Lots of problems.
What’s the suicide rate for people who regret it? I’m guessing that’s probably really high, I’d bet higher than the the 40%.
It looks like the odds went from 40% to 30%. I mean 30% seems still ridiculously high for people who used puberty blockers. I’d consider it if it was like less than 10% or something.
Can we compare it to other solutions like mental health care without medical intervention?
Medicines that disrupt their natural development by blocking their hormones for ambiguous reasons? I don’t think so. I’m totally against it.
I kinda doubt there are enough cases of recidivism to do the stats, but sure, it’d be a good number to know. On the other hand, I’m pretty sure it’s mathematically impossible that it could be more suicides overall.
I’m not sure what sort of mental health care it should be compared against.
I honestly don’t understand this position. There’s a pile of evidence that it does substantial good for the vast majority of people who take it. How can that not matter?
That’s certainly one way to read the study. Another way is here:
Because there’s a pile of evidence that it does not do any substantial good for the vast majority of people who take it, that it harms many people who take it, and just plain common sense on the prospect of dramatically altering the natural development of children.
What I got out of this discussion so far is.
We don’t really know if it helps them and if there are net benefits long term. All the articles for it have admitted to serious limitations to their studies and needing further data.
While we know there are serious life time consequences that are proven and factual and in my research, highly probable outcomes when messing with children’s hormones during development.
So yes, this is an experiment on children. I find it highly unethical just to push peoples ideology.
“Many” here being … one out of forty four?
It’s a shame the full text of the study isn’t available, but I’ll note that the goal of the blockers isn’t to reduce negative thoughts, it’s to allow more time to make a decision about hormone therapy, which almost all then choose to do.
So, yeah, there is indeed more than one way.
How is that a net benefit though? It just means they continued with hormone therapy and possibly more invasive life changing surgery.
Sunk cost fallacy also comes to mind.
Have you ever seen a study that didn’t conclude that more data was needed? 
But yes, more data definitely is needed.
Still, it’s weird to dismiss the positive results and embrace the negative ones.
Fair, it’s possible, but in such a large number of cases? It seems unlikely. And there are other benefits demonstrated in other studies, like the other one I linked.
That’s my sense as well.
Despite the overwhelming pressure to support the transgendered agenda (not transgendered people) and the reputational harm and abuse that many who simply state their evidence receive, we still have a completely mixed bag of evidence and conclusions. That in itself is telling.
But even the proponents of chemically castrating children who claim that the process is reversible admit to long term effects, potentially including stunted penile growth and infertility. The fact that we are even having a discussion regarding allowing this to happen to kids means that our society is very badly disordered.
We don’t have anywhere near what I would call a good reliable and repeated study. There are serious limitations to their studies, which they admitted. It’s an experiment at this point.
Because we don’t like the idea of experimenting on children and the positives you mentioned were seriously not impressive or conclusive.
@Mithrandir, I’m giving you the doubt that you are a kind person, yet just misinformed. I created this account once upon a time to reply to your post asking for charities or foundations where children can work with persons with disabilities.
I’m disappointed with the amount of ignorance and unfounded claims on the forum, especially going against standards of care in medicine. It’s all fun and games when someone decides to jump off a building because of all the bullying and attacks against them. This isn’t even a threat, it’s a reality that has been observed, that keeps on happening again and again. I’m even more against that @tempogain, a very senior moderator of Forumosa could even make these claims. Aren’t we all supposed to fact check and refrain from disseminating false information? What are the consequences of not providing puberty
blockers? You make a kid’s life hell, thoughts of suicide emerge, exasperated by all these collective chamber of comments.
I’ve attached a copy of what’s on UpToDate. Anyone who still has doubts is more than welcome to question the scientific and medical integrity of what’s provided, or even write a letter to the Editor, explaining the data you’ve collected along with your credentials or background in the matter. Forumosa only allows me to upload up to 5 images at a time. I’ll provide the briefs. If needed, I’ll post the references (read: very long).
Agreed, but note that the first study included ~3500 trans people who had taken the blockers. It’s not just the 44 in the second study. And there are others.
Okay but again, any medicine for children can have negative consequences, including death. I’d imagine some of them do, and get pulled, but no-one suggests it was morally wrong to develop and test those.
Is caution necessary? Certainly. Perhaps more than is being applied now. And the data might eventually say they do more harm than good. But it doesn’t so far.
Yet he just posted a study that shows it doesn’t improve these thoughts….
The BBC, a bastion of Christian Conservative zealots:
“ Puberty hormones are linked to changes not just in the body but also in the brain.
Some early data from one study showed some of those taking the drugs reported an increase in thoughts of suicide and self-harm”
“ Several reports have suggested children with gender dysphoria who do not take puberty blockers might be at increased risk of suicidal thoughts.”
Well, it does over the lifetime (first study). Just not in the (second study) teenage years of being non-pubescent. That period has gotta suck for these kids either way.
And the rest of that paragraph:
Some early data from one study showed some of those taking the drugs reported an increase in thoughts of suicide and self-harm, but it was unable to say whether it was the drugs or something else causing this. Experts on clinical trials criticised the design of the study, but said the data warranted further investigation.
Still, I’m glad we’re discussing the science at all. And it certainly isn’t clear-cut yet.
My own feeling is that there’s no good answer either way. Take a trans kid and give them hormone blockers, all sorts of things can go wrong. Take a trans kid and don’t give them hormone blockers, their life continues to suck in ways that are already well-understood. Either way, it’s not a good time.
Edit: Also did you misread the third quote in your post, which doesn’t seem to support your argument?
“ Several reports have suggested children with gender dysphoria who do not take puberty blockers might be at increased risk of suicidal thoughts.”
Nope…it just goes back and forth at this moment. No one knows definitively, which is why you go with common sense and basic scientific truths for now. Chesterton’s Fence and all that.
And basically self refuting.
So we are saying gender is separate from biological sex but we also want to say it can be used to determine gender identity because of male or female brains?
