisclosed location without informing even your next of kin without time limit.

please, define “crime”. everyone, and i mean EVERYONE i know is a criminal. just this past week they signed into law that making an annoyance over the internet not using your real name is a federal offense (seriously).

it reads you are in florida. you could (please don’t) report me for annoying you over the internet using a screen name. the feds would track me and/or get formosa’s data and the authorities could investigate and i could face prison time if found guilty.

when everyone is a criminal (driving too fast, rolling a stop light, airlines customs forms filled out wrong) everyone is guilty. then liberty rests strictly on the goodwill of the prosecutor. not exactly as the founding fathers envisioned things.

Excellent interview with former NSA intelligence agent Russell Tice (a Republican who twice voted for Bush, incidentally) that what the NSA is doing is entirely illegal, constitutional liberties are utterly ignored and that the USA is decaying into a police state where the rule of law is routinely ignored by those in power. Dude has volunteered to testify before Congress about ‘illegal black ops’ that are regularly conducted in total defiance of the NSA “prime directive” that you don’t spy on Americans.

When asked of what should be the consequences for Bush, Tice says the following:

[quote]You know, I saw our last president get impeached for what personally I thought should have been something between his wife and his family, and the big guy upstairs. It