👉 Can anyone share advice about living in Taiwan long term?

[Explant]

@TT

@zentape

we’re both Singaporeans

Are you both Mandarin speakers and Chinese literate and of predominantly east Asian ancestry? Because that impacts some if the advice you are being given…

that’s my thought as well. our han Chinese Singaporean friends have acclimated to Taiwan extremely well. it’s a good country. and if you speak mandarin it’s an amazing country with very little effort. our Indian and Russian singaporean friends had harder times here due to the usual phenotype issues and language barriers.

[zentape]

@FatKaz

I stayed in New Taipei City and Taipei City at different times. I don’t know where I’ll stay when I return.

Thanks for sharing! So how are your thoughts regarding New Taipei City vs Taipei City during your stay in these places?

@FatKaz

If you and your wife don’t speak Chinese and you want to have exciting social lives, Taipei City or New Taipei City. If you’re from a big city in most other countries, New Taipei City won’t feel like an entirely different city to you because Taipei in general is so small. If budget is a concern, you can save a lot of money by living further out in an area that would still feel close to the city centre if you’re familiar with London, Tokyo, etc.

Good point. I’m glad we’re both Chinese ethnic who can read, write, and speak Mandarin pretty well, since it’s our most frequently spoken language back home. We will keep that advice in mind as we weigh budget vs. distance.

@FatKaz

Like yourself, I had a very pleasant experience visiting Taiwan as a tourist. However, when I moved there, after the honeymoon period finished, I was very stressed and unhappy. This was largely caused by my job at the time (teaching English to children - something I really didn’t want to do), but I also found it very hard to adjust and I complained all the time.

After a year, however, I left the job I hate and finally put in the effort to learn Mandarin. My new non-English-teaching job was still stressful, but I think putting in the effort to learn the language made a world of difference and I soon stopped complaining (as much) and accepting the differences. My second to fourth (final - for now) years in Taiwan were brilliant, though I was ready to leave and take a big break by the end of it.

I really appreciate you sharing your struggles and experience as a tourist vs as an expat. It was really valuable to hear real-world stories from you and what you went through, and kudos to you for picking up Mandarin!

@FatKaz

The main thing I dislike is the work culture, but you don’t have to worry about this so I won’t elaborate. Connected to this is the Confucian face-saving culture, which makes forming good relationships with people difficult. It’s easy to make superficial “friends”, but not easy to form more meaningful connections, whether professionally or socially, at least from my experience.

Unfortunately, I feel the work culture may be a common practice in Asian Chinese society, and I also get what you mean regarding face-saving culture. It was also partly due to the fact that I dislike and got tired of such working environments that I decided to start my own gig to escape the race.

@FatKaz

I also feel like Taipei life can be quite overwhelming. The pollution and humidity is not nice and I don’t think enough mention is made about the grim winters which I personally think are worse than in England, though I’ve heard the South of Taiwan doesn’t have this problem.

Since I grew up in Singapore’s tropical wet/hot climate, I actually enjoy the snowy winter in London. LOL. Although after a while, my local classmates were telling me it’s just my honeymoon phase and in fact most locals find it harder to get through daily life in winter, which I slowly understood.

@FatKaz

As for what I like… Honestly, too much to list! I love the people, even if I think it’s quite difficult to penetrate the surface. I love the food. I love the fact that Taipei is surrounded by mountains that you can easily get to any weekend. I love that Taiwan is quite small and that it’s easy to go out and visit new places and explore nature. In comparison, London definitely has more quiet places like parks and forests than Taipei, but getting out and appreciating real nature isn’t something you can do any time.

What a great list of things you love about Taiwan!! Reading them made us more excited about our relocation plan, because we also love Taiwan for the same reasons you do, though not as deeply as you have since we’ve only visited.

@FatKaz

I had a work visa, now I have a Gold Card visa. No issues.

That’s awesome!

@FatKaz

Apparently, this is one of the negatives about Taiwan. Fortunately, I seem to have gotten lucky because all my landlords have been wonderful and I always got excellent deals. But, aside from one time where I just lucked out with a really nice landlord, I used Facebook pages for foreigners to find apartments, so I bypassed the BS.

Happy to hear you’re having positive landlord and apartment hunting experience so far.

@FatKaz

• Study Chinese if you don’t already know it. You don’t have to get particularly good at it, but simply being able to get by and showing people you’re making the effort makes a huge difference.
• Read up on Confucianism. I didn’t do this until after I left Taiwan, but when I did a lot of things started making sense to me that I found very confusing before. This is the philosophy that underpins much of Taiwanese life.
• I think Taiwanese people have a really weird relationship to “foreigners” (a word you’ll hear directed towards you all the time, which personally took me some getting used to even if it is the correct word). As a visitor, you get the impression that “Taiwanese people love foreigners” (an expression I heard many times), but once you live there, you soon realise that this isn’t really true and the way they feel is a lot more complicated and in some ways hostile. I’ve already written a lot so I’ll stop here, but happy to discuss this point further. I’m mentioning it as something to be aware of.

Thank you so much for your insights and advice. Lol, I guess imagination vs reality can be a harsh thing, since you’re not the only one to mention discrimination or different treatment. I was even a little taken aback when you mentioned “in some ways hostile”, so if you feel comfortable telling us a little about it, that’d be great.

[zentape]

@TT

Are you both Mandarin speakers and Chinese literate and of predominantly east Asian ancestry? Because that impacts some if the advice you are being given…

Since we’re East Asians, Mandarin was our family’s most common language growing up. So we can read, write, and speak pretty well.

@Explant

that’s my thought as well. our han Chinese Singaporean friends have acclimated to Taiwan extremely well. it’s a good country. and if you speak mandarin it’s an amazing country with very little effort. our Indian and Russian singaporean friends had harder times here due to the usual phenotype issues and language barriers.

To be honest, we were considering relocating between Thailand or Taiwan because we like both places for their great cultures and friendly people. In terms of language, Taiwan wins, since Mandarin is our easiest language to communicate with, and we like the food more as well. Haha.

[Explant]

seems like a winner

and being free from traditional family related stuff locall, I think people can be extremely happy in taiwan!

I love Thailand as well. but I would personally opt to live in Taiwan over Thailand any day of the week. i feel thailand is a better vacation spot than taiwan. but taiwan is a better “home base”.

the China problem is real, but in the end it’s always good to side on the ethical side of the issue so for me Taiwan is an even better option, unless in a rotten mood Haha.

[DKaoshuing]

@Explant

seems like a winner

and being free from traditional family related stuff locall, I think people can be extremely happy in taiwan!

I love Thailand as well. but I would personally opt to live in Taiwan over Thailand any day of the week. i feel thailand is a better vacation spot than taiwan. but taiwan is a better “home base”.

the China problem is real, but in the end it’s always good to side on the ethical side of the issue so for me Taiwan is an even better option, unless in a rotten mood Haha.

haha, like you like the South much more attractive to me than the North with year round warmer weather (though Taipei can be hotter in the summer) I as a Japanese person am treated well, but this may not apply to you even if you speak Chinese (locals will know your not local by your accent).
I have summer break from the hot, being in Estonia now and think its also good place except for winter! There are few Asians here but I feel I am treated well.

[boaz25]

Always glad to help a fellow Singaporean As a general consideration, if you are ethnically Chinese from an Asian country things tend to be smoother, at least on the discrimination side or on the “you are a waiguoren so I won’t listen to whatever you are saying even in excellent Mandarin and keep repeating my template reply” experience.

Where are you staying in Taiwan?
Kaohsiung
Where in Taiwan would you recommend staying longer-term or semi-retiring?
For a Singaporean, I would say Greater Taipei. Metropolitan feel, relatively good air quality and still less busy than the Red Dot. But you would be shocked by the housing market prices, especially if compared to BTOs.
How has it been coming from your home country and settling in?
I’m used to Asia so it wasn’t much of a change in general, but the attitude towards foreigners is frustrating at times. It is hard to be treated normally as opposed to how we Caucasians generally are in an English-speaking melting pot like Singapore.
Is there anything you like or dislike about living in Taiwan vs your own country?
I love safety and convenience here, while I dislike, like others have already pointed out, the nightmare that doing anything government-related or official (phone contract, bank account, etc.) becomes, even if you speak Mandarin. And I prefer the Singaporean eternal summer, but this is a personal view

[UPDATE]
Frustration comes in three ways (@FatKaz already explained it awesomely)

1. The staff is not really listening to what you are telling them, because you are a waiguoren anyway. They will just keep repeating the same useless reply over and over until you raise your voice and say “LISTEN TO ME CAREFULLY”.
2. When the staff doesn’t know how to handle your problem, they will just say “NO” or feed you some funny story to shrug you off and make sure that you don’t come back until their shift is over, after which you will be someone else’s problem.
3. On top of that, every person will have a different version of the story and make its own regulations without bothering to check. One shop might tell you that you can have a phone contract only with a Taiwanese signing on your behalf, another one that you need to pay a hefty deposit, the third that foreigners cannot have a phone contract and the fourth will let you have one smoothly. That’s what doing “official” things in Taiwan looks like.

Would you mind sharing what type of visa you have and if you had any issues?
Gold Card, no issues. The process was super-smooth.
Are there any tips you’d like to share about your condo/apartment rental experience?
Quality is appalling and prices up north scary, even for a Singaporean. I would suggest aiming at new condos, which cost more but have a higher standard compared to the old buildings.
Do you have kids or is your kid studying there? How’s it going?
N.A.
Do you have any advice for people moving to Taiwan?
If you are not in a rush, why don’t you wait for COVID restrictions to be lifted (hint: November elections ) and come for maybe one-two months to have a better feel of the place?

[justintaiwan]

@zentape

So on the whole, we just need to be more firm about most of the “NOs” that foreigners may get from the locals and give a little gentle nudge to get some of the benefits that we’re actually entitled to?

In a nutshell, yep. Sometimes when someone refuses to do something, no amount of reason helps.

I feel like I painted a bad picture though i do like living here overall. I’ve mostly lived in small towns (Xiangshan in Hsinchu, Gongguan Miaoli, Miaoli City and now moving to YuanLin in Changhua) and I think life here is slower and easier than back in Australia.
It’s possible that I’ve faced more issues because I haven’t lived in areas where there are more foreigners. I wouldn’t live in Taipei unless I had a great job just because rent is double the price of other cities.
I like not having to travel so far for a weekend away.
I like how easy it is to find a job here and that you don’t need to go through 3-5 interview stages to find out the salary of jobs (Australian businesses almost never state the pay until you get an offer). I also like that negotiating salary is acceptable for almost any position here.
I like seeing the mountains and riding a scooter around. I like that the excellent train network makes car ownership optional rather than necessary. I like feeling like part of the community after living somewhere for a while. I had someone randomly say hi and offer to teach me how to play tennis because I teach English to his friends, daughter

No where’s perfect and I’ve had a hard time deciding whether to stay in Taiwan or go back to Australia. They both have pros and cons but they have different pros and cons.

[yingzheng]

Great questions and some good insights in the thread so far.

• Where are you staying in Taiwan?

I’m currently in Taichung but have spent considerable time in Nantou and Tainan as well.

• Where in Taiwan would you recommend staying longer-term or semi-retiring?

This really depends on what you both like to do with your free time. If you’d like active social lives, eating out at restaurants with international cuisine options, and greater shopping options, then any of the bigger cities on the West side would probably be a good option. Taipei is kind of like “Singapore-Lite”. Not quite as international in both demographics and mindset, but getting there. I describe Taichung as being very “family-friendly” in that there is nothing overly amazing about it but lots of little things to like about it. Tainan has most of the dining and shopping options of a big city but maintains a very “local” feel. Personally, if you want to retire and still enjoy city life, Tainan would be my first choice. Just be prepared for some crazy traffic.

That being said, I personally would retire along the East Coast. Maybe Yilan, so you could be close enough to Taipei for easy trips over to the big city. Beautiful views, easy access to nature. Chill and relaxed vibe, but it can be a little touristy and the dining/shopping/socialization options will be limited.

• How has it been coming from your home country and settling in?

Very different, but I came here fairly young (as a teenager) and so was more adaptable back then. I’m settled now, but wouldn’t want to do it again someplace else.

• Is there anything you like or dislike about living in Taiwan vs your own country?

Lots of things to like, but it’s more fun to talk about the dislikes

The big dislikes are pollution, traffic/general population density, and the initial language barrier, although I’ve either gotten used to or found workable solutions for those for the most part.
The biggest thing I miss from where I grew up (rural midwest, USA) is that it is fairly difficult to find complete solitude. By that, I mean being completely and utterly alone. I used to do wilderness hiking/camping before coming to Taiwan and the feeling of not hearing any man-made noise and knowing that there probably isn’t another soul in many km in any direction is one like none other and very difficult to achieve in Taiwan. That being said, Taiwan has nice nature options and even some fun wilderness camping options, but you’ll likely be running into other adventurers along the way unless you spend quite a few hours finding a secluded spot.

• Would you mind sharing what type of visa you have and if you had any issues?

Currently on APRC. No issues.

• Do you have any advice for people moving to Taiwan?

Embrace awkwardness.
Be proactive in terms of building friendships/community.
When doing anything that requires official paperwork, always call ahead to make sure the information you have is complete and accurate. Many non-Taiwanese residents struggle with banking and anything bureaucratic. I’ve found that calling ahead, asking for the pertinant information, getting someone’s name, and then making an appointment with that specific person goes a long way towards turning yourself into a client rather than just another face in the crowd at Taiwan’s large institutions. Doesn’t always work, but it seems to help in my experience.

[overflow]

I think we had a discussion about how Wise doesn’t support NTD.