I am planning to return to Europe after having Studied Taiji Quan for 10 years here in Taiwan and in Mainland China. I am one of the few non-Chinese Taiji instructor liscensed by the National Tai Chi Chaun Association of Taiwan and the International Tai Chi Chuan Federation. I will be teaching Taiji Quan in a country where most marial arts clubs earn only 20 Euros per month per student, ruffly 1,5 Euros per hour per student. Yoga teachers are earning 12 Euros per hour and I have found a Taiji Quan club pulling in an amazing 8 Euros per hour per student for training.
How can Taiji Quan be presented to potential customers in such a way that customers would be willing to pay 8 Euros per hour for training?
I would think that if it was marketed as a kind of holistic health thing, rather like tui-na, acupuncture, etc. people would be much more willing to pay for it.
People in UK are willing to hand over loads of money for alternative /complementary therapies. Good luck!
A little of topic, but where and how do you get these licences?
By the way, they pay quite a lot for Taichi classes in Switzerland. You could sell it as a way of “yang shen.” Don’t Europeans fall for all this mystic Chinese health stuff…=) Just ride with the flow…
The National Taichi Chuan Association, Taiwan, gives C grade (Cities level), B grade (provincial Level, Taiwan), and A grade (national Level, China - as if they have the right to represent the PRC) instructor and judging certification.
Getting liscenced varies from club to club. During the past 2 years the NTCCA has decentralized its testing for liscences.
This is what I did:
I join a Tai Chi club. For clubs in your area please contact me.
After training for a year I was invited to a D grade test. This test is not recognized by the NTCCA.
I entered the competition circuit in Taiwan. Each metal win gives you recognition points, sort of like earning guanxi on this forum.
I was invited to the C grade teachers examination. This was the one of the hardest things I have ever done in my life and it was a life changing experience. Test quality varies from club to club.
my C Test include:
A forms examination in front of 4 respected Tai Chi masters.
A multiple choice examination (in Chinese of course) including questions on basic chinese medicine and injury prevention.
A 2 hour Pushing Hands brawl with the other 70 testies. This is not a competition. The testers want to see how you handle yourself.
I was invited to the B grade examination. This was easier than the C grade exam. They assume I already know Tai Chi Chuan.
I have been invited to the A grade examination but turned it down. I do not feel I am personally ready for it.
Each examination covers 12 hours.
I was surprised by your initial question. I always had trouble persuading people that taijiquan is a martial art. Most people think it’s some kind of airy-fairy dance thing. For a while I had lessons from Peter Gilligan, now resident in Belfast, who learned his taijiquan in Taiwan. He very ably demonstrated to me how taijiquan can be used to crush your oponent’s gonads, crack his skull on the floor, tear his groin ligaments etc. I wonder where in Taiwan he learned his stuff. It was Yang style, but a little different to the Yang taiji I learned in Beijing.
The way to make money teaching taijiquan is to surround it with airy-fairy spiritual bullshit. Quite a lot of people fall for that stuff. Take another of my former teachers, Xxxx Xxxxxxx from Beijing, who is now teaching martial arts in Vienna. He claims to be an ex-monk. His gongfu is pretty lethal, but that monk stuff is bull—SHIT!!!
[quote=“Juba”]I was surprised by your initial question. I always had trouble persuading people that taijiquan is a martial art. Most people think it’s some kind of airy-fairy dance thing. For a while I had lessons from Peter Gilligan, now resident in Belfast, who learned his taijiquan in Taiwan. He very ably demonstrated to me how taijiquan can be used to crush your oponent’s gonads, crack his skull on the floor, tear his groin ligaments etc. I wonder where in Taiwan he learned his stuff. It was Yang style, but a little different to the Yang taiji I learned in Beijing.
The way to make money teaching taijiquan is to surround it with airy-fairy spiritual bullshit. Quite a lot of people fall for that stuff. Take another of my former teachers, Xxxx Xxxxxxx from Beijing, who is now teaching martial arts in Vienna. He claims to be an ex-monk. His gongfu is pretty lethal, but that monk stuff is bull—SHIT!!![/quote]
This is exactly the kind of stuff I want to learn to understand. Please define
I used to joke with my students about chanting and candles just before I tossed them to the ground in my applications classes. But I never had chanting and candles in any of my classes when I was a student. I was to busy healing the latest shoulder joint injury from pushing hands.
Thanks Chris for your explanation. I suppose you got your certifactes in Yang style. May I ask to which club you went and who is your master?
My friend and I do Chen style after Chen Zhenlei and I was told, that it is pretty difficult to get a cerfiticat from the Taiwanese Taichi association, if you do not study excactly the style they themselves made up in Taiwan. Do you know anything about that?
I am certified in Yang style and Chen style. My Yang style certification is through the National Tai Chi Chuan Association Taiwan. My Chen style certification is through the Chinese Chen Jia Gou Tai Chi Chuan Association.
I am a student of the Association, as such I had many coaches each specializing in a different aspect of Tai Chi Chuan.
My most famous Yang style teacher is Chang Chang Bin. He teaches in Taichung at Jiankang Park. He specializes in Pushing Hands theory and the 37 form Yang style Tai Chi.
Ma Li Shu was my forms competition coach. She specializes in 37, 64, 42 forms and Wu Shu training methods.
Xiao Bei Hai was my combat applications teacher. He specializes in 64 form. This is a nearly impossible to enter class. Mr. Xiao asked me to stay after class for training with him. He does not teach but is the leader of Teacher Ma’s group.
Chen Wen He was my practical competitive Pushing Hands coach. With out him I do not think I would have ever understood Teacher Chang’s classes.
I also studied Li Mu Huo’s Pushing Hand seminar’s in Chang Hua City.
All these classes were with the Taichung Taichi Chuan Association. I still study with Chang Chang Bin when I have free time.
My most famous Chen style teacher is Chen Zhen Lei. No explanation required. These courses are very expensive and in mainland China.
I was introduced to Master Chen and his coaching team by my Taichung coach, Xie Dong Liang.
Xie Dong Liang taught me Lao Jia Yi Lu, Xin Jia Yi Lu. Because of my studies with Chen Zhen Lei, I also learned Lao Jia Er Lu (Pao Chui) and Xin Jia Er Lu (Pao Chui).
I used the 42 form to test my C grade exam. Chang Chang Bin was one of my monitors - a very conservative 37 stylist who frowns on non-37 forms. So the form I chose was not what was important. The important thing is ultimately stance work.
I used the Xin Jia Yi Lu for for my C grade Chen style Exam. This exam is hosted at the National Wu Shu Training Center in Tainan. I was also monitored by Chen Zhen Lei while I was China.
So to answer your question I have many masters with two head masters, Chang Chang Bin - Taichung, and Chen Zhen Lei - Henan, China.
In Australia they have chains, yes not one but several, taijiquan chains. Bit like the Chinese masseurs hanging around in Sydney’s Chinatowns wearing white coats and boards proclaiming they’d studied at blah blah school of Chinese medicine. I used to love taking the piss out of these shamsters and would ask pertinent questions which never failed to reveal just how shallow they’re knowledge was/is. I’m a qualified Chinese medicine practioner by the way - despite never having opened my own clinic!
I’d say you’d be hard pressed convincing Europeans of your no doubt legitimate credentials . . . initially. This is made all the more difficult by mostly Mainland Chinese that will be no doubt just as eager to do the same thing as you. However, word of mouth is a bloody good tool and I’m sure that in time you’ll pick up students.
Not sure how close the parallels are between the Oz and European experience although judging by my one trip to Paris several years ago, I did notice quite a few Chinese eager to hawk their “mystical” Oriental skills.
I’d say curb the bullshit and teach it like you were taught. Don’t wrap it up in bullshit or you’ll be betraying your own studies and conscience. It will become quite apparent that you’re the real deal with time.
Years ago I was thinking of opening a Chinese medicine clinic in Australia and I had to think through these very matters. I decided that the best way was my way. Classmates of mine that did just that are now doing good business. Don’t know about the ones that might have wrapped it up in nonesense, never kept in touch.
I was also into martial arts - wing chun and yang style taijiquan - and the best teachers I had were the no nonesense types. While I noticed the lack of “Oriental mystic” may have kept back some potential students, I’d say you’re best off with those that have sorted out their own first lesson - i.e., don’t believe the hype.
I am not worried about getting students once I am back home in Europe. I’ve been teaching Martial arts in Taiwan for the past 10 years. For 10 years I have had to deal with Chinese who tell me that I cannot possibly know because I am not Chinese, and foreigners who tell that if they wanted to study with a foreigner, they would go home. Yet, I have always managed to keep my class open. There are also a few open minded people out there.
But now we come to the question. Where I am from, Karate, Taekwondo, ect all earn 1,5 EUR per hour. I need to explore my option if I would like to be serious about TaiChi and not have it deminish into a hobby.
Mr. Huang, you have a point about avoiding mystisism, but I also like what Spack was talking about. I am not into medicine, though.
Well, yes, I had this big argument with my boyfriend last night. He keeps saying, that “most” foreigners are not able to fully understand the meaning of Taichi, cause of the language barrier. It’s not that I do not agree, but I guess, there are still enough foreigners out there who speak Chinese quite fluent and who would not have a problem with that. And there are enough Chinese out there, who do not have the language problem, but their Taichi is absolutely terrible…!
I guess it all depends on the person. If someone really does study Taichi seriously, he will someday succeed. No matter if foreigner or Chinese.
Meesheeel. I’m quite sure Chris will more than ably train up very good taijiquan practitioners in Europe with nary a word of Chinese. Concepts can be communicated in all languages. English is not your first , right? Yet I understood what you’ve written.
Not wishing to start any disharmony in your relationship but I’m afraid your man seems to be offering the same sort of ethno-rascist response I endured everytime I told someone in China I was there to finish my studies in Chinese medicine - “Ha, ha. But you’re a foreigner, you’ll never understand it”. I might add that these were mostly peasants on the long haul train to Kunming puffing away on huge boxes, most probably loaded with fire works. I’m quite sure my understanding of written Chinese surpassed theirs. I mean at least I didn’t have to sign my name with a thumbprint!
You want to see really bad taijiquan? Go to your nearest park early in the morning and watch the granny militias waving their arms about. Better yet, check the weirdos that look like they’re shaking or pissing behind bushes. Some would call it qi gong. Not sure what I’d call it but it’s somehow akin to the dudes that run around tracks backwards shaking their hands and heads.
Chris. I see what you mean i.e., the Euro per hour thing. What about turning it into a personal trainer type thing with the full gammut of stretching and exercises. That would command top dollar and attract a wealthier clientelle who I’m sure will be quite impressed when you speed up the taiji and show it’s awesomely lethal potential. They’ll also dig your qualifications. These types love gloating to their mates.
Pro Chinese arguement:
What is the difference between 十三勢 and 十三式? The pronunciation is exactly the same but the meaning is very different. When I tell this to my students they become very confused and often ask me to reexplain it when they discover they are getting things confused.
An: one is the 13 influences of Taichi, the other is the 13 patterns of Taichi.
The Chinese feel they win their arguement whenever they see another illiterate (in Chinese) foreigner.
Pro foreigner arguement:
Our western education encourages us to explore when studying the challenge before us. The eastern philohophy is the obey the Teacher, hence the whole “master” craze in the martial arts scene. A properly motivated foreigner is more likely to research his work than a Chinese, for the chinese will be waiting for the teacher to give him the answer for the test.
Well, what my man is saying is, that words like qi or neidan don’t really have a correspondance in English or any other foreign language. So how could a foreigner ever understand what it means?
I do understand where he is coming from, I mean, hell, they were always told that Chinese is the best and oldest culture in the world and that a foreigner will never be able to understand it. So I can’t really blame him for that. It’s his education. On the other hand, I am slowly trying to show him, that what he was told the past 30 years is not excactly true…He is improving…trust me. I wouldn’t want to be with him, if he really was a so called ethno-racist!!
I’m always thinking that if there was a Chinese or Japanese who would try to explain Schiller or Goethe to me, that I probably would not really listen to him, no matter how deep his understanding of German was…
BTW, where have you studied Chinese Medicin and for how long? I would be interested in studying too, but then again, I can’t see blood…=(
Two Points:
Although my students don’t like it if I teach strickly in Chinese, they do like it when I use Chinese sometimes. I think the students feel they are getting extra frosting on their cake. Would the same thing hold true in Europe, or should Chinese altogether.
Some of my students like to know that there is lethal potential in Taichi but I seem to get vibs from them telling me that they do not really like “reality training” so much. I don’t think people anywhere like the idea of getting hurt in class regardless of where they come from.
Personal Training: But of course!
The stretching exercises is a good idea.
What I like at my taichi class is the “duilian” part. Is that what you understand under “reality training”? I think you might be able to draw some attention in Europe by selling your taichi classes as self defense training for women. I feel much more secure since I know how to handle some situations…
Becareful to not confuse dui lian with reality training. much of the dui lian is fine for the classroom because nobody can get hurt. One common example is your instructor’s Dan Bian dui lian fa shown on his website. (not the reduce the integrity of your instructor) Nobody would allow you to do this to him/ her in a real fight.
Reality training is survival training. Students can get hurt without a good instructor or if the students are not properly protected.
For Example:
Jin Ji Du Li; starting with two hand up in front and verbally try to reduce the threat of the encounter. If the opponent gets violent and throughs a punch, jam his striking arm with a double peng (An). Enter inside his striking range to avoid further blows. Jin Ji Du Li follows with one raising arm and one raising knee. The arm strikes the throat, the knee goes to the groin. !!!DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME FOR THIS CAN CAUSE SERIOUS INJURY!!!
We do not practise this in class, we give it only lip service.
Below are two of the most professional reality training centres in the USA: tonyblauer.com rmcat.com
That’s not true. I’ve been involved in the martial arts for nearly 12 years, both in the US and in China. There is just as much of a blindly follow your “master” trend in the western martial arts world as there is here. This is encouraged by the “teachers” because they want the students to stay with them so they can continue making money … or for ego or whatever.
I wish you much luck in your Taiji club in Europe. Perhaps offering some Qiqong as part of your program and referring to it as “Chinese Yoga” might attract more students and allow you to charge the same amount as yoga instructors. You could even market Taiji as a form of “moving yoga” or “moving meditation” or something like that … or in addition to Taiji classes, offer other stuff like introductory classes on Chinese medicine or whatnot. However, I guess I’m overly “traditional” in my views … I think the commercialism of the martial arts is what has destroyed them. In nearly 12 years, I have never had to pay a dime for any of my training, and I have had some of the best instruction in both the States and in China. Sure, I didn’t get to train in a nice, fancy club with great facilities, instead had to work out in cramped, non air-conditioned apartments in China, or school gymnasiums, cafeterias, or garages in the States, but I feel that I got a lot more than I could have at any commercial school.