Carb stuff split from Loretta's bike problem thread

[quote=“marboulette”]Well, just remember that floods don’t go very well with campfires. :smiley:

marboulette[/quote]

Agreed :slight_smile:

i guess i had forgotten about that one attached to the float! i guess i can only defend myself by saying that it’s not really a needle in many carbs, but a pointed post, quite short and fat and heavy in Dellorto carbs, for example. still, if it were stuck open it sure would make the carb overflow, but not necessarily have much to do with the mixture.

Loretta’s bike was diagnosed with a carb/filter problem: ie, water and/or other debris in tank leading to intermittent fuel blockage.

and yes, floods and campfires don’t go well together, but Boy can you sure start a good fire with a cup of petrol! (stand back when lighting)

[quote=“urodacus”]i guess I had forgotten about that one attached to the float! i guess i can only defend myself by saying that it’s not really a needle in many carbs, but a pointed post, quite short and fat and heavy in Dellorto carbs, for example. still, if it were stuck open it sure would make the carb overflow, but not necessarily have much to do with the mixture.[/quote]But doesn’t it make sense to say that when the bowl is full, quite a bit of fuel will end up gravitating through the main jet? The result is increased fuel in the carb’s throat, and without more air, the mixture becomes very lean.

[quote]Loretta’s bike was diagnosed with a carb/filter problem: ie, water and/or other debris in tank leading to intermittent fuel blockage.[/quote]I read Loretta’s post, and I was a bit ticked that he did not find out exactly what was wrong with the bike. “carb/filter. Whatever.” is all I read. Did I miss something Loretta wrote? It’s very unclear and no mention of blockage, water or debris per se. Still a dark issue as far as I can tell. If it was my bike, I would want to know EXACTLY what was wrong, but that’s just me. Loretta is just happy to have his toy back in good condition and that’s understandable. In any case, I think it’s fair to say that my tentative diagnosis was probably wrong. I have no problem admitting that. But, BUT… You farmers will not convince me that a bike can run well with stuck floats. No! No! No! I will not agree to that. :no-no:

[quote]and yes, floods and campfires don’t go well together, but Boy can you sure start a good fire with a cup of petrol! (stand back when lighting)[/quote] :laughing: True to that. I used to work as a lumberjack for a couple years building a golf course. We used diesel to burn most of what we cut down. The guy I worked with used windshield washer containers to carry his gas for the chainsaw and to carry diesel. And since the gas was mixed with oil, it was roughly the same color as the diesel. Sometimes we covered a pile to burn with gas, and we light it by lighting a stick and throwing it on the pile from a safe distance. BOOM! Well, this guy always gave us shit for doing that, he was older and he was the boss. The one time he confused the gas and the diesel container. Hehe… He soaked it real good and he bent over to light it up with a cigarette lighter. BOOM! Let me tell you, that’s the fastest way ever to get a hair cut. :laughing:
He only suffered minor burns and he lost a lot of hair.

OK, we are going to settle this once and for all and yous all going to have to say something REALLY nice. :wink:

Here’s some reading from good sources for you, farmers. [quote]Why is the float bowl adjustment is necessary? I’ll start by addressing the common misconception, that fuel flow in a carburetor is regulated strictly by the size of the carburetor jets (or the jet orifices to be precise). In fact, it is the jets size AND pressure (or suction) that regulates fuel flow through the jets at any given time. Take an air hose for example. Turn the regulator on a small amount and the air flows at a slow rate. Turn it on more and the air flows at a faster rate. In both instances the diameter of the garden hose did not change.

What does this have to do with your float level? Marc Salisberg at Factory Pro Tuning puts this in these simple terms : “picture a person sucking on a straw in a can of soda. Now picture another person sucking on a straw in the same can of soda but with a straw as high as a two story building. The person sucking on the long straw will require much more suction to get the soda up to his mouth.” Now to clarify, the key here is the distance to the level of the soda in the can. Now picture the same scenario but instead with the carburetor jets instead of the straws. It is easy to see that the fuel flow rate can be greatly controlled with the adjustment of your float bowl thereby the level of fuel in the fuel reserve (float bowl). The higher the float level the more fuel flow at a given suction. The lower the float level the less fuel flows at that same suction. Link. [/quote]
In other words, urodacus, the level of fuel in the bowl has a direct impact on the mixture. The higher the fuel level is, the more gas goes in, and the leaner the mixture will be. A lower fuel level in the bowl makes for a richer mixture. The throttle doesn’t regulate how much fuel gets through, it regulates the vacuum which in terms sucks fuel from the bowl. The lower the level of fuel is, the more suction/air flow you need to suck the same amount of gas.

And this one is for both you, and Mike: [quote]The level of fuel maintained in the float bowl can usually be adjusted, whether by a setscrew or by something crude such as bending the arm to which the float is connected. This is usually a critical adjustment… … the float will fail to float, fuel level will be too high, and the engine will not run well unless the float is replaced… …fails to shut off the fuel completely; again, this will cause excessive fuel flow and poor engine operation… Link. (wiki)[/quote]

So much for bikes running well with “stuffed floats.”

To conclude,

No, bikes do not run well with floats that are not set or working properly, and yes, it’s because it directly affects the mixture. Past a certain point, you have flooding and fuel is pouring into the crank itself. At that point, the engine will be very difficult to start.

marboulette

PS: The farmer reference is a friendly joke, BTW. Not to be taken offensively at all. And of course, no offense to any farmers out there, either. :laughing:

marboulette

Never said they run properly said they run, even said they run well, well enough to win races even.

I repeat my invitation to come see the race bikes that don’t run “properly”

What city do you live in? If there is an event in your city I will PM you the location so you can go to see these bikes race in competition, one of them gets consistent top 3 positions.

But no they don’t run “properly” they idle raggedly if they are hot and don’t idle at all if they are cold.

But now properly starts to sound like perfectly to factory spec.

I don’t think anyone in this thread has said they will run perfectly.

[quote=“Dogma”]So your argument has switched to “properly” now huh?
[/quote]Why would you think that? Problems with carb’s floats are not that cut and dry. You can go from having mild performance problems to a complete stall when the whole thing gets flooded. With a bike pouring out of the overflow as you have described, there’s no way that the bike would run well as you have also described. A flooded bike pissing out the overflow may or may not start, but if it does start, it will crap out as soon as you try to idle it. No questions there, IMOHO, and experience.

BTW, I live in Kaohsiung, Dogma. I won’t make it to the track. To be honest, I find what you say to be very hard to believe, but it’s just an online discussion after all. Are there any other posters who go to the track and who can confirm that guys ride bikes with gas pouring out of the overflow as if it’s business as usual? If so, post your two cents…

Your buddy should have his bike fixed before it craps out completely. Also, it creates too much carbon deposits on the piston and plug. It’s not a good idea to ride a bike in this condition.

marboulette

[quote=“Dogma”]Never said they run properly said they run, even said they run well, well enough to win races even.

I repeat my invitation to come see the race bikes that don’t run “properly”

What city do you live in? If there is an event in your city I will PM you the location so you can go to see these bikes race in competition, one of them gets consistent top 3 positions.

But no they don’t run “properly” they idle raggedly if they are hot and don’t idle at all if they are cold.

But now properly starts to sound like perfectly to factory spec.

I don’t think anyone in this thread has said they will run perfectly.[/quote]

Dude, you make it sound like guys win races over and over with bikes that have gas pouring out of the overflow at idle and that do not run properly. You do realize what that sounds like, yes? Besides, did you not mention having a bike with stuffed floats that ran VERY WELL?

The bottom line is that when gas is pouring (not just dripping) out of the overflow, you have a bike that is flooding. What idiots would race bikes like that over and over again without fixing the floats?

marboulette

Please don’t make rude personal remarks. Do you know how it makes you sound when you make these kind of remarks against paid professional racers? These are not only championship racers with corporate sponsors but also do all their own maintenance as well as having a store that trades in and repairs enduro and motox bikes with engineers who are paid test riders and are certified Yamaha mechanics , how about you?

Just come and see and you will understand. You can ask him yourself why he doesn’t repair the flooding maybe he is still waiting for a part from Japan but in the meantime its still good enough to race. My bikes’ flooding has been repaired by cleaning the carb and the difference is not noticeable it was a monster before and it is still a monster.

My mate is sponsored by Walmart and Microsoft, he rides a bike which regularly has fuel pissing out of the overflow when it’s stopped. Does it run? Well enough to see him to thirteen world championships and counting…

[quote=“marboulette”][quote=“urodacus”]i guess I had forgotten about that one attached to the float! i guess i can only defend myself by saying that it’s not really a needle in many carbs, but a pointed post, quite short and fat and heavy in Dellorto carbs, for example. still, if it were stuck open it sure would make the carb overflow, but not necessarily have much to do with the mixture.[/quote][/quote]But doesn’t it make sense to say that when the bowl is full, quite a bit of fuel will end up gravitating through the main jet? The result is increased fuel in the carb’s throat, and without more air, the mixture becomes very lean.

No, it doesn’t make sense, because, if that IS what happens, then the mixture becomes very RICH. You’re the wrong way round here and you said it again elsewhere.

RICH = high fuel/air ratio, LEAN = low fuel/air ratio.

Your other semantic debates are a bit too finely sliced and personal to interfere with, but I just felt like joining in. :smiley:

Just a correction for now before someone points it out. (edit: edl. posted when I was typing, and he pointed it out before I submitted this post) Regarding the terms rich or lean mixture. The terms usually refer to the amount of gas and not the amount of air. I always refer to the amount of air when using terms like lean or rich for some reason, but it’s the opposite. I think it’s because when I adjust a carb, I usually adjust the air screw to set the mixture, and since I am fiddling with the air intake, I always think too much air is rich, and not enough is lean. It’s just a terminology mix up. Either I choose the term lean to talk about gas or air is irrelevant. Just thought I’d clarify. The mixture is composed of too much gas and not enough air in the instance of flooding or high levels of fuel in the float bowl, and either I refer to that condition as lean, rich, or whatever else doesn’t change my argument and the dynamics at play.

But yeah, you’re right, Ed. :slight_smile:

Marboulette

[quote=“jaame”]My mate is sponsored by Walmart and Microsoft, he rides a bike which regularly has fuel pissing out of the overflow when it’s stopped. Does it run? Well enough to see him to thirteen world championships and counting…[/quote]I think we need to clarify something else, here.

Racing bikes are often tuned to accommodate a huge demand for fuel and air. They are tuned to have maximum power at the top end. It is common for race bikes to overflow a bit when slowing to idle speed suddenly. Too much fuel pouring in and a sudden decrease in fuel demand results in a temporary overflow.

But fuel pissing out when the bike is stopped… I’m sorry but I have to call that BS. To be fair, I suppose it’s possible that some bikes would be set up so that the float bowl is always filling right up to meet a high air intake with enough fuel when racing at high rev. So you would have to shut the gas valve off on the gas tank when the bike is stopped, or else you’d end up wit fuel filling the whole crank on the freeking bike. Definitely BS.

Get a bigger carb that can meet high fuel and air demand fer Christ sakes. That’s why racing bikes are set up with bigger carbs. And no, they don’t piss all over the ground when you turn them off because the bowl is big enough to supply a racing bike without pissing all over the place.

This said, the point to clarify is that racing bikes are always set to have high air and fuel distribution. Not the case with Loretta’s bike. If the fuel level in the bowl raises too high because of a sticking float/carb/filter problem(debris on the seat of the float needle, etc), unless you increase the air intake, the bike may very well just crap out.

Perhaps the racing bike argument could potentially be relevant (but still BS) if Loretta’s bike was set to race, but I’m pretty sure his bike is a stock version.

marboulette

[quote=“marboulette”]Just a correction for now before someone points it out. (edit: edl. posted when I was typing, and he pointed it out before I submitted this post)
Marboulette[/quote]

30min time difference, that doesn’t look good dude.

I’m more interested in your submission to the facts as presented in the way you requested.

[quote=“marboulette”]Racing bikes are often tuned to accommodate a huge demand for fuel and air. They are tuned to have maximum power at the top end.[/quote]I

BS 4 stroke motox bike produce all their power at low end. As does the CPI SM

[quote=“marboulette”] It is common for race bikes to overflow a bit when slowing to idle speed suddenly. Too much fuel pouring in and a sudden decrease in fuel demand results in a temporary overflow. [/quote]I

BS this is not relevant even if it is true and the situation happens as you describe which it doesn’t in the described cases.

BS to your BS, simply calling BS makes you guilty of your own accusations of admitting an unsupported argument even worse that the fact has been independently confirmed and you refuse to step up to see the fact that can be shown to you visually.

More incorrect speculation with the shouting of BS thrown in for good measure, none of the examples I mentioned are set up to overflow. I did state that repairing cleaning my carb stopped the overflow but the benefit gained from it was not value for money since the performance on track did not change.

Huh? you are calling your own BS about race bikes overflowing now?

It may stall on idle but it WILL start again and when the throttle is open the bike WILL continue moving when the throttle is opened. I like that you are now conceding “may” instead of posting certainties.

Shout BS from your armchair and don’t bother to accept the reality…nice

[quote=“marboulette”] if Loretta’s bike was set to race, but I’m pretty sure his bike is a stock version.

marboulette[/quote]

Irrelevant since the bike would still run particularly if (as you so scientifically suggested) it is only flooding “a little bit” not enough to overflow…

Im sorry your whole argument is destroyed to the point that you are splitting hairs and picking irrelevant battles.

The war is lost dude, get over it!

Your continued finely sliced and personalised semantic debates only serve to further damage your credibility.

I take no joy in rubbing peoples faces in it but you insisted when you couldn’t just accept this:

If you still want to disagree then lets agree to disagree shall we?

[quote=“Dogma”][quote=“marboulette”]
Dude, you make it sound like guys win races over and over with bikes that have gas pouring out of the overflow at idle and that do not run properly.You do realize what that sounds like, yes? Besides, did you not mention having a bike with stuffed floats that ran VERY WELL? [/quote]

What is your point?[/quote]The point is that what you posted is basically suggesting that your buddies are racing bikes with overflows pissing all over the place when the bike is stopped (or idling, it doesn’t matter). You made it sound like it was business as usual and that these bikes even win races. There was no mention of anything being broken or possibly waiting for parts from Japan. That’s why I asked you if you realize what that sounds like. Your reply to that was:

[quote]You can ask him yourself why he doesn’t repair the flooding maybe he is still waiting for a part from Japan but in the meantime its still good enough to race.[/quote] In other words, now you’re saying that it is broken, that it needs to be repaired. And that was my point. I was telling you that the bike is broken, and if you talk about such a bike as if it’s running just fine and winning races, then you’re wrong. It’s broken as in BROKEN.

[quote]The key is, will it run? The answer is YES IT WILL![/quote]No it won’t. Remember that you brought up that argument to say that Loretta’s bike should still run when flooded? The point is that Loretta’s bike isn’t tuned to compensate for significant fuel increase the way racing bikes are. The bike will crap out at low rev and it will not restart easily if it’s flooded. That’s if it starts at all.

[quote][quote=“marboulette”]The bottom line is that when gas is pouring (not just dripping) out of the overflow, you have a bike that is flooding. What idiots would race bikes like that over and over again without fixing the floats?
[/quote]

Please don’t make rude personal remarks. Do you know how it makes you sound when you make these kind of remarks against paid professional racers? [/quote]
Well, I think it makes me sound like I think they are idiots if they ride broken bikes while thinking it’s business as usual? But since you amended your words when you told me that I should ask him why he doesn’t get his bike repaired, I guess we agree that his bike is indeed broken.

[quote]These are not only championship racers with corporate sponsors but also do all their own maintenance as well as having a store that trades in and repairs enduro and motox bikes with engineers who are paid test riders and are certified Yamaha mechanics , how about you?[/quote]Again, had you specified that the bike is awaiting repairs instead of praising the bikes when they are indeed broken, I would not have called them idiots. Just guys who are aware that the bikes need repair. And if the are as qualified as you say they are, then they’d know that a bike pissing fuel on the ground when stopped is not in good working order. Oh, but they still RUN is your point, isn’t it? “Good enough to race” to use your own words.

Problem with that is even I could manage to get a bike that needs carb repairs to run, so no questions there that these guys can do the same. But that’s expecting a bit much from Loretta when stalled on the side of the road with his new stock CPI. Comparing BROKEN race bikes with a BROKEN stock model is ridiculous, especially since the racing bikes have technicians making sure the bikes can run even if the floats are stuffed and need repair/adjustments. Stock models crap out and do not start when they are flooded, Dogma. Not with a stock air filter and only 1 and a half turns or so on the mixture adjustment screw, and certainly not once the crank is taking in fuel and the plug is soaked.

[quote]30min time difference, that doesn’t look good dude.[/quote]What part of “too much gas, not enough air” do you not understand?

Anyways, here’s some more reading for you:

-Needless to say, FUEL LEVEL IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT!!!

-The float level is a critical adjustment because it affects the both fuel and air mixture all the way through the engine’s operating range.

The following is a great PDF article. Serves me very well when arguing with urodacus that the level of fuel in the bowl affects the mixture.

-The level in the float chamber is therefore a calibration element of the carb since the metered fuel delivery changes with float levels and therefore affects the mixture ratio.

marboulette

[quote=“marboulette”][quote=“Dogma”][quote=“marboulette”]
Dude, you make it sound like guys win races over and over with bikes that have gas pouring out of the overflow at idle and that do not run properly.You do realize what that sounds like, yes? Besides, did you not mention having a bike with stuffed floats that ran VERY WELL? [/quote]

What is your point?[/quote]The point is that what you posted is basically suggesting that your buddies are racing bikes with overflows pissing all over the place when the bike is stopped (or idling, it doesn’t matter). You made it sound like it was business as usual and that these bikes even win races. There was no mention of anything being broken or possibly waiting for parts from Japan. That’s why I asked you if you realize what that sounds like. Your reply to that was:

[quote]You can ask him yourself why he doesn’t repair the flooding maybe he is still waiting for a part from Japan but in the meantime its still good enough to race.[/quote] In other words, now you’re saying that it is broken, that it needs to be repaired. And that was my point. I was telling you that the bike is broken, and if you talk about such a bike as if it’s running just fine and winning races, then you’re wrong. It’s broken as in BROKEN.

[quote]The key is, will it run? The answer is YES IT WILL![/quote]No it won’t. Remember that you brought up that argument to say that Loretta’s bike should still run when flooded? The point is that Loretta’s bike isn’t tuned to compensate for significant fuel increase the way racing bikes are. The bike will crap out at low rev and it will not restart easily if it’s flooded. That’s if it starts at all.

[quote][quote=“marboulette”]The bottom line is that when gas is pouring (not just dripping) out of the overflow, you have a bike that is flooding. What idiots would race bikes like that over and over again without fixing the floats?
[/quote]

Please don’t make rude personal remarks. Do you know how it makes you sound when you make these kind of remarks against paid professional racers? [/quote]
Well, I think it makes me sound like I think they are idiots if they ride broken bikes while thinking it’s business as usual? But since you amended your words when you told me that I should ask him why he doesn’t get his bike repaired, I guess we agree that his bike is indeed broken.

[quote]These are not only championship racers with corporate sponsors but also do all their own maintenance as well as having a store that trades in and repairs enduro and motox bikes with engineers who are paid test riders and are certified Yamaha mechanics , how about you?[/quote]Again, had you specified that the bike is awaiting repairs instead of praising the bikes when they are indeed broken, I would not have called them idiots. Just guys who are aware that the bikes need repair. And if the are as qualified as you say they are, then they’d know that a bike pissing fuel on the ground when stopped is not in good working order. Oh, but they still RUN is your point, isn’t it? “Good enough to race” to use your own words.

Problem with that is even I could manage to get a bike that needs carb repairs to run, so no questions there that these guys can do the same. But that’s expecting a bit much from Loretta when stalled on the side of the road with his new stock CPI. Comparing BROKEN race bikes with a BROKEN stock model is ridiculous, especially since the racing bikes have technicians making sure the bikes can run even if the floats are stuffed and need repair/adjustments. Stock models crap out and do not start when they are flooded, Dogma. Not with a stock air filter and only 1 and a half turns or so on the mixture adjustment screw, and certainly not once the crank is taking in fuel and the plug is soaked.

[quote]30min time difference, that doesn’t look good dude.[/quote]What part of “too much gas, not enough air” do you not understand?

Anyways, here’s some more reading for you:

-Needless to say, FUEL LEVEL IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT!!!

-The float level is a critical adjustment because it affects the both fuel and air mixture all the way through the engine’s operating range.

The following is a great PDF article. Serves me very well when arguing with urodacus that the level of fuel in the bowl affects the mixture.

-The level in the float chamber is therefore a calibration element of the carb since the metered fuel delivery changes with float levels and therefore affects the mixture ratio.

marboulette[/quote]
Irrelevant

Our bikes still run and win races.

The CPi will still run if it is flooding especially if it is just a little bit! It will not sit on the side of the road!!

[quote=“urodacus”][quote=“Dogma”]If I recall you posited stuck needle or floats for the reason of flooding. My first response dealt with that in that if the needle was stuck the bike should continue revving and should not stall since that will be the same as the throttle being stuck open.
[/quote]

this does happen occasionally on bikes with a really really worn slide, cranked on to full throttle, when the needle can come all the way out of the jet and settle against the edge of the jet tip, unable to fall back in, and thus keeping the slide jammed full open. that’s definitely time to reach for the kill switch.[/quote]

Now just STOP that. Motorcycling in Taiwan is quite adequately scary already, thanks.

OT (a relief?), but reminds me of a downside horror-story about running a diesel on SVO. Rings gum, and the thing starts to race uncontrollably burning its own sump oil, until it runs out or something else breaks. Excitingly expensive but at least one probably wouldn’t be sitting on top of the engine.

[quote=“Dogma”][quote=“marboulette”]Racing bikes are often tuned to accommodate a huge demand for fuel and air. They are tuned to have maximum power at the top end.[/quote]I

BS 4 stroke motox bike produce all their power at low end. As does the CPI SM[/quote]No one is talking about the bike design and torque repartition. Read what you quoted above one more time. I’m talking about tuning the bike so that it will have as much power as possible at the top end. You are confusing torque and horsepower. Four strokes engines like the one on a CPI have more torque at low RPM, but they also have less power in the low end. The bike has more horsepower in the top end but less torque.

Some documentation:[quote] "The best way to explain torque and horsepower is to show their curves on a graph. Torque is usually higher at low RPM’s and it usually falls off at high RPM’s; with horsepower being the opposite, horsepower is low at low RPM’s and generally increases at higher RPM’s… Link [/quote]

I word is used is “power” not torque. Like I said, racing bikes are tuned to have maximum power at the top end, where the most horsepower is deployed. You see, discussing semantics seems necessary, either you like it or not. If you only knew the difference between power and torque.

[quote][quote=“marboulette”]But fuel pissing out when the bike is stopped… I’m sorry but I have to call that BS.[/quote]BS to your BS, simply calling BS makes you guilty of your own accusations [/quote]I did not accuse anyone of anything. I post my opinion and I support it with relevant documentation. When I say it’s bull, it’s simply because I think it doesn’t make sense so I don’t think it’s true. Racing bikes in good order do not piss fuel out of the overflow when the engine is not running. That’s just an insult to modern racing technology. The fucking crank would fill up with fuel. Within about 20 seconds the plug would be soaked. :s

[quote] …can be shown to you visually. [/quote]Keep pushing and I think I’ll make a YouTube video to show YOU what happens when there is no stopping fuel from going into the float bowl on a stock motorcycle. :laughing:

Huh? you are calling your own BS about race bikes overflowing now?[/quote]No. Just showing how nonsensical it is to claim that several bikes are broken and racing anyways. Get a bigger carb fer Christ’s sakes is what I said, because it sounds like several bikes have the same problem. Do you think they may all be waiting for parts from Japan, too? This is what you said:[quote=“Dogma”]I can show you several bikes that flood as soon as the tap is turned on[/quote]Man, a bike that floods means fuel is going through the carb, into the piston sleeve and into the crank respectively. The plug gets soaked and you’re not going anywhere from that point on. So I call it bull. Live with it, and don’t be so bloody on the defensive. I’m only disagreeing with you.

It may stall on idle but it WILL start again[/quote]Not if enough fuel went in far enough to soak the plug. VERY highly unlikely.

[quote]Im sorry your whole argument is destroyed to the point that you are splitting hairs and picking irrelevant battles.

The war is lost dude, get over it![/quote]Unnecessarily condescending, but carry on Mr. Dogma.

[quote]Your continued finely sliced and personalised semantic debates only serve to further damage your credibility.[/quote]If you knew the difference between torque and power, we wouldn’t need to into discussing semantics. Christ, I also had to explain that a carb has a fucking float needle because you confused that with the throttle needle, too. :idunno: As for the rich/lean semantic clarification, it was clear that I meant too much gas and not enough air, wasn’t it? So that would be you playing with semantics, and once again being condescending.

[quote]I take no joy in rubbing peoples faces in it[/quote]Why use such terms just to say " I disagree with you." Do you really need to take such a grand stance? Stop taking yourself so seriously, man. We’re just shooting the shit.

[quote=“Dogma”]If you still want to disagree then lets agree to disagree shall we?[/quote]I think it’s pretty clear we disagree. Aren’t we already agreeing about that part? :laughing:

Look, man, see that submit button? Stay clear of it if you want to stop disagreeing because this discussion is quite interesting to me, and because I honestly think you know not what you are talking about. I don’t own a workshop just because it comes in handy. I just like this stuff.

marboulette

Wow well done, you have so undermined yourself that I need say nothing further.

[edit for niceness] Good luck and be happy.

Power is torque multiplied by engine revs divided by 5252 right?

Power and torque are always equal at 5252 revs. Torque is the twisting force at the crank and power is how much of this force can be achieved in a given time.

Was it James Watt that invented horsepower by calculating how much weight his donkey could pull up a well shaft and then multiplying it by 1.5? Very scientific! A donkey is about 2/3 the size of a horse!

I find this all terribly interesting too but sadly I don’t know enough about carbs to join in the “fun”.

I’m happy you boys have finally managed to agree to disagree. Good banter.