Canadian Elections

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Will a Tory victory mean a Canada more like America? Will relations then improve between US and Canada? Would Canada then become involved in Iraq?

June 28 is coming up.

[quote=“fred smith”]http://www.canada.com/national/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=94468fc4-4179-4a32-b0c6-4ddd41b9d3c4

Will a Tory victory mean a Canada more like America? Will relations then improve between US and Canada? Would Canada then become involved in Iraq?

June 28 is coming up.[/quote]

The Liberals will win a minority government and may even need the support of the NDP :astonished: to remain in government. If the Conservatives under Mr. Harper win, relations with the U.S will improve considerably. He will boost military spending (something that needs to be done BIG TIME) and will become involved in Iraq (about time) Most ex-Reform MPs are from Alberta (my home province) and the prairies. Albertans especially are heavily pro-Bush and will welcome warmer relations between Ottawa and Washington DC. The problem is, the Conservatives won’t win. Their support in Quebec and the maritime provinces runs behind the socialistic NDP and the Liberals. In my opinion, the Conservatives will have a hard time winning with Harper at the helm. He is simply too right-wing for the average Canadian. He supports two-tiered medical care (something I agree with but 99% percent of Canadians do not), gun rights, is anti-abortion, and has come down as being hard on immigration. This plays well in Calgary but not in wishy-washy liberal places. However, a few more scandals (like the sponsorship scandal) and anything is possible. I would like to see the Conservatives replace Harper with a more red-Tory sort of candidate. The red-tories are a good breed. Of course, this can not happen until after the next election. Still new blood, on the left and right, would be good to replace the boring, Eastern people also known as Liberal party hacks.

Why not give Quebec back to France?

Wouldn’t that help?

[quote=“fred smith”]Why not give Quebec back to France?

Wouldn’t that help?[/quote]

Nope. Canada was founded on the premise of being an English and French speaking country. As a result, the Quebecers are given huge political and economic sweeteners from the Federal Government. While separatism was strong in the 1990s it is weak today. IF a referendum was help tomorrow the

Here is one US American’s assessment of the coming Canadian election:

post-gazette.com/pg/04158/327201.stm

Any comments, Chewy?

[quote=“tigerman”]Here is one US American’s assessment of the coming Canadian election:

post-gazette.com/pg/04158/327201.stm

Any comments, Chewy?[/quote]

My money is now on the Conservatives. The poll numbers have changed in the last week. The Conservatives now are only one percent behind the Liberals in Ontario

Although the election system is a model of efficiency (we only got 6 weeks boys!, let 'her rip) a key piece of the puzzle is still missing: qualified candidates and ideologies. In what other country in the world can a provincial seperatist party be a national force for christ’s sake?! And as for the other parties, its either a party that doesn’t do much for anything in the west (liberals) except the occasional public coffer pilfering, or a party that is just so darn glad alberta has dirty sand up north and is so set on doing anything and everything Mr Bush might possibly ask for… sigh, what’s a bloke to do? On the bright side, at least its not as hard a choice as voting in the Phillipines would have been…

Canada will be moving even harder to the left…I will definitely be a global citizen for at least four more years, if not for my whole life. :wink: heheheheheheh :smiling_imp: I’m a man of the left on a global scale, but Canada needs a kick in the ass and some hard right initiatives.

thestar.com/
www.globeandmail.ca

I voted Liberal. Yes, they’ve wasted billions of our dollars, some of those billions even unaccounted for, but in lieu of spoiling my ballot, or stripping my clothes off at the voting booth and screaming in Chinese that I hate all of the parties equally (though for different reasons) while performing a non-partisan interpretive dance illustrating my disgust with Canadian politicians, I figured I might as well help condemn our country to a second helping of the same old same old. At least they’re a minority, meaning that perhaps they won’t do as much harm (fingers crossed).

Funny, though, in my riding the NDP won. Blech. As a small business person of integrity, with at least a semblance of a functioning brain, I shudder to think of what it would mean for Canada if the New Demotic Party were ever to gain much of a foothold on even a provincial level again, never mind federally. Where the Liberals lie about not raising taxes and then raise them anyway, the NDP are up front about raising taxes and then raise them even higher. I saw Jack Layton on a panel discussing the impending war in Iraq last year, and found his position to be tiresome in the way he simply parrotted the Chomsky line from start to finish. This time out the NDP won a paltry 22 out of 308 seats. I’m quite pleased with that. It shows that voters haven’t completely lost their ballbearings.

I wanted badly to vote Conservative. They are what Canada needs more of. But I’m a social “progressive,” and deep down simply do not trust those on the social right who would quibble at gay marriage, legalized marijuana, or many of the other social shibboleths that knock-kneed NDPers hold dear.

So, basically, I’m Christopher Hitchens. Which means that there’s no chance in hell I’ll ever find a name on the ballot that doesn’t disgust me somewhat. I am part of no constituency, condemned forever to be non-partisan.

We’ve been involved in Iraq since the beginning. Not in a very big way but we have supplied personnel and money. So Fred, I guess I gets to say alls I wants now, eh?

Chewie how on earth has Canada moved closer to the left in the last 10 years except for social issues like gay rights and pot smoking? Taxes are lower than ever and the business environment one of the best in the world. The liberal plan is for continual tax reductions for business over the next five years. As for our much vaunted social safety network it took a backseat to balancing the budget.

Since Paul Martin was largely responsible for reviving the Canadian economy it seems unlikely, even with a minority government, we will move anywhere near the left on fiscal matters.

By the way, why do you think military spending needs to be increased BIG TIME? What imminent threat are we facing?

We’ve been involved in Iraq since the beginning. Not in a very big way but we have supplied personnel and money. So Fred, I guess I gets to say alls I wants now, eh?

Chewie how on earth has Canada moved closer to the left in the last 10 years except for social issues like gay rights and pot smoking? Taxes are lower than ever and the business environment one of the best in the world. The liberal plan is for continual tax reductions for business over the next five years. As for our much vaunted social safety network it took a backseat to balancing the budget.

Since Paul Martin was largely responsible for reviving the Canadian economy it seems unlikely, even with a minority government, we will move anywhere near the left on fiscal matters.

By the way, why do you think military spending needs to be increased BIG TIME? What imminent threat are we facing?[/quote]

Terrorism. Canada has been a safe haven for terrorists and our image in the world has been significantly tarnished under consecutive Liberal governments. In my line of work (international development), Canada spends significantly less than it did under Trudeau. As you know with the military, Canadian servicemen had to hitch a ride to Afghanistan and drive around in second-rate jeeps while stationed there. Disgraceful, considering our troops used to have a reputation as being tough (especially in the Korean War). I also remember a bunch of our navy ships were grounded because of a lack of funding. What really irks the shit out of me is the

Wow! Chewy. You admire the politician best remembered for his concession speech in which he blamed “the ethnics” for defeated his bid to become king of Quebec?

I admired how he kept talking while his obviously hammered wife tried to keep from falling off the stage, but that’s something altogether different. Back to deeply divisive, offensive race-baiting, here, here!!!

I’ve noticed something on the politics thread: the people who support the Iraq war, like the Bushes and the Parizeaus of the world seem to also be the people who get into nasty fights with others, say rude things about mothers looking for their lost sons, resort to insults when their own theories of how the world works are questioned or disproved.

Nasty politics = nasty people.

Guess so.

[quote=“rooftop”]Wow! Chewy. You admire the politician best remembered for his concession speech in which he blamed “the ethnics” for defeated his bid to become king of Quebec?

I admired how he kept talking while his obviously hammered wife tried to keep from falling off the stage, but that’s something altogether different. Back to deeply divisive, offensive race-baiting, here, here!!!

I’ve noticed something on the politics thread: the people who support the Iraq war, like the Bushes and the Parizeaus of the world seem to also be the people who get into nasty fights with others, say rude things about mothers looking for their lost sons, resort to insults when their own theories of how the world works are questioned or disproved.

Nasty politics = nasty people.

Guess so.[/quote]

Just because I admire Parizeau doesn’t mean I agreed with his speech after the PQ lost the referendum (but give him a break, he was slightly pissed at the time) You’ve never done or said something stupid when inebriated? OR are you a moral hypocrite? As for being rude and mean, every person who meets me has come to a different conclusion. Regarding Fred Frontier, if you did some backtracking and research instead of “shooting from the hip” you would see I provided people with the bank account number of Ms. Klita last year to help her with funding. However, I speak my mind. I think its time for her to move on. Please apologize for calling me a race-baiter. As someone who has an Asian girlfriend, who values multiculturalism, and who has lost jobs for standing up for human rights (Singapore), I find your comments deeply offensive.

I apologize that my post, or the way it was written was unclear.

I meant for the race-baiting comment to read as Parizeau continuing on with it, not you.

Sure, I’ve said things when pissed that were less than stellar. It’s the context that counts.

For example: I get drunk and say “Fuck you asswipe” in different settings.

a) a friend’s houseparty
b) in a kindergarten class
c) in a meeting with my boss

I think that most people might excuse “a” (though I might not get invited to lots of house parties from then on, but I digress…) but in “b” and “c” they might not tend to be so forgiving.

Now, more pertinent to the Parizeau example, it also depends on relationship & status.

So, if I say something like “these little yellow bastards are driving me nuts” in the same three situations mentioned above, none of them are laudable, and at least two would merit dismissal. The “b” somewhat mirrors the Parizeau speech situation in terms of people looking for representation or care from a leader figure.

More importantly, he was an elected leader, in one of the tensest times in our history basically inciting an already very angry mob. Hey! That sounds like what Soong & Lien Chen did so recently.

In fairness, there is more to any politician than one speech, and I did not know of your previous posts offerig to assist Ms. Kilta. So, I apologize for that. Sorry.

Rooftop,

No problem. I accept your apology. Parizeau spoke bluntly that night and it diminished his stature for sure. However, to a certain extent it was true. The separatists won the francophone vote narrowly, and were defeated only by the English-speaking voters in Montreal However, please don

Chewy how anyone can travel to 50 countries and not develop an appreciation for a free, prosperous, tolerant, lawful nation such as Canada? Are you being willfully perverse here? You sound like a liberal: unable to make sound judgments. Bush is evil, just like Saddam. Canada is a shitty country, just like the Sudan. :unamused:

Ok Whoa!

I wrote that one speech does not make the politician.

I wrote that Parizeau and Soong/Chan both appealed to tribalism at best, and racism at worst (with Soong/Chan going on to make all kinds of wild accusations Parizeau did not) and these were both irresponsible things to do given the timing/emotions running through the crowd.

Comparing the actions of two politicians on nights they both lost does not a comparision between political styles make.

So, I have done no such thing as demonstrate my ignorance of politics.

What you have done however, is demonstrate a certain penchant for making inflamatory statements and, while I can see how you misunderstood the race-baiting comment and who I meant to attribute it to, this one just seems like twisting my words.

But you know, your greatest offence in my eyes is casting a dark pall over a beloved childhood friend. I hate that from now on I will think right-winger whenever I see Chewbacca!!! Damn

[quote=“rooftop”]Ok Whoa!

I wrote that one speech does not make the politician.

I wrote that Parizeau and Soong/Chan both appealed to tribalism at best, and racism at worst (with Soong/Chan going on to make all kinds of wild accusations Parizeau did not) and these were both irresponsible things to do given the timing/emotions running through the crowd.

Comparing the actions of two politicians on nights they both lost does not a comparision between political styles make.

So, I have done no such thing as demonstrate my ignorance of politics.

What you have done however, is demonstrate a certain penchant for making inflamatory statements and, while I can see how you misunderstood the race-baiting comment and who I meant to attribute it to, this one just seems like twisting my words.

But you know, your greatest offence in my eyes is casting a dark pall over a beloved childhood friend. I hate that from now on I will think right-winger whenever I see Chewbacca!!! Damn[/quote]

I’m not right-wing. In fact, the only vote I ever cast in Canada was for Nelson Riis. Didn’t much care for his politics, but he was one of the biggest skirt-chasers in Ottawa :notworthy:

[quote=“rooftop”]Ok Whoa!

I wrote that one speech does not make the politician.

I wrote that Parizeau and Soong/Chan both appealed to tribalism at best, and racism at worst (with Soong/Chan going on to make all kinds of wild accusations Parizeau did not) and these were both irresponsible things to do given the timing/emotions running through the crowd.

Comparing the actions of two politicians on nights they both lost does not a comparision between political styles make.

So, I have done no such thing as demonstrate my ignorance of politics.

What you have done however, is demonstrate a certain penchant for making inflamatory statements and, while I can see how you misunderstood the race-baiting comment and who I meant to attribute it to, this one just seems like twisting my words.

But you know, your greatest offence in my eyes is casting a dark pall over a beloved childhood friend. I hate that from now on I will think right-winger whenever I see Chewbacca!!! Damn[/quote]

This statement could be applied to any political party in any situation in any country. In Taiwan, one could argue that the pan-green forces are made up mostly of Taiwanese, and pan blues of mainlanders or locals they co-opted into the KMT. Throughout the world, people choose their company based on who they feel comfortable with. This is not always true, but in many instances it is. Class and ethnicity are two huge determining factors. Is tribalism a good or negative development? I think it is a common trait throughout history and if you take any social situation, you will see it develop. The question that must be asked vis-

Parizeau’s comments were what started this, so let’s deal with that first.

He angrily denounced the “ethnics” for robbing the PQ of their victory. I don’t think you could apply that to any politician in any country. Unless we are operating under different understandings of the word, I think we can agree that he did not mean anglophones when he said that. He meant non-whites.

Before you jump on me for presuming to read his mind, and before this becomes an endless battle over semantics, the post-election night coverage and summaries were exhaustive. He was raked accross the coals for this then, and it was agreed - even by members of his own party who were quick to publicly distance themselves - that he was speaking about non-whites. Since the speech was in French (Oh Fred Smith, where are you? It’s the other “F” word…) the exacts words used were “les ethnies” which is used to describe non-whites (how many people would say “the ethnics”? It is a dreict translation and loses some of its meaning as such).

So, I stand by my original assertion that it was a dark and ugly moment for him, and for those of us who tuned in on that very stressful November night.

Soong/Chan come of as desperate thugs willing to pull any trick or lie out of any hat in order to somehow acheive power here. But, again, I’m not comparing Parizeau with them. Merely the similarity, sour grapes and racist tactics of their words and actions while “conceding” defeat in the elections. Ok, no, S&C did not concede defeat - acknowledge election results.