And the Liberals criticized the Conservatives for forming alliances with Seperatists to try and bring down the Liberal government. This is why I don’t return to Canada that often – the hypocrisy.
Seems like our new Gov. General designate voted for Seperation in 1995.
Jean – come clean! Seriously, this women would do anything to get to the top.
And look who will replace the erudite John Raulston Saul – Jean-Daniel Lafond.
"Mr. Lafond is at the centre of controversy after an article in a sovereigntist publication said he was friendly with former Quebec terrorists, whom he featured in a 1994 documentary.
Novelist Ren
The Conservatives can dig all the way to China, it won’t make any difference while Ontario has shit for brains.
How many times have we seen this scenario played out over the last few years:
[i]Stephen Harper: We’re going to give a portion of the federal gas tax to cities.
Ontario: BOO! HISS! HE’S GOING TO DESTROY HEALTHCARE AND SELL US TO THE AMERICANS!
Paul Martin: We’re going to give a portion of the federal gas tax to cities.
Ontario: HURRAY! OUR HERO! SAVE US FROM STEPHEN HARPER AND HIS SCARY POLICIES, PAUL![/i]
On a more positve note, it was recently reported that 35% of Westerners now look favourably upon seccession; that’s the highest it’s ever been.
That is why we hope Quebec leaves. Once that has happened, Canada is split in half. The West will naturally want to re-evaluate its role within Confederation. With BC’s ample resources and Alberta’s oil it would be a great country :bravo:
That is why we hope Quebec leaves. Once that has happened, Canada is split in half. The West will naturally want to re-evaluate its role within Confederation. With BC’s ample resources and Alberta’s oil it would be a great country :bravo:[/quote]
And with global warming and longer growing seasons, more people will want to move there. 
Canada
glass
half
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[quote=“Chewycorns”]That is why we hope Quebec leaves. Once that has happened, Canada is split in half. The West will naturally want to re-evaluate its role within Confederation. With BC’s ample resources and Alberta’s oil it would be a great country.[/quote] Resources make for a dig it, cut it, catch it economy–not all that healthy–and nothing near a country. Western secession is the sort of stuff that typically plays with very conservative religious communities (The Christian Heritage Party of Canada, for example, plays this card), Albertan oil men and their ilk–who think most of the US is too liberal and take their cues from the most conservative parts of Texas–and wingnut politcos, like David Mitchell. :loco: There are a lot of good reasons for larger, more diverse polities; the reasons for smaller, less diverse polities typically amount a society’s failure to make a larger work. When it’s not ranked first in the world, Canada unfailingly makes the top ten… hardly a failed state, despite the many failures of the government.
I agree. And in this regard, Canada’s economy resembles a third world or emerging economy. However, Western Canada has diversified its economy. BC and Alberta have a healthy services sector. However, I would still say that the economic fortunes of Alberta are highly tied to the fortunes of the oil patch. And with oil reaching 65 dollars a barrel, this has helped to make Alberta the first debt free province in Canada.
I’m an internationally educated, socially tolerant person who has lived over half my life abroad. Do you think I fit into this stereotype? I’m definitely not an Evangelical, but I respect people with strong faiths – no matter what their religion is. If you have read books such as Merciar Eliade’s “The Sacred and the Profane” you would know that many of the world’s religions are found on common principles. Keep your crude stereotypes of Albertans to yourself.
However, I don’t think “faith” should be a dirty word in politics. Reminder of more hypocrisy: Jean Chretien, Paul Martin and Martin’s latest convert, Joe Clark, professes it is OK for them to be Christians (Roman Catholics) because they don’t let their faith influence their political lives. But it is definitely not OK for Preston Manning or Stockwell Day to profess to be Christians (Evangelical) because obviously they can’t be trusted not to let their faith influence their political lives.
If certain politicians proudly profess they leave their faith on the steps of Parliament before entering that edifice, you get to understand why this nation is foundering and government awash in one scandal atop another.
I would be extremely dismayed to learn prominent that Conservatives such as Ezra Levant (Jewish), Rahim Jaffer (Muslim), or Deepak Ohbrai (Hindu) ditched their beliefs on the steps of the House of Commons rather than letting their faith guide them in both their political and personal lives.
How about you?
And these studies are usually UN studies right? 
Why are there so many Canadians in Taiwan? Why are there even more in the United States? Do you deny that the “brain drain” isn’t a problem? The simple fact is this – Countries like Ireland and Israel have grown stronger than Canada in many areas. I blame almost a decade and a half of Liberal rule.
Another great article on our new Governor General designate. Seems she is a big fan of Fidel Castro.
Yup, Martin, who continues in the tradition of his predecessor Jean Chretien to downgrade the institutions and traditions that once made us a great nation, is really going overboard about the pretty and effervescent Michaelle Jean.
The 49-year-old Haitian-born devotee of Lib-Left causes is, in Martin’s eyes, “the story of Canada.”
Beaming, he gushes: “Hers is a story that reminds us of what is best about ourselves and about Canada. A nation where equality of opportunity is our most defining characteristic, giving testament to our longest-held values.”
At least, “one of our most defining characteristics” is apparently no longer our Third- World-style health care system.
To my mind a pertinent “defining characteristic” of the soon-to-be Her Excellency is her documentary celebrating the 40-year rule of Cuban Communist dictator Fidel Castro.
This piece of propaganda, unlikely ever to be shown on The History Channel, gilded over Castro’s forced labour camps, his absolute censorship of the news media, and that average Cubans have to beg Aspirins from tourists because no dilapidated drug store can provide them.
Jean’s neatly crafted ‘bio’ is meant to paint her as a valiant lady who achieved considerable fame after supposedly fleeing the evil regime of Papa Doc Duvalier’s Haiti. Came here penniless, couldn’t even speak English, and worked her way to the top doing menial jobs. That’s the image the Liberals like.
It’s so heartening and inspiring.
In reality, she came from a privileged Haitian family, hardly like some truly wretched Cuban refugee clinging to a raft. Went to university in Montreal, Florence, Milan and Perugia, Italy and mastered French, English, Spanish and Italian.
canoe.ca/NewsStand/Columnist … 65010.html
A Champagne Socialist with a love of Castro – no wonder she is popular with Trudeau Liberals, Paul Martin, and the Eastern Establishment. 
Conrad Black was spot on when he said "Canada is more Stalinist than North Korea.
You make a lot of sensible, pertinent points and then you go and blow your credibility with nonsense like that. My grandparents came out of the original Stalinist state - the Soviet Union (Ukraine) under Stalin and emigrated to Canada. Grandma, one of the most patriotic Canadians and Albertans you could ever have hoped to meet, would have had some choice words for you about Canada’s Stalin-like tendencies. :loco:
I’m an internationally educated, socially tolerant person who has lived over half my life abroad. Do you think I fit into this stereotype?[/quote]I stated “typically”; I neither said, nor implied anything about you specifically.
[quote=“Chewycorns”] I’m definitely not an Evangelical, but I respect people with strong faiths – no matter what their religion is. If you have read books such as Merciar Eliade’s “The Sacred and the Profane” you would know that many of the world’s religions are found on common principles.[/quote] In the rough, which is where we live most of our lives, yes, the principles are very similar. In the fine, they are not. Ramon Pannikar’s “Intra-religious Dialogue” is a great read on both these aspects.
[quote=“Chewycorns”]Keep your crude stereotypes of Albertans to yourself.[/quote] I said, “Albertan oil men and their ilk,” not Albertans in general. Nothing crude about it. Check the stats. There has been a long, close relationship between the Alberta oil patch and Texas. A relationship that extends to the political consultants employed by each. Despite what Ralph might say, Alberta’s pretty diverse, and not everyone agrees with the level of influence the oilmen have… particularly the farmers and ranchers looking for water that’s being diverted.
[quote=“Chewycorns”]I don’t think “faith” should be a dirty word in politics. [/quote] Neither do I, but it’s place should be constrained.
Preston Manning never really had too much trouble with this, everyone knew where he was coming from thanks to his father’s career–but not all Reformers were like him. Stockwell Day made religion far too prominent, and Harper’s fallen back into Manning territory, except that he’s targeted religious communities in an explicit way during his campaigns.
[quote=“Chewycorns”]If certain politicians proudly profess they leave their faith on the steps of Parliament before entering that edifice, you get to understand why this nation is foundering and government awash in one scandal atop another. [/quote] I don’t believe religious observance leads to ethical political behaviour. If you do, I’m very close with a bishop in B.C. with whom you might want to have the debate… he’ll make the argument better than I.
[quote=“Chewycorns”]I would be extremely dismayed to learn prominent that Conservatives such as Ezra Levant (Jewish), Rahim Jaffer (Muslim), or Deepak Ohbrai (Hindu) ditched their beliefs on the steps of the House of Commons rather than letting their faith guide them in both their political and personal lives.
How about you? [/quote] Yeah, me too. But I’d be more disappointed if they were also unable to put them down to consider the broader picture.
And these studies are usually UN studies right? Why are there so many Canadians in Taiwan? Why are there even more in the United States? Do you deny that the “brain drain” isn’t a problem?[/quote]
UN studies, and others totally unrelated. Why are there so many Canadian here and elsewhere? Three reasons. 1) We come from a land prosperous and peaceful enough that we can afford the luxury of travel, and be welcomed wherever we go. 2) We’re from everywhere, makes sense that we’d go there too. 3) Advanced industrial nations typically lack the chaos-factor that makes rapid advancement possible. Where was Ireland ten years ago? Hardly a Celtic tiger. Where is Israel today? Is it not in turmoil? Ditto Taiwan, China, India… Upheaval creates opportunities, which some choose to pursue, typically–again, not exclusively–short-term. So why are there so many Canadians in the States? There’s always between a two-way flow, though one that favours the US, because some people prefer the greater freedom to rise or fall as they will. shrug Brain drain? Canada imports far more educated minds than it exports. I think it should be the other way around. Canada should encourage more people to get valuable training and the to bugger off to the far reaches of the globe. Take those skills elsewhere, make a difference, learn about the world, create a positive impression. Then, come back home with all of the knowledge you’ve gained and share that with other Canadians. Or stay there… if you do it right, you actions will encourage some eager-beaver to come in your place. (Analogous to one of the things Castro got right… educating Latin Americans to become doctors and then sending them on their way to help their people.) Either way, that kind of trade in skills and ideas enriches us all.
And you’re complaining because the new GG is a highly educated and accomplished Haitian-born woman? Because she might have some separatist leanings? Because she might signal (if only it were so!) a greater inclusivity?
You make a lot of sensible, pertinent points and then you go and blow your credibility with nonsense like that. My grandparents came out of the original Stalinist state - the Soviet Union (Ukraine) under Stalin and emigrated to Canada. Grandma, one of the most patriotic Canadians and Albertans you could ever have hoped to meet, would have had some choice words for you about Canada’s Stalin-like tendencies. :loco:[/quote] Ditto, but great-grandmother in my case: German-Ukrainian farmer, settled on the prairies. And Chewycorns, if she were still around she’d pin your ass to the wall for saying that.
Chewycorns, what are you doing quoting Conrad Black? The guy’s a stuffed shirt full of hot air… and that’s a first-hand report.
You make a lot of sensible, pertinent points and then you go and blow your credibility with nonsense like that. My grandparents came out of the original Stalinist state - the Soviet Union (Ukraine) under Stalin and emigrated to Canada. Grandma, one of the most patriotic Canadians and Albertans you could ever have hoped to meet, would have had some choice words for you about Canada’s Stalin-like tendencies. :loco:[/quote]
Whoa!!! Hold your horses. I was just repeating Conrad Black’s (Lord Black of Crossharbour) phrase about Canada being more Stalinist than North Korea. I respect Conrad Black and his knowledge of history. I’ve just finished his 1,200 book on FDR --neocon Black’s hero. If he is comfortable using this phrase, then I am too. Of course, I would be highly sympathetic to your Grandma. How would she feel about Canada’s health care system? Here is another quote from Black:
“At the end of the Trudeau era, Canada was the only country in the world besides North Korea to have outlawed private medicine, and current political wisdom blames successor governments for the health care disaster created twenty years ago.”
That is why we hope Quebec leaves. Once that has happened, Canada is split in half. The West will naturally want to re-evaluate its role within Confederation. With BC’s ample resources and Alberta’s oil it would be a great country :bravo:[/quote]
In the past I believed if Quebec separated the focus of Canadian federal politics would shift westward and the western provinces wouldn’t have to leave.
However, when I look at the way Ontario has been voting the last few elections, the federal government’s (ie: Liberal Party of Canada’s) tendency to use the west, particularly Alberta, as the whipping boy of Confederation, and how egocentric Ontarians are, I now doubt such a shift would occur. It would simply be more of the same, sans le belle Province. The west would still be getting the short end of the stick.
If Canada succeeds in spite of the federal government, is it not logical then to send the federal government packing? I’ve always maitained there is nothing wrong with Canada that getting rid of the feds wouldn’t cure.
Perhaps we can start The Separatist Party of Canada, with the mandate to have all ten provinces and three territories secede.
I still disagree with your statements about Alberta oilmen and oilwomen. Calgary has the youngest, most dynamic workforce in the whole country. There have been numerous studies that confirm this. I think you are holding onto a “1950s” stereotype of the oil patch. In fact, in my opinion, the politics within the oil sector are not as conservative as you may think. Calgary’s conservatism is a “grassroots conservatism.” About the Dallas-Calgary axis — oil is an important industry in both Texas and Alberta. Of course, there are going to be corporate alliances. This is the nature of “free enterprise” – something that many Canadians are brainwashed (by government-funded entities such as the CBC and by teachers in the union-heavy school system) into thinking is a “dirty word.”
[quote=“Jaboney”]When it’s not ranked first in the world, Canada unfailingly makes the top ten… hardly a failed state, despite the many failures of the government
Three reasons. 1) We come from a land prosperous and peaceful enough that we can afford the luxury of travel, and be welcomed wherever we go.[/quote]
Tell that to the one million children (one in six) in Canada that live in poverty. canadiancrc.com/Child_poverty.htm
Ya and the country makes them drive taxis and work in other low-paying service jobs because Canada’s system of recognizing foreign credentials is outdated. Our civil servants are a lazy bunch IMHO. I don’t disagree with your statement that we important more than we export (after all, we are a country of immigrants). However, the people that we lose to the US are often the best and the brightest. I’ve met some of these people at parties in Singapore, London, Tokyo etc., and all of them were severely critical of Canada’s government.
This is expensive. We have one of the most ungenerous student loan programs in the world. I was lucky – my parents financed most of my undergraduate and graduate education. However, I knew many students that could have gone to Harvard, Yale, Oxford etc., but could not find the financing. The rich American universities are generous with scholarships. European states, with roughly the same taxation rates as Canada, provide full scholarships to their citizens if they get into foreign universities and only require repayment based on “earning rates.” For example, my Norweigan friend in London did not have to pay a dime for his studies. My Canadian friends with student loan debts tell me the Canadian banks and student loan program are full of “accounting Nazis.”
hahahahahahaah, ARE YOU SERIOUS? 
After working in Brussels, Singapore, and Taipei, I would never return to Canada to pay high taxes for a shitty product. Again not trying to offend you or Maoman with the Stalinist analogy, but once Canadians find "greater opportunities abroad, once they realize how much tax they pay for an inferior product, and once they realize how statist Canada’s government really is, the last thing they want to do is return. Again, I am basing this comment on meetings with people in the legal, banking, hi-tech, journalism, medical, and even educational industries.
Did you read the Sun article? “Jean’s neatly crafted ‘bio’ is meant to paint her as a valiant lady who achieved considerable fame after supposedly fleeing the evil regime of Papa Doc Duvalier’s Haiti. Came here penniless, couldn’t even speak English, and worked her way to the top doing menial jobs. That’s the image the Liberals like.” In reality, this is entirely untrue. I’m complaining because she is another “champagne socialist” from a wealthy family who Martin “sound-bytes” as representing the average Canadian. A minority woman with a love for Fidel Castro!!! Remember she will soon be, amongst other things, Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces. How will this faddish modern-day flower child measure up to tough-taking Chief of Defence Staff Rick Hillier, who says terrorists are “scumbags” and a soldier’s duty is to “kill”?
I think there were numerous other candidates who would have been better to represent Canadians.
Whoever opens parliament is merely reading a script written by government hacks anyways, so here’s a radical thought: Let the queen represent herself!
The office of the GG only exists because in 1867 it was impossible for the monarch to travel the globe to attend the opening of various parliaments within the empire.
Today, Ottawa is less than 5 hours away from London; and if the queen can’t make it herself she should send a suitable representative (a job for the young princes perhaps?).
Here’s a radical thought: get rid of the bloody Queen entirely!
You’re a)no longer merely a colonial outpost of the U.K., and b) a modern developed nation in the 21st century. There’s no reason for y’all to hang onto a 19th century anachronism.
Hey Chewycorns,
I’ll respond and then leave this alone it’s rapidly sliding away into an entirely different thread.
Alberta oil/ Dallas-Calgary: once the connection’s firmly established, you ought to expect it to have far reaching effects. Today’s Alberta conservatives are holding to a home-grown ideology, but the roots are the same. It’s the ideas that matter, and that’s what I’m talking about. The younger the person, the more likely they are to voice what is essentially an echo of what they’ve been told. I don’t think that this is unreasonable.
If Canadians are “brainwashed (by government-funded entities such as the CBC and by teachers in the union-heavy school system)” at least we can take comfort in their being better informed than anyone brought up on Fox or CNN. (Cite recent study on media awareness that I can’t remember or be bothered to Google… sorry, too much other stuff to do… the dishes are calling.)
Poverty in Canada. 1 in 6 Canadian kids living in poverty is simply a misrepresentation. The formula for deciding what the poverty level is, is to put it mildly, flawed. Heck, two friends of mine in Vancouver, she an accountant, he a programmer, have just bought a condo on the waterfront for a high six- or low seven-figure price. Officially, given the percentage of income that they pay for housing, they live in poverty. That’s not to say lots of kids aren’t badly off… particularly if they happen to be native, or living in the north. But, in general, if you’re born in Canada (or the US, UK, AUS, NZ, FR, GER, HOL, JP, Spain, Italy…) you’ve already won the only lotto in life that really counts. We lucky few have greater degrees of freedom than most can even dream of.
“The people that we lose to the US are often the best and the brightest.” True enough. It’s an old debate. Do you want to strive to produce the best and brightest, by investing in them, or do you want to produce a lower level of more general excellence by investing more broadly? I’ve got to go with the second choice: it produces a healthier society, plus, if not for that strategy I wouldn’t have gotten the education I did.
Canada should encourage more people to get valuable training, and it is expensive. But worthwhile. Yes, “we have one of the most ungenerous student loan programs in the world.” Yes, you were lucky that your parents financed most of my undergraduate and graduate education. Mine couldn’t. They helped with tuition and books. And I got to stay at home for the first part of it, and had a vehicle to drive down the freeway to the community college where I did my undergrad. But I had to take out student loans, as did my sister. I’m not sure what she owes, but for me its somewhere in the neighbourhood of $1,000,000 NT. Damn, I’m glad I had the chance to take out a mortgage on my brain… I ain’t complaining. US schools are more generous with the few because they can afford to be, thanks to milking the many… but if I’d been there, I wouldn’t have gotten past first, let alone around to third base. European states invest more in education, and so should Canada. Hell, my sister got into a school over there for her graduate studies, and it’s tuition free. (Though they’ve since changed that, and for future students it’ll cost the earth.)
Yes, I’m serious: go forth, see the world, and come back. Or don’t. Someone out there will look at you, know where you come from, and head back that way. Not everyone has to go back. Not everyone wants to, or should. To me, it’s home. Always will be, even if I live elsewhere. And even if it weren’t, I’d feel a connection to it and an obligation to give something back… it ain’t all about taxes, a fat bank account and bling-bling. Personally, I feel money is a pretty impoverished metric for the measure of anything resembling a fully human life.
Yeah, I read the Sun article, and of course it’s crafted. It is (largely) a ceremonial job after all… what else is there to it besides image?
[quote=“Chewycorns”] I’m complaining because she is another “champagne socialist” from a wealthy family who Martin “sound-bytes” as representing the average Canadian. A minority woman with a love for Fidel Castro!!! Remember she will soon be, amongst other things, Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces. How will this faddish modern-day flower child measure up to tough-taking Chief of Defence Staff Rick Hillier, who says terrorists are “scumbags” and a soldier’s duty is to “kill”? [/quote] So complain about Martin’s spin doctors, not her. Good for her, she came out of a good situation gone bad, and went on to do bigger and better things. Nothing wrong with that. She loves Fidel? Great, good to hear it. There are things to love about him, just as there are things to love about Bush, and Chirac, and loads of other guys I wouldn’t vote for, but might enjoy sitting down with for an evening of dinner and conversation.
And there’s no reason for her to measure up to Hillier. He packs a gun, she carries flowers. Do you expect the Queen to do a march with a full pack?
[quote=“Chewycorns”]I think there were numerous other candidates who would have been better to represent Canadians.[/quote]Sure there loads of other candidates, but beyond the media spin and your dislike of her politics, are there substantial reasons why she should have been excluded? Does she not represent excellence in a multicultural environment? I get that you’re unhappy with something in this choice or process, but I think that your unhappiness may be misdirected. Just a thought: you know you far better than I ever shall. Peace.
[quote=“Chewycorns”]
Seems like our new Gov. General designate voted for Seperation in 1995.
. [/quote]
Maybe she did, but there is nothing in your link that shows that.
And I’m all in favour of Western separatism, as long as we acknowledge that the East begins at the Crow’s Nest Pass. 
[quote=“Jaboney”]Hey Chewycorns,
I’ll respond and then leave this alone it’s rapidly sliding away into an entirely different thread. [/quote]
No worries…an interesting debate – I enjoyed it thoroughly.
I disagree. I don’t think the young oil executives and professionals in Calgary are that mallaeble. Furthermore, most executives these days aren’t even from Calgary. Having the lowest unemployment in Canada, the lowest taxes, and arguably the most opportunity, people are flocking from the rest of Canada and also internationally. Hell, when I worked with MOFA in Taiwan, two of my colleagues were considering immigrating to Canada ( I facilitated this process for them by writing them both “bitching” letters of recommendation.) They both wanted to live in Calgary. Of course, I did a little marketing. 
I’m not so sure. I value having the freedom of watching CNN, Fox News, the BBC, TV5 in Paris, and many other media sources. Left or Right – I read them all. When I was in Thailand during the 2004 US Primaries, I enjoyed the Fox News coverage thoroughly. It is marketed to the masses who want quick soundbytes and for this market – it does a wonderful job. Not watching it that often, I was also quite suprised on how balanced the coverage actually was.
Furthemore, while I don’t deny that CNN and Fox report from a centre-left and right-wing American perspective, at least Americans can view CBC if they want to. As Canadians, we are not allowed to have Fox News on any cable package. When Martin’s Liberals passed a law that prohibits Fox from being broadcasted on cable, I thought this is “statism” in full force. Again, I refer to my previous message on Stalinism.
The left-wing and anti-American bias within the CBC is a given. For example, take the UN Oil for Food Scandal. You hear about this man? Maurice Strong? CBC has hardly covered this at all. Why? Doesn’t want to bite the hand that feeds them and offend its government patrons.
canadafreepress.com/2005/cover072305.htm
canadiancoalition.com/canadafree … andal.html
Also check out the first two April 24 entries on the smalldeadanimals.com/archives/2005_04.html
I’m not sure about that – I think it is a more serious problem than people like to admit.
I think the middle classes are taxed to death in Canada. With property prices soaring in BC (I just bought ocean front property on Vancouver Island, so I don’t mind all that much), I think lots of young people are finding it hard to make ends meet. Isn’t the solution lower taxes and more individual choices when it comes to health care, private pensions etc?
My own opinion is that the free-market works best. I am not against paying for a high quality education – especially if it is at a “big name” school. I think the Scandinavian system, where the government pays it all, and then deducts it from future earnings, is the best for socialized countries. Of course, the American free-market systems works well too because of generous endowments at many schools. Canada’s student loan system is a hybrid of these systems. By trying to please everyone – it pleases no-one – a disctinctively Canadian trait. Furthemore, the student loan system badgers students for repayment. I’m glad I don’t have to deal with those “accounting nazis.” Unfortunately, too many of my friends do.
I agree 100 percent. But when I see a friend of mine with a masters in journalism from a Canadian uni getting paid 15,000US, paying high taxes, and eating macaroni and cheese, I think the system is pretty weak. For most working people, money is important to ensure a high quality of life and the freedom to pursue interesting hobbies.