If the carb were flooding, Loretta would have smelled gas. Did you smell gas, Loretta, at any point?
Alternatively, the next time the moto fails, try to flood the carb to see if you can smell gas. If not, fuel is not getting through the carb. I once had a float bowl inlet valve gum up from old gas (forgot to put stabilizer in the gas before storage), and because I couldn’t smell gas when I whacked the throttle several times, I knew I had a stuck inlet valve, clogged jet, or the ilk.
Not a sign of flooding, the bike would rev uncontrollably…[/quote]In my experience, a flooded carb causes the bike to stall, not rev. For sure. It will happen as you slow down near idle RPM. The bike first chokes without enough air, and then it stalls altogether.
First thing to do is check the spark, anyways. If Loretta can do that, we’ll all be in a much better position to guess what’s wrong with the bike.
marboulette
Not a sign of flooding, the bike would rev uncontrollably…[/quote]In my experience, a flooded carb causes the bike to stall, not rev. For sure. It will happen as you slow down near idle RPM. The bike first chokes without enough air, and then it stalls altogether.
First thing to do is check the spark, anyways. If Loretta can do that, we’ll all be in a much better position to guess what’s wrong with the bike.
marboulette[/quote]
After the throttle got stuck open? or after the float stuck and caused fuel to pour out the overflow pipe?
Marb all i’m trying to say is that the set of failures you describe are mechanical failures that are least likeley for a new bike and are failures that are not consistent with reports regarding reported failures on the model.
Also I feel the described circumstances do not match flooding.
All we have to go on is the info provided which really isn’t enough we are just speculating and I’m basing my speculation on experiences myself and others have had with the bike and the dealers handling of the bike.
Who knows you may be right but i highly doubt it 
Checking the spark will be difficult to draw an absolute conclusion as the problem is entirely intermittent maybe ur lucky maybe you’re not.
If the throttle is stuck open, then of course, the bike will rev high. But if the float is stuck, fuel fills up the bowl and too much fuel is going in without enough air at low rev. So the bike stalls. If the float remains stuck, eventually it starts poring out of the overflow.
A stuck throttle increases fuel being sucked in, but it also increases the amount of air that goes in, so it’s just like when you rev the bike. But if you don’t rev the bike (idle speed or slowing down to idle speed) while the float is stuck, the bike is getting enough gas to rev higher, but not nearly enough air for proper ignition and it craps out.
This said, you might not necessarily have fuel poring out of the overflow if the float is only sticking mildly. It’s just enough to fill the bowl and disturb the air/fuel ratio, but once you have enough fuel in the bowl, the float finally comes unstuck to actually float like it should and you’re left with a full cup that is not yet overflowing, but full enough to flood the bike.
[quote]Checking the spark will be difficult to draw an absolute conclusion as the problem is entirely intermittent maybe your lucky maybe you’re not.[/quote]The idea is to check the spark when the bike won’t start. Pull it out, test the spark, see the spark, put it back in and if it still doesn’t start, you just ruled out any possibility of it being an electrical problem. It’s the first thing that needs to be done. Once you rule out electrical failures, then you can look at air and fuel related faults.
[quote]Also I feel the described circumstances do not match flooding.[/quote]I actually think the symptoms are that of a mildly sticking float. It might work for a day or three, and then it sticks again. Fuel goes up in the bowl and the float gets unstuck but by then it’s too late, you’re flooded.
[quote]Who knows you may be right but i highly doubt it[/quote] I guess it will be interesting to find out what fixes the problem.
All of this is irrelevant to Loretta. Loretta has a new bike. The bike doesn’t work. The people Loretta bought it from are twats. Loretta wants a new bike to work like a new bike. Loretta cares not what the problem is.
[quote=“marboulette”]If the throttle is stuck open, then of course, the bike will rev high. But if the float is stuck, fuel fills up the bowl and too much fuel is going in without enough air at low rev. So the bike stalls. If the float remains stuck, eventually it starts poring out of the overflow.
A stuck throttle increases fuel being sucked in, but it also increases the amount of air that goes in, so it’s just like when you rev the bike. But if you don’t rev the bike (idle speed or slowing down to idle speed) while the float is stuck, the bike is getting enough gas to rev higher, but not nearly enough air for proper ignition and it craps out.
This said, you might not necessarily have fuel poring out of the overflow if the float is only sticking mildly. It’s just enough to fill the bowl and disturb the air/fuel ratio, but once you have enough fuel in the bowl, the float finally comes unstuck to actually float like it should and you’re left with a full cup that is not yet overflowing, but full enough to flood the bike.
[quote]Checking the spark will be difficult to draw an absolute conclusion as the problem is entirely intermittent maybe your lucky maybe you’re not.[/quote]The idea is to check the spark when the bike won’t start. Pull it out, test the spark, see the spark, put it back in and if it still doesn’t start, you just ruled out any possibility of it being an electrical problem. It’s the first thing that needs to be done. Once you rule out electrical failures, then you can look at air and fuel related faults.
[quote]Also I feel the described circumstances do not match flooding.[/quote]I actually think the symptoms are that of a mildly sticking float. It might work for a day or three, and then it sticks again. Fuel goes up in the bowl and the float gets unstuck but by then it’s too late, you’re flooded.
Sorry I disagree with your every point but couldn’t care to argue this any longer there is just no profit in it 
i don’t think the mixture is terribly concerned by the level of fuel in the float bowl. most simpler carbs are fairly unaffected by float level changes, other than running dry or overflowing from the bowl. the fuel gets sucked up through the jet by the cylinder and intake vacuum, that’s it, and the fuel is not pushed in by pressure from the bowl side. the jet is the main determinant of the mixture. now, if the idle jet were to get clogged (far more likely than getting the blockage in the main jet, as it’s much smaller) then you would get the problems described from fuel starvation, not mixture error. things that can clog an idle jet are rust or metal particles, pieces of paint, wisps of cloth from a cleaning rag or a Q-tip, water drops, even oil drops (though these quickly dissolve away). in all cases, disassembling the fuel line and the bowls and blowing dry with compressed air works well, or using the appropriate solvent. use alcohol to remove water drops or brake fluid (don’t ask), and ether carburettor start fluid to remove gum deposits (which should NOT be present in your carb, but may appear after many years). flush away, then rinse with petrol before you reassemble. another likely culprit is the tank tap inlets, which should have a fine screen on them (an intial fuel filter). also, check that the pipe outlet itself is not obscured from swarf or flashing from a poorly tapped fuel tap hole in the tank body itself.
of course, it is easier tog et them to give you a bike that does not do those things to begin with. but then i’ve never had the luxury of a new bike., or any vehicle for that matter.
[quote]I don’t think the mixture is terribly concerned by the level of fuel in the float bowl.[/quote]That is disappointing coming from our very own scientist. Are you saying that you can ride a bike with no problems meanwhile the float is stuck and the bowl is full? I have had this happen on a GS650. The float in only one out of 4 carbs got stuck and the bike stalled as soon as I came to a red light. It would not restart either. Imagine what it would be like if all four carbs were crapping out. On a CPI, there’s only one carb. If the one and only float sticks, you’re not going anywhere, period.
marboulette
um, minor positions of a mm or two in the float height do not affect the flow through the main jet much at all. more major differences in fuel height will, yes, affect the pressure difference pushing fuel through the idle passgeway and through the jet, but there it is still dominated by the idle mixture settings and thus the diameter of the pilot jet or the idle jet or whatever you want to call it. but the principle of all carburettors is that they are most sensitive to the difference in pressure between the inside of the bowl and the carb throat, and that is how they deliver the fuel. the metering is done mostly by jet size (and if there is crap in the lines or in the jet, then you have difficulties). the actual level does not really matter terribly much, unless it’s WAY too high (in which case you may get overflowing of fuel out the standpipe of the bowl, or flooding, or both, or unless it’s way too LOW, in which case you get fuel starvation and lean running, intermittently, especially under load and full throttle. the only point of the bowl float is to stop the fuel from running in when the bowl is vaguely three quarters full.
the fuel level in your carbs IS NOT stable when you are riding, in case you need more evidence of this.
I also had a GS650G at one point. it was a heavy piece of crap and didn’t steer well, but was fairly comfortable and had the advantage of not chewing chains. i also seem to remember carb problems on that beast, magnified by having four of them. almost always traceable to diaphragm leaks or spring stickiness in the CV system.
I removed the posts that looked as if they were going to turn into a flame war. If anyone has any more to say on the carburetor stuff then go ahead and post it here, but if there’s anything that even smells vaguely like a personal dig I’ll remove it and probably lock the thread. I don’t have much time these days and can’t do the detailed editing I used to do.
Not a sign of flooding, the bike would rev uncontrollably…[/quote]The bike would stall, dude. It wouldn’t rev at all even if your life depended on it. You’re thinking about a stuck throttle cable or something.
marboulette
PS. Mods run a tight ship, I see. It’s quite OK. If I sounded offensive, it’s just a bad choice of language on my part and things got a bit lost in interpretation. My fault and I apologize, Dogma and all.
Edit: Crap, I just saw the other thread now. I think I posted in the wrong thread about this carb stuff. 
[quote=“marboulette”]Edit: Crap, I just saw the other thread now. I think I posted in the wrong thread about this carb stuff. [/quote]No worries. You must have been writing while I was splitting the thread. I’ve brought the post over here now.
[quote=“urodacus”]um, minor positions of a mm or two in the float height do not affect the flow through the main jet much at all.[/quote]That’s correct. You run into problems when gravity from the gas tank fills the bowl. From there, it keeps being fed into the carb via the main jet with just gravity all the while the carb is sucking on it which accelerates the flow. Within no time, ignition fails because the carb can’t provide enough air for all that fuel. The bike dies out like a candle in a sealed container.
[quote]more major differences in fuel height will, yes, affect the pressure difference pushing fuel through the idle passgeway and through the jet, but there it is still dominated by the idle mixture settings and thus the diameter of the pilot jet or the idle jet or whatever you want to call it.[/quote] That’s correct. The diameter of the jet is directly dictating how much fuel gets through under normal circumstances when the vacuum is functioning without interferences. The thing is, the vacuum sucks far less gas into the throat of the carb than a gravity feed from the gas tank does. And that’s what happens when the bowl is full. The gas has to go somewhere, and gravity pushes it right through the main jet and it smothers the spark right out.
[quote] but the principle of all carburettors is that they are most sensitive to the difference in pressure between the inside of the bowl and the carb throat, and that is how they deliver the fuel.[/quote]And that is also true. But when the throat is filling up with fuel and delivering it right to the combustion chamber, it’s just too much fuel altogether. The bike is not designed to operate in such conditions. [quote] (and if there is crap in the lines or in the jet, then you have difficulties). the actual level does not really matter terribly much, unless it’s WAY too high (in which case you may get overflowing of fuel out the standpipe of the bowl, or flooding, or both,[/quote]Also true. And that plays against my personal tentative diagnosis. Loretta did not report smelling or seeing gas.
[quote] or unless it’s way too LOW, in which case you get fuel starvation and lean running, intermittently, especially under load and full throttle.[/quote]Under load and full throttle being the key words because that isn’t Loretta’s problem, either. [quote]the only point of the bowl float is to stop the fuel from running in when the bowl is vaguely three quarters full.[/quote]Yes, and that point is somewhat defeated when the float sticks, the bowl fills up and floods the carb’s throat.
[quote]the fuel level in your carbs IS NOT stable when you are riding, in case you need more evidence of this. [/quote]It’s not stable, but it’s not flooding the carb’s throat, either. And that’s my point.
[quote]I also had a GS650G at one point. it was a heavy piece of crap and didn’t steer well, but was fairly comfortable and had the advantage of not chewing chains.[/quote]Mine had a drive shaft-no chain. Also heavy and the handling was also crap. I think it was a 1981 SUZUKI GS650ES. We called her Suzie, and the bitch had only 5 gears. To make up for it, it had a green display to show you what gear you were in placed between the odometer and the RPM gauges.
[quote]i also seem to remember carb problems on that beast, magnified by having four of them. almost always traceable to diaphragm leaks or spring stickiness in the CV system.[/quote]Mine ran very well, but it did have a very, very, very slight delay when slowing down and accelerating again. I had the carbs looked at and calibrated, but that didn’t help. I figured it was the diaphragms leaking. It was an older bike that had been stored for quite some time. I rode it like that and I ended up trading it for a Honda Civic 4x4 station wagon a few years down the line. Did me well.
marboulette
Zook’s fuel systems, esp. its EFI, have come a long way. I’d say that currently they are the best. The switch-selectable ECU maps on the current Busa and liter Gixxer are proof of that. If Zook would just put EFI on the DRZ.
If I recall you posited stuck needle or floats for the reason of flooding. My first response dealt with that in that if the needle was stuck the bike should continue revving and should not stall since that will be the same as the throttle being stuck open.
Next stuck floats, even if the float is stuck I cannot accept that a flooded bike will not be able to start or run particularly one with an electric starter .
When I was 12 I had a bike that had stuffed floats, if you poured fuel in and the tap was on the fuel would just end up on the ground having passed straight through the carb, granted it was a bastard to kick start but easy to push start and it ran very very well.
If you want to come to the Hsinchu Motox track one Sunday I can show you several bikes that flood as soon as the tap is turned on, they start up and ride no problem. Kick starts are used to start these bikes and they start first or second kick , the SM has an electric start so clearing out the overflow will be no sweat.
It was 3 weeks ago that I was riding one, my friends 250, i would stop the bike and forget to turn off the tap then i would notice fuel pouring out of the overflow pipe so I turn off the tap while i wait then turn on and the fuel comes pouring out again, kick it 2x and the bike starts no problem and rides no problem.
We can talk theory all day long, but if you want to see reality with your own eyes I would be happy to show you.
Dogma, twasn’t I that advanced flooding. Just the opposite. My theory is fuel starvation. To rebut the theory of flooding, I opined that if the bike were flooding the rider should smell gas. The OP never responded re: smell of gas or no smell of gas.
Wasn’t talking to you bro 
[quote=“Dogma”]If I recall you posited stuck needle or floats for the reason of flooding. My first response dealt with that in that if the needle was stuck the bike should continue revving and should not stall since that will be the same as the throttle being stuck open.
[/quote]
if the needle is stuck, the bike would only keep revving if the slide was also up high, allowing a lot of air to get into the cylinder. the absolute determinant of revs is the airflow: stick your hand over the air intake and watch the revs drop off. unless it’s been mis-installed, the needle is unlikely to come apart from the bottom of the slide!
this does happen occasionally on bikes with a really really worn slide, cranked on to full throttle, when the needle can come all the way out of the jet and settle against the edge of the jet tip, unable to fall back in, and thus keeping the slide jammed full open. that’s definitely time to reach for the kill switch.
[quote=“Dogma”]If I recall you posited stuck needle or floats for the reason of flooding. My first response dealt with that in that if the needle was stuck the bike should continue revving and should not stall since that will be the same as the throttle being stuck open.[/quote]There are two needles in most carbs. One is attached to the float, the other one is attached to the throttle mechanism. Some miscommunication, here, I guess.
[quote]even if the float is stuck I cannot accept that a flooded bike will not be able to start or run particularly one with an electric starter .[/quote]Well, just remember that floods don’t go very well with campfires. 
marboulette