[quote=“ironlady”]
Themʻs fightinʻ words! :no-no: Itʻs not a mistranslation, bucko. He had an airline ticket. It was valid for him to leave Taiwan that night. [/quote]
there is a comma error. it makes it seem like he BOUGHT his ticket that night, as opposed to FLYING that night.
If you were an experienced translator , you would know exactly this problem.
comma problem = mistranslation
I’m not joking and stop calling me Shirley.
[quote=“Gits Ferrari”][quote=“ironlady”]
Themʻs fightinʻ words! :no-no: Itʻs not a mistranslation, bucko. He had an airline ticket. It was valid for him to leave Taiwan that night. [/quote]
there is a comma error. it makes it seem like he BOUGHT his ticket that night, as opposed to FLYING that night.
If you were an experienced translator , you would know exactly this problem.
comma problem = mistranslation
I’m not joking and stop calling me Shirley.[/quote]
First, ironlady IS an experienced translator, with superb Chinese.
Second, 還已買好當晚離台機票 clearly means “[He] had earlier (or already) purchased (or simply ‘had purchased’) a ticket for a flight which that evening would leave Taiwan”. ‘That night’ clearly modifies the plane’s departure in the Mandarin original. You and ironlady are both aware of this; I just point it out for others reading this.
Ironlady’s rendition as “…the boyfriend had purchased an airline ticket to leave Taiwan that night…” is not wrong, as ‘to leave Taiwan that evening’ is one of the two possible meanings of the English sentence she rendered. I do agree that it’s potentially ambiguous, as some may read it as having purchased the ticket that night. But it’s not a mistranslation per se; there’s just room for greater clarity in the wording of that particular line in her translation-- which, btw, she provided free of charge for the benefit of others reading this thread who don’t read Chinese or haven’t got time to plough through it at the moment – so there’s no need to be so critical IMO.
out of the loop… 
any news on what happened here?
No, but I’ll tell you this (again):
其男友還已買好當晚離台機票，
the-boyfriend also already buy-complete “same-night leave-Taiwan airplane-ticket.”
same-night leave-Taiwan modifies airline-ticket.
The Chinese original says he held a ticket to leave Taiwan that same night.
I only translate the news, Shirley. But I’ve made a fairly good living at it for some time now. :raspberry:
[quote=“Dragonbones”]First, ironlady IS an experienced translator, with superb Chinese.
Second, 還已買好當晚離台機票 clearly means “[He] had earlier (or already) purchased (or simply ‘had purchased’) a ticket for a flight which that evening would leave Taiwan”. ‘That night’ clearly modifies the plane’s departure in the Mandarin original. You and ironlady are both aware of this; I just point it out for others reading this.
Ironlady’s rendition as “…the boyfriend had purchased an airline ticket to leave Taiwan that night…” is not wrong, as ‘to leave Taiwan that evening’ is one of the two possible meanings of the English sentence she rendered. I do agree that it’s potentially ambiguous, as some may read it as having purchased the ticket that night. But it’s not a mistranslation per se; there’s just room for greater clarity in the wording of that particular line in her translation-- which, btw, she provided free of charge for the benefit of others reading this thread who don’t read Chinese or haven’t got time to plough through it at the moment – so there’s no need to be so critical IMO.[/quote]
Wow, from a translator’s point of view, this is a textbook example of inadvertant target text ambiguity, and Dragonbones’s analysis is spot on. It can happen to the best and most professional of translators (Ironlady in this case).
And Gits Ferrari, as a writer yourself (and by extension as a reader) you should recognize the tendency of natural language to fall into ambiguity and not be so quick to lock onto a single interpretation (i.e. the harshest criticism that could reasonably be leveled at the translation is inadvertant ambiguity, which is very far removed from “BS” or “mistranslation”). That said, clearly you have a well-meaning interest in this case (supporting an evidently innocent friend suspected of involvement with a crime) that may have lead you to go overboard in your criticism of a well-intentioned translation.
Uhm so language aside whats going on with this case? Whats the latest?
[quote=“Ktownboy”]the days where the police would beat confessions out of people and then use it to send them to the the executioner are gone.
Police beatings for confessions have been reduced, but not eliminated.
Why do you think AIT had to step in when the American named Dave was being interrogated last year in KHH for the murder of that agent? His Filipina girlfriend later confessed and he sadly commited suicide soon after returning to the US.
The Canadian trade office tends take a much more ‘hands off’ approach to their citizens in trouble than AIT, so I hope this guy gets treated fairly.[/quote]
Sad case all around for a few bucks. Did the phillippino woman get the death penalty or life in prison? Any news on that?
Wrong thread, Tommy.
Anyway, back to the case at hand, I think we should all remind ourselves of the maxim “innocent until proven guilty”.
[quote=“Dragonbones”]Wrong thread, Tommy.
Anyway, back to the case at hand, I think we should all remind ourselves of the maxim “innocent until proven guilty”.[/quote]
Is that the case under German or Japanese law, though? I’m not too sure.
Good question. I was really thinking about posters jumping to conclusions in a thread like this, though. Happens all the time. Some girl says she was raped, some mom says her kid says someone molested him, some girlfriend is found dead, and an awful lot of people forget to presume innocence. But people do lie, kids do get manipulated, consciously or not, into imagining things or lying, and people do jump out of windows on their own. 
The time I sat through part of the court proceedings of a rape case (as part of a high school Civics assignment) really drove this point home for me (the girl turned out to be lying – she had made the whole story up to avoid getting in trouble for coming home late :loco:). Until that point in time I had generally assumed that if someone said they were molested or raped, the guy was guilty for sure – after all, who would lie about something like that? But it does happen.
so… no news then
and dragon bones, good point, thats why I was requesting more inifo before jumping to any conclusions, seems like both results are possible, and probably 100 others we havent thought about (another guy picks up the girl who is angry and seeking revenge on bf so gets into strangers car…)
and thanks for the translation, it probably wouldve taken me a few years to have been able to read it!
[quote=“sandman”][quote=“Dragonbones”]Wrong thread, Tommy.
Anyway, back to the case at hand, I think we should all remind ourselves of the maxim “innocent until proven guilty”.[/quote]
Is that the case under German or Japanese law, though? I’m not too sure.[/quote]
Under Taiwan’s current Criminal Procedure Code, the burden of proof falls on the prosecutor, so yes defendants are presumed innocent until proven guilty here. Whether they are actually treated as innocent until proven guilty may often be a different story.
[Edit: The article of Taiwan law concerning the presumption of innocence is Art. 154, para. 1 of the Criminal Procedure Code:
被告未經審判證明有罪確定前，推定其為無罪。
A defendant is presumed innocent until tried and proven guilty by final and conclusive adjudication. (my translation)]
I love it when posts resurface. I think it was my fault.
Well what can I say since I’ve been Cai Niao for just about ever, and my avatar has disappeared and never returned… Poor monkey, but he’s got the chicks and that’s what’s important. I however have just returned from a three week trip to Taiwan. I have just returned to the USA to find my grandmother in unacceptable conditions and had to throw my own mother out of my grandma’s house. Now I’m dedicated to take care of her full time and can’t return to TW for a while.
Anyways, while I was in TW I did see the friend that this thread is about, and can give you a well deserved update.
Let me at this point say that part of my goal in Taiwan was to print the sequel to my first novel, NSJS, called, The Oil Sands of Alberta. However, because I’m not a professional writer, the light at the end of the tunnel turned out to be a lot brighter than originally expected and was much farther away, so I didn’t print anything. Luckily I actually fell back in love with the story, so I hope you’ll like it. almost there! (take a look at the cover at theoilsandsofalberta.com)
Now I had actually requested , upon request from my friend just last week, that this thread be deleted, meaning whatever will stop google from making it pop up. However, when I wrote the request, I was accidentally using the new ID card I got in California too much, and accidentally threw in information that might have been perceived as a having a bug in my ass, and the whole thing was inadvertently stamped wanker and thrust into cyberspace, so I decided to respond with what I CAN tell you.
He still can’t leave the country, but ever since the Xindian police department was taken off the case, and the CIB put on it, all investigation has stopped. My friend was never arrested, and (since he has great legal representation) (in fact I think I might like to promote this TW lawyer since my friend had family lawyers helped find him find and he’s the cheapest too). Now they know the local laws. In fact, did you know that the prosecutor must ask any questions in court as the questions that police ask a suspect are not admissible in court? My friend, who is very intelligent , was quoting TW law to me. He said this first phase was just a waiting game.
However, the facts unfortunately show that my other friend had already tried committing suicide before and it was documented. The family didn’t bring charges against my 1st friend until after her body was cremated. There is literally no evidence. It’s called revenge therapy.
Dig it!
I’m not into this translation debate, because I love translators, and I would never want to dog on them. Whatever I said in the past was based on an emotional outburst of words, just words, when I thought that “same day ticket” meant a ticket bought on the same day it was to be used, which is unlike the reality of my friend buying his ticket in advance and using it on a future date. I know this personally because I just used the same travel agent who he used (Mother Teresa Travel) who actually sold him this ticket. She’s great and takes care of you.
No! Obviously what the translator meant was that my friend was “detained”, not “arrested”, on the same day he was to fly home for his fore-planned Christmas trip.
Yes, words, just words. Those damn ID cards. What DID happen to Mel Gibson?
Oh, last thing, I’m not a reader. I like Charles Bukowski, read all his novels, didn’t get into poems much.
Its sad for the young lady either way. But certainly more unjust if she didnt end her own life. What about your friend. When can he leave Taiwan should he choose to? I dont suppose there is any overstaying of visa worries in such a case as he cant leave.
Lets hope he is cleared of any wrong doing, provided he is innocent as you say . And at this point we dont have any evidence otherwise far as I gather?
I was rereading the translation of Ironlady, and can see that she made no mistake. “had purchased” definitely implies something that happened in the past and was completed. If you had just used the simple form, “he purchased”, then it would have definitely been confusing.
Like I said, i was in an emotional tirade. My Grad school is Monterey Institute, and the translation school there is hard, and everyone who goes there has dreams of becoming an interpreter, but unfortunately most don’t make it.
My Chinese sucks by the way.
So there was never an arrest and my friend asks that this article be posted.
Dear Gits,
hope that you are doing well. I sure miss North America. I’m sure that I will soon have my travel ban lifted, and I will be allowed to return home.
Attached you will find one of the newspaper articles and translation below the article regarding my case. TV Journalists also went to my former apartment and reported that the Criminal Investigation Bureau had proven my innocence.
To my surprise, all of Yen Ling’s family members were asked to take a lie detector test. They all refused. The Prosecutor’s decision fully exonerated me, and made the family look very dishonest and malicious.
The prosecutor provided evidence and concluded that the family had been harassing me throughout this entire process… In one of the last statements of the Prosecutor’s decision, it was noted: According to Taiwan’s rule of law, the accused cannot be indicted on accusations based of speculation and guessing.
更新日期:2009/06/03 12:44
社會中心／台北報導
台北縣失蹤27天的女子陳彥伶，被人發現身首異處、陳屍在住家後方的山坡上，警方原本懷疑同居的加拿大籍男友勞克涉嫌殺人棄屍，但台北地檢署用「兩個水瓶」確定陳彥伶是跳樓自殺，還了勞克清白。
陳彥伶與美語教師勞克同居，根據勞克的說法，去年11月21日深夜他晚歸，陳彥伶懷疑他劈腿，兩人大吵一架，23日上午陳彥伶坐在陽台牆上，被他勸下來後，她又在寬僅20公分的陽台牆上來回走著，並說，「你要看我死嗎？」
勞克表示，他把女友抱下來後，但她仍持續大吵，他只好把她推出家門，陳女撂下一句話，「你這輩子再也看不到我了！」而因為陳女已離家十多次，勞克並不理會。
失蹤27天的陳彥伶被發現陳屍在新店住家後方的山坡上身首異處，因為失蹤之前她與勞克大吵一架，並且勞克搬了家、打算返回加拿大，因此警方將矛頭指向這名外籍男友，並依殺人罪送辦。
之後，檢察官會同警方再回到他們的住處，重新釐清陳彥伶的死因，檢方採用科學辦案法，只靠兩個水瓶拋擲，就還了勞克的清白。檢察官邱舜韶認為，陳彥伶如果是被人從高樓丟下，落點應該會是靠近大樓的地點，但是她的陳屍處，卻是更遠的樹叢，而陳屍的山區險峻，被扛到該處棄屍的可能性低。
檢方根據陳屍地點上方的樹枝折痕和被撞擊的岩石，研判她是「先小跑步，再從住處頂樓跳下」，原本被列為殺人罪被告的勞克，也因為檢方的步步確認，沒有白受冤屈。
※ NOWnews.com今日新聞提醒您：自殺不能解決問題，勇敢求救並非弱者，生命一定可以找到出路。透過守門123步驟-1問2應3轉介，你我都可以成為自殺防治守門人。※ 安心專線：0800-788-995(0800-請幫幫-救救我)※ 張老師專線：1980
Twigs, Bottles prove suicide
United Daily: June 3, 2009
Hsiung, Nai-chen
Forensic evidence showed that a woman ran and leapt to her death, exonerating her live-in boyfriend from suspicion of murder.
Chen Yen-ling’s head and body were found separated on a steep slope behind her apartment building 22 days after she went missing. Police had at first suspected My friend, the Canadian boyfriend teaching English in Taiwan, of murder and the disposal of the body.
Chen had been involved with my friend for five years. They lived together before she disappeared after a quarrel on November 23, 2008. When her body was found, My friend had vacated the apartment and bought an airline ticket to leave Taiwan. Police detained him for questioning under suspicion of committing murder.
My friend denied any wrongdoing. He said Chen claimed he was cheating on her when he returned home in the late evening of November 21 after a dinner gathering with students. She smashed the coffee pot and alarm clock to vent her anger. In the morning of November 23, my friend woke up to find Chen sitting on the balcony railing. He coaxed her and scooped her down from the balcony railing only to find her climb back on the railing again, this time walking back and forth on top of the 20-centimeter-wide railing, saying “do you want to watch me die?”
She was still kicking and screaming when my friend grabbed and shut her out of the apartment door to keep her from hurting herself. The last words he heard before she went missing was, “You’ll never see me again in your life!” Later, my friend went downstairs to look for her to no avail. In the past, Chen had run away from home 10 times. Circumstances caused my friend not to pursue the matter further, though he insisted he didn’t kill her.
Upon inspection of the steep hillside where the remains of the body were found, Taipei District Court prosecutor Qiu Shuenshau concluded that it’s unlikely for someone to carry the body from another location and dump it at the site where the body was located. From the snapped twigs and scraping marks on the rock above, she believes this was the primary scene. Chen must have fallen from the roof of her apartment building.
Did she jump, trip over something, or was she pushed? Qiu instructed police to simulate the drop with water bottles. It was surmised that a man of ordinary strength couldn’t have possibly hurled a body so far away from the base of the building. There must have been an “initial horizontal velocity”. Namely, Chen must have run to pick up speed before jumping. This finding ruled out foul play.
I heard them Canookislovakistanians can wrestle mooses. It would therefore be easy to throw a mere slip of a girl out a window and down a brae. GUILTY!
A moose is no easy tangent. They speak Moosinee!
A moose is no easy tangent. They speak Moosinee![/quote]
You guys are missing the point.
It ain’t that the meeses are that hard to wrassle, it’s just that they all look like Ron Perlman.
So you’d rather just go for a beer and hear Hellboy stories…
So shirely, they can be bought off cheaply?