CBC vs The 'White' Face and the right for equal pay

Taiwan Living in Taiwan
1

For the purpose of being anonymous.
We will call this example: Language school ‘x’

Pay rates for SAME teaching level CBC + ‘White’ Face foreigner

CBC: 400NT (Automatic starting hourly pay) …after 1 year or so… pay increase between (20-50NT = 420-450NT)

‘White’ Face: 600NT (Automatic starting hourly pay)

Taiwanese teachers for lower level classes: 350NT (starting pay per hour)

I have seen ‘white’ faced foreigners hired because of their face colour and quite frankly, lack of any relevant teaching experience and it sickens me to know that they get paid more for being…well… white.

I am interesting in hearing other CBC’s take on this and to hear about their experiences.

2

CBC is the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation.

3

ABC, BBC, CBC … American Born Chinese… and so forth.

4

First of all, why be anonymous? Name and shame, I say.

Second of all, I doubt it’s your status as a Canadian Born Chinese that is the root of your problem. I suspect they don’t care much whether you’re from Toronto, Seattle, London, Perth, or Christchurch. It’s your “Asian-ness” that’s the cause of the discrimination.

Third, good schools don’t do this, only the crappy ones. Again, name and shame, I say.

5

Might I suggest working for language school ‘y’

Better yet, maybe blaming all those Taiwanese with passports of convenience for accepting such shit wages and usually having equally shit English.

You can play the “white face” card all day, but at the end of the day without that $600/hr pay, you wouldn’t have that many white faces coming to this cultural, culinary and enviromental disaster called Taiwan. This is also a nice example of similar race discrimination. The fact that you or a CBC actually accepted such pay is a source of much amusement in the first place.

6

I am sorry for accepting such a pay to buy food and pay for rent.

7

I am sorry for accepting such a pay to buy food and pay for rent.[/quote]

Well, you can’t ask for more if you’ll do it for less. Why would they say ‘yes’?

I didn’t teach for under $xNT in Taiwan or £x in my country. if you sell yourself short, you’re in no position to bargain, or establish yourself as worthy of more pay. If your boss is paying you 400, why would he make the decision to empty his wallet of an extra few hundred?

Also, your English writing is not of a very high standard. There is more than one basic ‘Chinese speaker’ error, which is not a ‘keyboard slip’. I don’t make those kind of errors. This is not due to my skin colour, but due to my upbringing as a monolingual native speaker of English.

8

[quote]I have seen ‘white’ faced foreigners hired because of their face colour and quite frankly, lack of any relevant teaching experience and it sickens me to know that they get paid more for being…well… white.
[/quote]
Then you’re working in the wrong country. White faces are paid more because they’re worth more. Its THAT simple.

9

At some schools English teachers get paid by the kilo. As a result, the CBCs and other alphabet soupsters tend to earn less, and conversely big lassies like buttercup take home a hefty packet.

But seriously, it’s supply and demand and all that; if bosses could find whiteys willing to work for 400 an hour, then they wouldn’t be paying 600 an hour.

10

It should also be noted that there is indeed a bias on the part of some parents and indeed adult teachers that having a white face teach English is the best deal, regardless of teaching ability. Some folks feel they’re not getting their money’s worth if they learn from an ABC or CBC, even if the quality of teaching is better than some slacker with no experience except for having a a big nose?
Why else would so many Canadians and South Africans get hired?

11

I bet you could earn more teaching Chinese in the west than I could? :whistle:

How about the fact that at the market you get charged less than me because I am a foreigner?

Seriously - grow up.

12

British Council and Manchester University. But I quit and do something else now, though.

Not being pissy. Improve your skills, stop selling yourself short and provide a service people value, and you’ll get paid more. If you choose to do it, you can’t complain.

Hmm, interesting theory, aj, it ‘has bulk’. Unfortunately, the numbers may lie in my case. I am indeed, a porker, but I’m only 5’2", so a svelte 6 footer could indeed have as large a packet as myself, and a gentleman with even a little more gravitas around the booty could be raking it in. Sexists! On the bright side, at least I get a Christmas bonus.

13

[quote=“marshmallow21”]Pay rates for SAME teaching level CBC + ‘White’ Face foreigner

CBC: 400NT (Automatic starting hourly pay) …after 1 year or so… pay increase between (20-50NT = 420-450NT)

‘White’ Face: 600NT (Automatic starting hourly pay)[/quote]

I agree that the above situation is unfair.

Disclaimer Number 1: This post is for informational purposes only. I’m not a lawyer here, and nothing in this post should be understood as legal advice, or advice of any kind.

The following is from the Web site of the Council of Labor Affairs:

[quote]Prohibition of Employment Discrimination

To protect equal employment opportunities for citizens, Item 1, Article 5 of the Employment Services Act was amended and promulgated by the President on May 23, 2007. The amended article is as follows: “For the purpose of ensuring national’s equal opportunity in employment, Employer is prohibited from discriminating against any Job Applicant or Employee on the basis of race, class, language, thought, religion, political party, place of origin, place of birth, gender, gender orientation, age, marital status, appearance, facial features, disability, or past membership in any labor union; matters stated clearly in other laws shall be followed in priority.”

On June 5, 2007 Council of Labor Affairs, Executive Yuan submitted amended articles and resolutions to all government agencies, municipalities, city and county governments with LaoZhiYeZi 0960501528 letter to inform them of the promotion and review of existing regulations in their organizations in charge. In addition, the Council also inspected employers in the jurisdiction regarding content of the job vacancy advertisement.

After the promulgation of the amended Item 1, Article 5 of Employment Services Act, public agencies, public owned and private enterprises and civil associations have to comply with the regulations of the Act for recruitment and hiring. Employees encountering employment discrimination shall file a review application with local city and county governments (Bureau of Labor or Bureau of Social Affairs), once the discrimination complaint is held to be true by the Employment Discrimination Review Committee, violators shall be fined an amount of at least NT$ 300,000 and at most NT$ 1,500,000 in accordance with Article 65 of the Employment Services Act.[/quote]
cla.gov.tw/cgi-bin/siteMaker … e=48f2bc96

Below is a link to an English translation of the Employment Services Act, on the Ministry of Justice Web site:

law.moj.gov.tw/Eng/LawClass/LawA … e=N0090001

Disclaimer Number 2: As to Article 5 of the Employment Services Act, I am uncertain of the following:

(a) whether this law applies to noncitizens;
(b) whether discrimination in pay is recognized as discrimination under this law;
(c) whether this law applies in your particular case, or in any given particular case;
(d) whether this law is widely enforced, and whether it would be enforced in your case;
(e) what risks are involved in mentioning this law to your employer or in attempting to have this law enforced.

14

How do you let that happen? I never pay more. Must be your own fault, then.
Blaming the victim always works, doesn’t it?
I feel the OP has some valid points. Maybe his/her English is not as good as some foreigners, but on the same hand it couldn’t be much worse than some others who certainly get away with more than 400 or even 600 NT an hour. Discrimation based on appearance is acceptable to some, I guess.

15

Difference in pay is based on market demand, and the perceived value.

Parents that send their children to learn English at these buxibans are most likely expecting a “white” faced teacher. If the parent’s expectations are not met, they may want to pay less, or find somewhere else. Of course there are always other factors that can compensate such as teacher holding a Masters degree, years of teaching experience, etc. But in general, parents may “perceive” they are receiving lesser value. The ABC/CBC culture may have influences that may not provide it with a pure English upbringing, such as parents speaking Chinese at home, etc. The same would apply to caucasians as well, but possibily to a lower extent…also knowing how to speak Spanish or French is a bonus!

I used to work for a large retail firm that initially made all of its garments in Canada. However when I had visited the factories, it was full of Chinese ladies sewing - did not expect that. Quality was really good though. If we moved the entire factory to China with the same people and equipment, and it was stamped “Made in China” instead of Canada, would you expect to pay the same? Most likely no because the perceived value has dropped - Canada would be more positively correlated with higher quality than China.

If I owned a buxiban, I would generally pay a “white” faced foreigner more than an ABC/CBC, assuming both have the same credentials, simply because the markets forces dictate they have a higher perceived value. Same thing, if I owned a modeling agency, I would pay the super attractive girls more than their counterparts, even though they maybe doing the exact same thing - standing and posing :laughing:

Just some thoughts.

16

If I had a kid in England and sent it for foreign language lessons, say in Chinese, I’d feel my money was better spent on the Chinese looking teacher than on the white teacher. It is a bloody horrible thing to admit, yet I admit it. I think that shitty thoughts/acts are inherent in all of us, and struggle as we might, we can’t help being an arsehole in somebody elses eyes.

17

I did this recently, and had a powerful reaction against employing / engaging in treatment from a white acupuncturist. In the end, I rationalised that I chose the 50+ Chinese guy because he had more training and experience, but initially, I admit my reaction was purely racial.

I was talking about this with a bunch of students who all worked in the local Chinatown. The Thais worked in Chinese restaurants and the Chinese worked in Thai restaurants. The Polish kids couldn’t get a foot in the door.

Customers want x which is not rational, but discretionary purchases aren’t rational. Ask the girl who spent a month’s salary on a bag, whether she bought it because it was waterproof and fit lots of stuff in it.

18

The problem in Taiwan is that the Taiwanese parents seem to equate ‘white’ with ‘native speaker of English’. My blond friend from Italy who could barely speak English at all got a job 2 days after arrival in Taipei; my half-Taiwanese friend who was born and raised in the USA and was a native speaker of English (and only English) struggled for weeks to get hired.
If I had a kid in England and sent it for Chinese lessons, I most definitely would not feel my money was well-spent if the lying, ignorant boss of the language school passed off a native speaker of Japanese or Korean as a Chinese teacher, just because he/she looked Chinese. That’s the equivalent of what the bosses of Taiwanese buxibans are doing.

19

You state that you’re a CBC, but are you a native speaker (of English that is!)?

As already noted above, only dodgy schools would have such a policy anyway. I have worked with several Taiwanese teachers with dual citizenship or CBCs/ABCs that have received “white face” salaries and respect.

20

[quote=“marshmallow21”]For the purpose of being anonymous.
We will call this example: Language school ‘x’

Pay rates for SAME teaching level CBC + ‘White’ Face foreigner

CBC: 400NT (Automatic starting hourly pay) …after 1 year or so… pay increase between (20-50NT = 420-450NT)

‘White’ Face: 600NT (Automatic starting hourly pay)

Taiwanese teachers for lower level classes: 350NT (starting pay per hour)

[color=#FF0000]I have seen ‘white’ faced foreigners hired because of their face colour and quite frankly, lack of any relevant teaching experience and it sickens me to know that they get paid more for being…well… white.[/color]

I am interesting in hearing other CBC’s take on this and to hear about their experiences.[/quote]
And you mention:

I am sorry for accepting such a pay to buy food and pay for rent.[/quote]
Excuse my bluntness, but from what you have said, I am assuming, you are (regardless of being CBC, ABC or any other alphabetic term, which I personally feel is racist - or at least obtuse - in itself) either:

  1. A qualified Canadian teacher (I assume Canadian seeing as you mentioned the whole ABC thing), or
  2. An unqualified foreigner (your ethnicity being of no consequence, because you are either Taiwanese or a foreigner).

If you are number one, then 'm quite certain you have much better options available to you in Canada as a qualified teacher. Including such things as health benefits and ample paid vacations.
If you are number two, then you are hardly in a position to complain, as you would then be equally unqualified by your own assessment other than your ethnicity.

[quote=“TheGingerMan”]It should also be noted that there is indeed a bias on the part of some parents and indeed adult teachers that having a white face teach English is the best deal, regardless of teaching ability. Some folks feel they’re not getting their money’s worth if they learn from an ABC or CBC, even if the quality of teaching is better than some slacker with no experience except for having a a big nose?
Why else would so many [color=#FF0000]Canadians and South Africans[/color] get hired?[/quote]
Glad you brought that up.
Of all the teachers I have met here, there have been non-native speakers from all the major English speaking countries teaching here. Including the US and the UK. So singling out Afrikaners and French Canadians is denying that fact. In fact, the only two countries’ teachers I have encountered here who have all been native speakers have been Aussies and Kiwis.

That said, seeing as the issue of qualifications was raised by the OP, there are far more Saffas teaching here (in my experience in the south at any rate) who are qualified and experienced teachers in SA than any other group I have encountered.

And as a parent with a child in one of the type of schools under discussion, I would much rather have a “big nose ass clown” playing games with him at kindy than a Taiwanese teacher. Right now, my biggest problem is correcting the shitty grammar and pronunciation he picks up in the piss arse excuse of an English class they have four times a week. The other little blighters don’t have an English speaking parent so anything they pick up is fine, although at 3 years old they pick up next to nothing anyway. Seeing as my son understands everything I say and learns fairly quickly he soaks up anything in Chinese, Taiwanese or English.
What pisses me off even more is that we pay the same amount for kindy that parents with kids in other branches do, but we’re stuck with Teacher S***** with his crap English, whereas the other branches have native English speakers. As a parent I think I’m being screwed. So, at the end of this semester I’ll be removing my son from his current kindy and placing him in a Kids castle round the corner from the new house we recently moved into. I’ve been there and had a look around. I saw the English teachers and they’re all whiteys. Being a whitey myself, I’m aware that not all whiteys are English. So I chatted to them and found them to all be native speakers (two Canadians, an Aussie, an American and a Saffa). Personally, I wouldn’t have cared had any of them been another ethnicity other than European, as long as they are native speakers. However, in light of my recent experience in these matters, I can now understand how a parent (who isn’t a whitey, and who can’t speak English) might not be totally convinced that Teacher CBC, Teacher ABC or Teacher XYZ might not actually be a native speaker.

And to be frank, Asian looking Canadians and Americans aren’t the only teachers that are met with prejudice and lower pay. South Africans generally work for dogs wages compared to what North Americans get. Regardless of experience or qualifications. In fact, many jobs specifically advertise that they want a North American teacher (US or Canadian passport), besides the fact that 99% of parents or buxiban laobans wouldn’t know the difference if it kicked them in the knackers. But that’s the nature of the business. Whining about it isn’t going to change anything.
And then we aren’t even talking about African Americans, some of whom are qualified and highly experienced, yet can’t find work.

Discrimination based on nationality seems to be ok in some quarters, also.

Edit: I also find the term “white” Face, in the title to be somewhat offensive.