I really don’t understand the thought process to open fire at a car with just one woman and a bunch of children. I would assume that drug cartels only engage in drug-related violence but I guess they are just blood-thirsty in general?
Anyway Mexico, or should I say the entire Latin America, is just hopeless beyond repair.
Guys, the demand is in the U.S. The Mexican cartels might be competing with a few garage meth labs, semi collaborato rare with a few Chinese/Afghan opiates export, etc. But if you follow the money, the ones holding the bunches of dollars are in the U.S…
Sure, politicians across the left and right spectrum in Latin America are bought off, but theirs is not the money fattening the tax havens. Pity the Panama papers scandal never went over a dim sparkle.
The illegal drug trade economy supports big business in the States. Now that you mention Latin America is fracked, well, remember how it started. Remember CIA selling drugs to finance revolutions. Remember Pineapple holding trade secrets. Colombia guerrillas and the righteous right. Same as it ever was.
This
Neutral question .
What’s your take on the cartels weapons mostly coming from the US ? US permissive gun laws and gun culture seems to fueling the violence. Drugs go North, weapons go South.
And of course the MASSIVE demand for illegal drugs in the US.
Mexico and Mexicans seem to only be part of the problem.
One other thing, why is the violence so extreme there, anybody hazard a guess, I watched the docs and films but it’s really out of control terrorist level stuff. Are these people simply terrorists at heart ? Their endless wars seem to be selecting for the most psycho warlords and gunmen in each region.
Hey now let’s not forget the Warladies.
That’s racist!
I think these people have enough resources to get guns any way they please, the US is just the easiest. The problem imo, lies with the corruption. These guns are making over because people are letting them. I think something like less than 5% of gun homicides even make an arrest, cartels don’t fear getting caught with guns with the police in their pockets. Not to mention no witness will ever come forward due to all the rampant corruption.
Another major issue is there are parts of mexico where the cartel is law. Mexican gov literally gave up in some place. Like they gave up against El Chapos son.
I mean if you look at it, Canada isn’t having the same issues.
Mexico has always bred corruption. They’ve been saying they will clean it up for years. Multiple leaders change. So when your leaders are constantly corrupt…maybe it starts on the bottom. They are a democratic nation, so ultimately, they keep the system of corruption going in a way.
No one wants to the hear the truth about the CIA and the crack era. Pffft that just disrupts the long standing idea that black folks were/are incapable of manifest destiny. (/strong sarcasm for the uninitiated)
Of course it’s the easiest to obtain guns from the US since it’s a border country and the top 10 manufacturer of them. Laying the onus on corruption in Mexico is short sighted and overlooks the nuances at play. And it’s not just corruption alone when it comes to witnesses coming forward, it involves the witness’ life, their family lives, their livelyhood, etc. to sum up a multitude of reasons as to why individuals dont speak up.
Comparing Mexico to Canada is like comparing the UK to the US. Apples to oranges.
Mexico’s corruption problem is not a product of chance.) Mexico’s political system was created in the 1930s to consolidate the political power of the winners of the country’s 1910 revolution and to provide them with access to government posts and money. The resulting system was based on a simple transaction: loyalty to the president, across all political and judicial institutions, in exchange for access to wealth and political power.
Since then, government posts, both elective and by appointment, have been given out as part of an endless process of negotiations to maintain the political class’s control over the country and its spoils system. Functionaries have long seen their positions as opportunities to make money. Some office holders were provided with nonpublic information that allowed personal gain, while in other cases their appointments facilitated outright robbery. They were only prosecuted when they broke the golden rule — when they opposed the president or ceased to be perceived as loyal. There has been no distinction between political parties in these endeavors; the PRI, which was the only game in town for most of the 20th century, and the PAN have been equally implicated.
Give Odammit credit for Fast and Furious, but the rest is what Mexico did to itself.
Canada has a reasonably sane immigration policy. Canada doesn’t have these problems because Canada doesn’t let these problems in.
This is correct, Mexican Cartels were already importing guns from different countries. They will get guns no matter what, there are plenty of arms dealers in the world. Being on the border with US just makes it easier for them but it doesn’t mean stricter gun laws in US or Mexico would somehow decrease the flow of guns to Mexico. Perhaps instead of US AR 15s, they will just buy more Chinese and Ukraninan AK variants
3 years later, you still have that big of a grudge, huh?
You also have to blame some international banks like HSBC for knowingly laundering money for the Cartels and didn’t Chase JP Morgan get caught with 2 tons of cocaine on their ship 3 months ago.
Lots of people to blame, lots of reasons that aren’t about blame.
Unfortunately as time goes by, The Cartels have diversified beyond Drugs to human trafficking, Hostile take over of Farming (Lemon and Avocado farms). Oil/Gas stealing/Smuggling/Trade. Mineral mining, Gambling, Coyote work (Crossing Illegals to US) And legit businesses. The less they are able make from Drugs (due to competing Cartels and Mex Govt) the more actively they move into other businesses to maintain profits. Im all for a magic pill that can cure the US and Europe of its drug addiction but it won’t end the Cartels as they’re no longer merely Drug Cartels as they were 20 years ago. I don’t know what the solution is but blaming US drug users and somehow curing them and curbing Americans guns won’t solve the problem in 2019, it might have worked in 1999, but I doubt it.
Also want to point out the US though the main customer is not the only customer of these drugs. The Mexican Cartels operate globally in Europe, the Middle East and Philippines and across SE Asia. Even in Taiwan kids take drugs now
As much as I hate to point to film as a source, I will have to say NARCOS helped me see the nuances or help have me context.
It’s another industry, if you look at it without all the moral grandstanding. The other issue that isn’t really dealt with in these stories is a racial element. The potentional legitimacy of the drug industry most certainly elevate many POC and countries out of poverty.
A tad bit uncomfortable for the old guard in the US.
Not sure how this ties into racism. Can you explain? I think its an accepted fact that the drugs contribute to a large % of GDP in many nations like Mexico and Columbia and without that many which flows out of the US and Europe via the users these economies would deflate.
I guess from the official CIA POV they were more interested in fighting Communism in the 50-90s and any tool was used at their disposal including drugs. At least that’s become the official narrative
Sigh…let me get back to on the racial component. I’m gonna have to unpack some stuff to articulate it. LOL
Edit: I just remembered that even while the US might have been fighting communism, in 1970s Nixon kicked of the war on drugs.
Now let’s use that for context. Nixon’s war on drugs was designed to target African Americans and the counterculture. Anyone who has a modicum of common sense knows it was actually to criminalize black folks.
ThIs and future policies would divide the black communities. There’s no political power in a house divided, m’kay.
The US has effectively held it’s position of world power by effectively weaponizing white supremacy to its advantage by supressing any sort of real growth in many of these Latin countries. In fact, they have actively instigated chaos in some cases. This is where I’m nodding toward the racial angle.
If Cartels were allowed to flourish legitimately, we’d have seen Pablo Escobar and El Chapo on the cover of Forbes rather than behind bars. They’d be on par with the oil sheikhs, rubbing elbows in the UN influencing countries and effecting markets. Effectively reducing the US’s power on the world stage. At least, that’s the idea I’m toying with.
I can agree to this to some extent.
Thats quite a statement, I think US was more concerned by the spread Communism in the Western Hemisphere and Russian influence and Russians are some of the Whitest people I know. Also there are lots of Latin Americans that are white or more European/Spanish. They tend to be the ones that get voted into office and have shows on Telemundo, my point being there is racism in every country and white color is preferred even in Latin countries so some self reflection is needed there. The US however has allowed minorities to run at all levels of office Federal, State, Local, Polcie and run the biggest companies Microsoft, Google, Pepsi, Intel, Adobe etc, hard to say that about any other nation.
This one is quite a statement, need to understand your reasoning and POV more to dig into this. Its hard for me to see the racism angle. The US is one of the least racist countries I know of once you start comparing against every other country in the world…its not perfect, there’s room for improvement but theres way more room for improvement in other countries. I say this as a 1st Generation Immigrant to the US . Racism exists in all countries it just doesn’t come up in the news 24/7 for the world to see in most countries like it is in US. US is always open for discussion on the racism topic but elsewhere its not, doesn’t mean it doesnt exist in droves, their societies just don’t make it transparent, it just hasn’t evolved socially to that level yet where open discussions on racism is widely accepted in their own countries, but theyre comfortable discussing how other countries are racist.
I would benchmark how Racist or accepting a country is by how many positions of Real Power and Influence in Politics, Business, and Media that country accepts Minorities, Immigrants and people of color to hold. Also how their laws deal with Immigration and Illegal Immigration vs other countries. Need always to compare to other countries and not in a vacuum or against an ideal. For example what are US Laws in Immigration vs Canada? Vs Mexico? Vs EU? El Salvador? Honduras? Australia? China? Taiwan? India? Singapore? Japan? Korea? Brazil? Russia, The Middle East? Also do these countries allow minorities to run their biggest firms? To hold high levels of public office?
Were there high levels of Racism in US history? Hell yea. But did you ever wonder the same about every other country? The answer is Hellllls yea they were racist too. Asia, Middle East, Europe, South America at a level these countries don’t want to reflect on or admit to. Easier to just blame the US for being racist instead of working on racism within their own countries which have deep roots too, the US is open for racism to be exposed so it can be worked on no matter how hard it is, thats the main difference.
I dont see Brazil a country thats predominantly black and mixed having voted for a Black President twice. Will Mexico vote a native President or Black? I see a lot of White European Spanish Blood Presidents there too(I could be wrong).
I could be wrong but aren’t the Elite Class running many Governments in Latin American White of Spanish origin? I see lots of blonde/blue eyed people also in Mexico and Latin American with very pale skin. Whats the diff between Spanish White and English White? Not sure how many White Americans are actually full European anymore…its likely a low %.Also dont the wealthier class in Mexico tend to be the more Spanish White? Not so much the Indian/Natives? Is that openly discussed in Mexico and Latin America? Possibly in Brazil it is. Some of my Family from Taiwan moved to Brazil in 1980 so I get their perspectives