Capital in Nanjing vs. Provisional Capital

Politics Taiwan Politics
1

How does everyone feel about the Republic of China’s Provisional Capital?

Overall, I’d say it’s a good choice, with friendly people, a good infrastructure, plenty of business opportunities, bountiful black-haired beauties (and some with tasteless hair dye) but how does it compare with Nanjing?

Specifically in critical measurements of value such as comparitive numbers of shopping malls, chou dofu vendors, babes rated 9 (perfect 10 is difficult to obtain), and Best Implementation of the Three Principles of the People.

Also, which city contains more bathroom-tiled buildings? This could be critical in making a final decision.

2

Republic of China’s Provisional Capital, you mean the ROC provincial capital? There was a provincial capital of the Province of Taiwan out near Taichung. A strange little town it was/is (?)

Or are you comparing Nanjing and Taipei? Can’t help you there.

HG

3

I’m nearly qualified (which is to say, not qualified) to weigh in on this, having just returned from Nanjing with a gf born in Taipei.

FOOD
Alas, the xiaoye and xiaoche culture on the mainland apparently can’t compare with that of Taipei. 30 years of blanket disapproval of capitalism has really affected the traditions of street-side vendors. Our food markets just can’t compare, although even she had to begrudgingly approve of the choudoufu we had at fuzimiao (Confucius Temple). WINNER: Taipei.

BUILDINGS
Nanjing suffered from pretty restrictive growth policies for most of the past 5 decades, so it lags most other coastal mainland cities… forget Taipei… in terms of “development”. Skyscrapers in the CBD probably number < 20… nothing like the skyline of Taipei. But the past few years have been impressive, and Nanjing retains more classy/organized than most even as it throws up residential development in surrounding farmland at an obscene rate. WINNER: Taipei.

TRAFFIC
Nanjing has very few scooters/motorcycles, a new subway system, a heavily invested public bus system, and three bridges across the Yangtze. Congestion happens only on a few select intersections for a few hours every day. From what I’ve heard, a vast improvement over Taipei. WINNER: Nanjing.

CULTURE
No confusion or debate about national “identity”, here. Structures and artifacts from the Ming, the Qing, the Taiping, the ROC, and the PRC are all embraced as valuable heritage of the Chinese nation. (The ROC/KMT flag+symbol flies over more buildings in Nanjing than any other city on the mainland, I’m reasonably sure.)

Nanjing 2005 has no strip clubs, KTV/“salons” are relatively rare (compared to other mainland cities), no major theaters… but it does have a brand spanking new “bar street” (1912 jiubajie), where young patriots can honor the founding of the ROC by getting plastered in one of numerous smokey clubs/bars where few dance and everyone plays that damn dice drinking game (most better than me).

Taipei’s either a Chinese city or a Taiwanese city or an international city depending on who/when/how you ask the question. It retains probably the greatest collections of Chinese artifacts on the planet, but there’s probably a significant % of the population that’d love to see it either trashed or shipped away. Strippers perform at funerals; prostitution used to be legal. It’s a major destination for any international cultural performance setting foot in Asia, whether we’re talking Yo Ma-ma or S.H.E. WINNER: Toss-up.

GIRLS
My observations on this are limited by the company I keep. But … it’s all about the Sichuan ladies. Something about the water. Or the peppers they ingest constantly. And just to keep this on topic… I’d also like to point out that Chongqing was the wartime capital of the ROC during the '39-'45. WINNER: Toss-up.

Overall, I’d prefer to live in Nanjing, eat in Taipei, and vacation in Sichuan.

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[quote=“cctang”]TRAFFIC
Nanjing has very few scooters/motorcycles, a new subway system, a heavily invested public bus system, and three bridges across the Yangtze. Congestion happens only on a few select intersections for a few hours every day. From what I’ve heard, a vast improvement over Taipei. WINNER: Nanjing[/quote]

There is less traffic in Nanjing but that is just because of the fact that less people can affort cars or scooters. Therefore more people are forced to take the public transportation. This gives an advantage to Nanjing.
If you compare the driving habbits than you will see the back side of this. They are just driving like crazy and even I never though that could be but they drive worse than Taiwan. That’s the problem of new toys. :wink:

But the area around the confucius temple is great, the old gate of the ming dynasty city wall is impressive and the area around the thomb of Dr. Sun Yat Sen is very very nice too.

5

Not to mention the large blue and white ROC star that’s on the inside of the tomb. When I visited a few years ago, we entered the tomb at the same time as a large group of mainlanders and a couple of Taiwanese. Some of the younger mainlanders didn’t even know it was the ROC star. The two Taiwanese, my wife and I all just looked at each other and smiled.

I think Nanjing probably has a more impressive collection of stiffs. Along with the Sun Zhongshan tomb, they’ve also got some Ming tombs to the west of town, right?

6

As I mentioned above, the “ROC star” is in more places than just zhongshanling. The ROC flag also hangs in zongtongfu (the old ROC presidential offices), as well as a collection of other old ROC buildings around town. I guess I wouldn’t be surprised if there were “some mainlanders” who didn’t recognize the ROC star, but they’re certainly in the minority.

And yes, plenty of “stiffs” in Nanjing. Ming tombs are in Nanjing… but they’re to the east, at the foot of the purple mountains. The river lies to the west/north of Nanjing. There’s also the Nanjing Massacre memorial to the West.

As far as traffic in Nanjing, scooter/motorcycles licenses are tightly regulated. The cost of a license is many times that of purchasing the motorcycle itself. As far as private cars go, they’re flourishing… as I found out when we had to circle for a nice long while looking for parking outside 1912 (on a weekday, no less). You might’ve noticed that the Chinese car market is now 2.7m vehicles/year?

Fortunately, in the past 6-9 months, Nanjing has unveiled a remarkably complicated/useful system of elevated expressways. Traffic’s by far the best I’ve seen in any mainland city… outside of Shenzhen, which doesn’t count since they got to start over from scratch with that one.

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As soon you are on this express ways and the freeways it is really convinient. Just their driving habbits in the city are a bit scary, even more scary than in Taibei.
The ming thomb on the left side of the Sun Yat Sen memorial hall is very nice too, also this alley with the stone animals. But the thing which impressed me even more was the old Ming Dynasty city wall and the big gate. Really hughe stuff.
The people I had to deal with were also very aware about the “ROC sun” and all this symbols. They even mentioned that they actually should be the capital of China (but with another government :wink: ) and they all had bad feelings as they think that Beijing and Shanghai get better treatment than they do. They are actually a bit angry that the government “pushs Nanjing always a bit down”.

8

Well, I’ve always believed it was an excellent place for the capital.

I asked one of my private students recently his feelings and of Beiping, he said, “It’s too far North and isolated; it makes more sense for the capital to be in Nanjing.” He, Zhongzheng and I all agree on that one.

However, one of my Taiwanese friends countered by reminding me that Beiping was chosen as the capital of China, because historically, the norther part of the country was more important than the South, and he informed me that Beiping has been the capital (for the most part) for the past 500 years.

Something about Beiping being so cold though…kind of unappealing :laughing:

9

Definitely, many Nanjing’ers would say exactly what you guys just described. Nanjing’s development was held back intentionally, mostly because of its status as the ROC (and former Japanese-puppet) capital.

Just wanted to point out quickly that ‘Beiping’ isn’t really the traditional name for Beijing. It was briefly named thus at the end of the Yuan, and under the ROC era… but for most of the past 1000 years, it was either known as something else, or Beijing.

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[quote=“cctang”]
FOOD
Alas, the xiaoye and xiaoche culture on the mainland apparently can’t compare with that of Taipei. 30 years of blanket disapproval of capitalism has really affected the traditions of street-side vendors. Our food markets just can’t compare, although even she had to begrudgingly approve of the choudoufu we had at fuzimiao (Confucius Temple). WINNER: Taipei.[/quote]

If you are talking about Chinese food only, that title really goes to Hong Kong in my humble opinion or my experience.

[quote=“cctang”]
GIRLS
My observations on this are limited by the company I keep. But … it’s all about the Sichuan ladies. Something about the water. Or the peppers they ingest constantly. And just to keep this on topic… I’d also like to point out that Chongqing was the wartime capital of the ROC during the '39-'45. WINNER: Toss-up.[/quote]

If you are talking about the amount of hot babes in the whole world, I would give that one to the western girls because they tends to mate for looks and youth vigor instead of those old ugly b*itch arse geezers with too much money scam from poor workers. :smiley:

11

[quote] Definitely, many Nanjing’ers would say exactly what you guys just described. Nanjing’s development was held back intentionally, mostly because of its status as the ROC (and former Japanese-puppet) capital. Definitely, many Nanjing’ers would say exactly what you guys just described. Nanjing’s development was held back intentionally, mostly because of its status as the ROC (and former Japanese-puppet) capital.
[/quote]

Hence, the need for a second Northern Expedition to correct the problem, and reinstate the capital in its rightful place. :wink:

12

Hm, so you like sweet bland crap Chinese food with no hint of chilli or flavour?

It’s weird, I hear a lot about how good the food is in HK but having lived here for two years I have to disagree. I blame the English. I mean, they’re not known for their abilities in a kitchen and hell, they dragged in the Filipinos as maids.

Reminds me of my local pub. The bar is staffed by Scotsmen and the food cooked by Filipinos overseen by a Scottish boss. That’s a recipe for complete failure. Paranoid, unfriendly, brooding barmen and crap food. I never go there.

The Philippines is a true culinary oddity. Surrounded by great food and with the ability to grow almost anything, the Flips somehow managed to come up with the blandest grub in the region. I guess that should be pinned on the yanks and not the Spanish.

The only saving grace for HK is the Indians. It’s really the one thing the English did right was to bring them in here.

Still, give me one Taiwan night market over the whole of HK any day. Can I trade?

HG

13

Agree to a certain extent, but I do like dimsum and the mercury infused seafood here. :wink:

One word: Macau. From its colonial experience, HK got the rule of law. From its colonial experience, Macau sure didn’t get the rule of law, but they got some pretty good fusion cuisine.

Has anybody ever seen a Filipino restaurant? Aside from the little stalls that serve HK maids on their days off, I’ve never seen a Filipino restaurant anywhere in the world. That’s telling.

Amen, brother.

I have to disagree with you here. I don’t see what the big deal is about the rubbish on offer in Taiwan night markets. Sure, it’s cheap, but I’ve never had anything worth getting excited about.

14

Umm, I think I was hankering for fried chcken (xiansu ji). Seafood, Sichuan and cheap but good Japanese is where Taiwan fires for me.

Jollibee is a Filipino eatery. :laughing:

Macau!!! Yes! The city lives to mock the English for just how badly they fucked up the local grub.

Dimsum I can do, but I’m not a big fan of mystery glutinous meat. I am ashamed to admit, I’ve started getting a cup of fishballs for the ferry home at night. :blush:

Hey Jive, we’ll have to organise a Forumosa HK (the ROC in China) happy hour sometime. What say you?

HG

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[quote]The only saving grace for HK is the Indians. It’s really the one thing the English did right was to bring them in here.
[/quote]

I personally think the indian food in singapore is way better (and cheaper) than the indian in HK. As for chinese food, other than cantonese and maybe ChaoZhou, its definetly better in Taiwan than HK, especially in variety. And if you compare these cheap dives in taipei that can fill you up for less than NT100 with the ChaCanTings (tea canteens) in HK, taiwan wins hands down. However, i think western food in HK is of higher standard than taiwan.

16

For the most part agree, especially on the diversity and relative cheapness of Chinese. Again, especially comparing the “dai po dong” or greasy chopsticks of HK and the slap up buffets or whatever in Taiwan.

Also on the Indian. Lots of the Indian joints here will ask you if you want spicey when you order . . what does that mean? It means that they’re frying up the meat and adding a stock-standard masala with chilli. That’s crap! But there are some good places, not as plentiful or cheap as Singapore, but there are some.

As for western food . . you not been to Alleycat’s? Seriously, Alley’s pizzzas are far ahead of anything I’ve had here in HK. I gotta admit, aside from the new Ms Huang’s home cooked Thai, I do tend to eat poorly here.

HG

17

I’m a little bit out of my depth here, having never visited Taipei (and probably can’t unless I dress myself up as a panda with green fur)… and not having been in HK since the handover back in '97.

But let me just throw out my own personal “I’m so disappointed” food anecdote. There’s no good dim sum on the mainland outside of Guangzhou. I was shocked. What passed for good dim sum in Beijing, Nanjing, and Shanghai is just atrocious by any standard. I’m especially surprised by Beijing, since it’s supposedly the “melting pot” for all local Chinese cultures + foods.

However, let me also say that Beijing has truly excellent Korean food; a very large Korean-Chinese (not to mention ex-pat Korean) population in Beijing assures that. And at the end of the day, nothing comes close to touching the gourmet perfection of huaiyang/Shanghainese cuisine.

18

A friend assures me there’s a funky North Kprean government eatery in Beijing. I’ve never been but he says it’s good.

HG

19

I salute you sir!!! :notworthy:

Nightmarket food is by and large, utter slop. Greasy, oily, fatty, disgusting fried crap. And what’s not fried is remarkable in its unappealing qualities: pig’s blood rice, chicken heart, chicken feet, chicken sphincter (although I think that one’s fried) and so on.

I can safely say that most vendor’s food in Taipei sucks. And that’s because I’ve tried alot of it, at different night markets and elsewhere. “Steaming cauldron” eateries aren’t much better.

I guess it depends on the individual, but i like a clean environment in which to eat. It doesn’t have to be fancy, but it needs to be clean. I eat quite a bit in the food courts in the various department stores, where you can get a huge amount of Chinese (or Korean or Japanese curry or sometimes other Asian )food for NT150, and it tends to be quite a bit better than what’s served at a typical cauldron joint.

20

Etheorial, you were going so well till you said that!!! :laughing:

But c’mon, fried chicken, not the bits, sometimes in chilli and garlic?

HG