Can I be conscripted if I apply for visa extension?

Legal Military Conscription
1

I know there has been a lot of discussion about military conscription and I’ve read through pretty much every post dealing with it. But I have a question of my own.

I was born in Taiwan but moved to the US when I was 6. I have a US passport and everytime I go to visit Taiwan, I have always used my US passport.
I have contacted the TECO in New York about my concerns with military conscription and they have said that as long as I don’t overstay my visa, military conscription will not be a problem.

However, in a few months, I’m planning on staying in Taiwan for 1-2 years. My visa allows me only 30 days. I plan on doing visa extensions so I can live there for 2 years. (actually…visa extensions + leaving/entering Taiwan every 4 months)
My question is, if I apply for a visa extension at the police station, will that allow the government to track how long I have been in Taiwan?

Thanks for any help you can provide.

2

Yes, they can also track your period of stay thru immigration. You will have an entry and exit record when you enter and leave an immigration point, namely the airport.

I expect some of you two year stay is going to end up as part of your 4 year stay, including doing military service.

You plan on staying 1 - 2 years, and if you work or study you will be an illegal immigrant. If you get caught you’ll end up in the military for sure.

3

[quote=“rac1201”]
I have contacted the TECO in New York about my concerns with military conscription and they have said that as long as I don’t overstay my visa, military conscription will not be a problem.[/quote]

As long as you don’t break their laws such as overstaying a visa, you’ll be ok. They have no cause to snatch you for conscription if you enter Taiwan with your US passport and have not broken any laws.

First, your 30 day visa - is this a landing visa, which are non-extendable, or some other type of visa?

Each time you extend at the Foreign Affairs police, they’ll have a log of your stay. Take a look at the MOI, NPA website for more information.

Also, when you extend, you will need to provide a reason for the extension. You can extend for work, study, familial relations up to 2 times (e.g. 6 months if you entered with a 60-day visa) before you need to make a visa jump. All of these extension reasons require documentary proof.

4

How are you going to be conscripted if you have no household registration? Who is going to draft you? Where will they send the draft notice? You’re not on the draft register if you’ve entered as a US citizen on a US passport. I know people with ARCs who’ve been here for years on US passports. They’ve never used their ROC Overseas Chinese passports and therefore never registered a Hu Kou and therefore are not registered anywhere that could generate a draft paper.

5

Yes, excellent point re: hu kou. That’s they way Taiwan controls its population. If you’re not on one, then you’re considered outside of the system and hence an untouchable for purposes of conscription. So, you’re back to overstaying the visa as your biggest concern.

6

Yes, excellent point re: hu kou. That’s they way Taiwan controls its population. If you’re not on one, then you’re considered outside of the system and hence an untouchable for purposes of conscription. So, you’re back to overstaying the visa as your biggest concern.[/quote]

No, they know you’re an ROC citizen as place of birth is Taiwan, and have an ID number even if you don’t have an ID Card.

Then one day when you go to the airport to leave you get detained… ooops

7

[quote=“Satellite TV”]
No, they know you’re an ROC citizen as place of birth is Taiwan, and have an ID number even if you don’t have an ID Card.

Then one day when you go to the airport to leave you get detained… ooops[/quote]
Um, no, because as far as they know you’re American if you come in on a US passport. For all they know, you could just happen to have the same name as a Taiwanese resident. But unless they can deadset prove you’re the same guy, I don’t see how they can just go “Oi! You look Chinese - GET INTO OUR ARMY”

8

[quote=“Tetsuo”][quote=“Satellite TV”]
No, they know you’re an ROC citizen as place of birth is Taiwan, and have an ID number even if you don’t have an ID Card.

Then one day when you go to the airport to leave you get detained… ooops[/quote]
Um, no, because as far as they know you’re American if you come in on a US passport. For all they know, you could just happen to have the same name as a Taiwanese resident. But unless they can deadset prove you’re the same guy, I don’t see how they can just go “Oi! You look Chinese - GET INTO OUR ARMY”[/quote]

try PLACE OF BIRTH… TAIWAN or China it’s in the passport…

In any case on the immigration form you have to write place of birth… so thats a dead giveaway as well…

9

Yes, excellent point re: hu kou. That’s they way Taiwan controls its population. If you’re not on one, then you’re considered outside of the system and hence an untouchable for purposes of conscription. So, you’re back to overstaying the visa as your biggest concern.[/quote]

No, they know you’re an ROC citizen as place of birth is Taiwan, and have an ID number even if you don’t have an ID Card.

Then one day when you go to the airport to leave you get detained… ooops[/quote]

But the US passport will have the English name, not the Chinese name. There’s no way they could track your Chinese name and ID and match it to your English name. Simply impossible to do as no documents are in English.

Given that, you’re saying that the ROC can still detain a US national just because your US passport said born in ROC?

That’s very interesting.

10

The key is the Hu Kuo family registry. If you’re not in it, then your safe.

Detaining at the airport because of place of birth is ROC is not enough.

How do they know you didn’t serve already?

If you have no documents linking your Chinese names and you have no ROC registry number, you’re basically a foriegner.

11

[quote=“ac_dropout”]The key is the Hu Kuo family registry. If you’re not in it, then your safe.

Detaining at the airport because of place of birth is ROC is not enough.

How do they know you didn’t serve already? You’ve never heard of records?

If you have no documents linking your Chinese names and you have no ROC registry number, you’re basically a foriegner.[/quote]

He lived here until 6, so he will have been in the Hu Ko…

12

[quote=“Satellite TV”][quote=“ac_dropout”]The key is the Hu Kuo family registry. If you’re not in it, then your safe.

Detaining at the airport because of place of birth is ROC is not enough.

How do they know you didn’t serve already? You’ve never heard of records?

If you have no documents linking your Chinese names and you have no ROC registry number, you’re basically a foriegner.[/quote]

He lived here until 6, so he will have been in the Hu Ko…[/quote]

Yes, but again:
US Passport - only English name, so how do they know who he is in the Hu Kou?
Sure, it’ll say Place of Birth: Taipei (or whatever), but how do they know from that one piece of information that -
a) He hasn’t already completed his service.
b) He hasn’t given up his Taiwanese citizenship.
And thirdly, place of birth doesn’t necessarily automatically grant citizenship, afaik.

13

[quote=“Tetsuo”][quote=“Satellite TV”][quote=“ac_dropout”]The key is the Hu Kuo family registry. If you’re not in it, then your safe.

Detaining at the airport because of place of birth is ROC is not enough.

How do they know you didn’t serve already? You’ve never heard of records?

If you have no documents linking your Chinese names and you have no ROC registry number, you’re basically a foriegner.[/quote]

He lived here until 6, so he will have been in the Hu Ko…[/quote]

Yes, but again:
US Passport - only English name, so how do they know who he is in the Hu Kou?
Sure, it’ll say Place of Birth: Taipei (or whatever), but how do they know from that one piece of information that -
a) He hasn’t already completed his service.
b) He hasn’t given up his Taiwanese citizenship.
And thirdly, place of birth doesn’t necessarily automatically grant citizenship, afaik.[/quote]

A: If he has completed military service he will have his 退伍令 with the service period and discharge date. He can’t produce one… oops

B: ROC Citizens cannot renounce citizenship before 40 years of age.

C: I am assuming that that his parents are ROC Nationals, so he would also be an ROC national, having been born here to a father who was an ROC national at time of his birth. If not he wouldn’t already have an ID card number and have to worry about the draft.

The main problem is that ROC allows visits of 4 months per year, which I read in another post is the maximum stay before being drafted. It is not 4 months with every visa entry. He wants to stay 1 - 2 years, clearly longer than 4 months per calender year. Secondly, he hasn’t said what he wants to do during that time, perhaps study Chinese and also work.

I met a young ROC dual national who entered Taiwan on his American passport, then proceeded to live here as an ROC Citizen, thinking that as he entered on a USA passport he couldn’t be touched. However he used his ID card for his health insurance, and he didnt tell his employers he was working illegally. So one day while he’s at work, the military police turn up and take him away. He got to serve…

14

Don’t you want to serve your country of birth? Be all that you can be in the ROC Army!

15

[quote=“Tetsuo”]Um, no, because as far as they know you’re American if you come in on a US passport. For all they know, you could just happen to have the same name as a Taiwanese resident. But unless they can deadset prove you’re the same guy, I don’t see how they can just go “Oi! You look Chinese - GET INTO OUR ARMY”[/quote]While this makes perfect sense, a former co-worker of mine once came in on his US passport, stayed for only a few days, and then was stopped at the airport: couldn’t leave the country until he had fulfilled his military service. I don’t know how this happened, but this shows it’s not as simple as ‘just use your other passport when you come in and you’ll be fine.’