The ownership for my apartment changed in the middle of my lease, and my lease is coming up end of June. My current landlord is denying me my security deposit back when I move out because he says I did not give him the money myself, therefore he is not responsible for it.
Long story short, after speaking to my old landlord and his rental agent, the agreement between the two landlords during purchasing said that my deposit was included in the purchase price, making my new landlord responsible for my deposit. The new landlord is refusing to answer his phone when the agent calls him, and he is returning my texts with “figure it out yourself” when I asked him about the deposit. The agent said I should just not pay the last 2 month’s rent or live there an extra 2 months without paying rent if he doesn’t give me my deposit back (it’s a little more than 2 month’s rent worth), but the new landlord WILL turn off my utilities if I am even a little late on rent (once, I pressed the wrong button on the ATM and it didn’t go through…my mistake, but I paid him in person, in cash, a couple days later). Someone also said I can just leave some of my things there when I move out so he can’t do anything with the apartment until I move it out (also not give him the keys until I get the deposit back). Maybe I should change the lock? Perhaps he would just break down the door?? Or, (evilness brief thought) I could just sell some of his things (dresser, fridge, tv) and forget the deposit? I don’t like that idea, though…bad karma. Thoughts???
[quote=“wu2who”]The ownership for my apartment changed in the middle of my lease, and my lease is coming up end of June. My current landlord is denying me my security deposit back when I move out because he says I did not give him the money myself, therefore he is not responsible for it.
Long story short, after speaking to my old landlord and his rental agent, the agreement between the two landlords during purchasing said that my deposit was included in the purchase price, making my new landlord responsible for my deposit. The new landlord is refusing to answer his phone when the agent calls him, and he is returning my texts with “figure it out yourself” when I asked him about the deposit. The agent said I should just not pay the last 2 month’s rent or live there an extra 2 months without paying rent if he doesn’t give me my deposit back (it’s a little more than 2 month’s rent worth), but the new landlord WILL turn off my utilities if I am even a little late on rent (once, I pressed the wrong button on the ATM and it didn’t go through…my mistake, but I paid him in person, in cash, a couple days later). Someone also said I can just leave some of my things there when I move out so he can’t do anything with the apartment until I move it out (also not give him the keys until I get the deposit back). Maybe I should change the lock? Perhaps he would just break down the door?? Or, (evilness brief thought) I could just sell some of his things (dresser, fridge, tv) and forget the deposit? I don’t like that idea, though…bad karma. Thoughts???[/quote]
Do what the agent says: just don’t pay the last two months rent. How can he possibly turn off the utilities? He’s not allowed to tamper with anything outside the house, and if he’s coming INTO the house, just change the lock. Like, today. I suspect what’s happening here is that he’s trying to force you out. Possibly he has some alternative use for the place in mind.
Anyway, there’s no need to just put up with his bullshit. The law might be a bit vague, but he’s clearly not holding up his end of the landlord-tenant bargain; if he wants to act like a dick, you really don’t need to feel guilty about responding in kind.
Selling his property though: bad idea. 100% illegal and two wrongs don’t make a right.
Do what the agent says: just don’t pay the last two months rent. How can he possibly turn off the utilities? He’s not allowed to tamper with anything outside the house, and if he’s coming INTO the house, just change the lock. Like, today. I suspect what’s happening here is that he’s trying to force you out. Possibly he has some alternative use for the place in mind.
Anyway, there’s no need to just put up with his bullshit. The law might be a bit vague, but he’s clearly not holding up his end of the landlord-tenant bargain; if he wants to act like a dick, you really don’t need to feel guilty about responding in kind.
Selling his property though: bad idea. 100% illegal and two wrongs don’t make a right.[/quote]
Look I’ve been here for quite some time and had experiences with bosses stealing withheld tax money and other consumer issues. These Taiwan business man somehow think foreigners are stupid and won’t go after their rights.
I’ve found that once the “wheels of justice” start to turn, they realized old foreign guy has some brains and is going use them, you will get an immediate change of tone and you will hear… “oh, it was just a misunderstanding, here’s your money”. “No need to talk that way”.
I like what finely said. Two Wrongs Don’t make a right. Be sure. 1. Can you really withhold your rent money? Find the info from an official source and get it in writing. 2. Notify the agency that deals with housing contracts. Call the foreigner help line ran by the police. Get the paperwork necessary to file a complaint, fill it out. Then, pay your rent in person showing documentation and your possible choice of action. Bring your cell phone and a Chinese friend and record the proceedings.
I had long term goals of getting a permanent residency and had to cross my T’s and dot my i’s I’ve found that these kind of people back down if you are prepared. Sometimes I prepare a great fight and they cave in too fast. That’s no fun. Good luck I would not break any law or agreement unless you are legally allowed to do so. Get that permission in writing. Ask the police. quote a date and person of any information you get on the phone.
PS: I HOPE YOU PHOTOGRAPHED YOUR APPARTMENT BEFORE MOVING IN. Ah no matter, photograph it now. Everything should be in reasonable condition right. Just proof when fighting to get your security deposit back. Damage or late paying should be the only reasons they with hold your deposit if I am not mistaken.
Yes, calling the foreigner legal help line is the right move. The new landlord bought a property and he is liable for any legal obligations agreed to by the previous owner. Hopefully the foreigner help line can provide you with some sort of legal document (possibly just a link to the specific law) that you can present to your new landlord.
He’ll fold like a cheap camera from the mainland. Too bad numbers are illegal. Sadly… friend. Trust no one, take recipients, get documentation in all agreements. Taiwanese do try to cheat you blind. Not all. But one or two is enough. IF you get paid in cash, get the ammount you recieve in writing… including the deductions. saved my butt. On the whole I love Taiwan.
He’ll fold like a cheap camera from the mainland. Too bad numbers are illegal. Sadly… friend. Trust no one, take recipients, get documentation in all agreements. Taiwanese do try to cheat you blind. Not all. But one or two is enough. IF you get paid in cash, get the ammount you recieve in writing… including the deductions. saved my butt. On the whole I love Taiwan.[/quote]
I need a decoder because I have no idea what you said here. Yes, he will fold because the law is on the tenants side.
Numbers illegal?
recipients?
one or two is enough?
paid in cash…writing?
deduction?
I can guess what some mean but they seem to be a rant against dishonest people and don’t relate to the OP. The OP had all of this but the new landlord doesn’t think it’s necessary to honor the contract (repay the deposit) because he didn’t sign it.
This is very helpful, thanks everyone! I’ve already paid this month’s rent, so I’d only owe him the last month. Although, I would rather do things by the book rather than take chances, so I think the Foreigner Help Line would be a good choice…anyone have the number to that? Also, I’m not sure if this property is being taxed for them…old landlord said to not say anything because it wasn’t, but I don’t know if the new landlord is doing the same. I don’t want to be kicked out once they find out, if that’s the case…
But sometimes mentioning the tax on the rent can unjam a landlord who doesn’t feel like doing the right thing. They don’t want the wheels of bureaucracy to start turning, because they’re liable for a whole lot of back tax in most cases.
You’re in a situation where you’re 100% legally in the right and he’s 100% in the wrong. I think it’s best to keep it that way before you launch into a battle .
He’ll fold like a cheap camera from the mainland. Too bad numbers are illegal. Sadly… friend. Trust no one, take recipients, get documentation in all agreements. Taiwanese do try to cheat you blind. Not all. But one or two is enough. IF you get paid in cash, get the ammount you recieve in writing… including the deductions. saved my butt. On the whole I love Taiwan.[/quote]
I need a decoder because I have no idea what you said here. Yes, he will fold because the law is on the tenants side.
Numbers illegal? [I mean betting or taking bets. I would be a rich man if I could bet on what I think dumb foreigners would do)
recipients?
one or two is enough?
paid in cash…writing?
deduction? (referring to my own trouble of bosses stealing my money… A common practice in rural Taiwan).
I can guess what some mean but they seem to be a rant against dishonest people and don’t relate to the OP. The OP had all of this but the new landlord doesn’t think it’s necessary to honor the contract (repay the deposit) because he didn’t sign it.[/quote]
Sorry Abacus. I should be more focused. I get real passionate and angry. Plus I jump on and off, often not having enough time to correctly my emotionally charged, dyslexic-ally modified rants. But I can assure you… I do know what I’m talking about.
Yes, OP… It’s not your fault. But it’s best that you get exposed to being cheated now. Than later.
Abacus, you’ve heard my rants for a long time now… It all started more than fifteen years ago when my boss tried to steal my tax money by falsifying forms. They would deduct money from my pay very pay period, pay me in cash, then tell us foreigner workers that we don’t have to worry about taxes.
In fact, they would under report your income, so in fact you would own no taxes. Then they would pocket the entire amount they withheld from you each pay period. Many foreigners trusted the boss and just took the pay envelope. I at the urging of my wife asked for a statement every week, then at tax time. I had to confront the boss for the W4 form equivalent, and he produced it at the last minute. It said that I had owed no taxes. After having many tantrums and cursing out every one I finally got the corrected form. My refund was 10K plus. imagine how much boss man would have made in total. Because this job was near my wife’s family in rural Taiwan, I could not really go far for an other job. I put up with this for almost ten years.
OP you wil find this cheating and misrepresentation amount all aspects of Taiwan society. This very bulletin board and its posters saved my sanity and helped me get my visa, work permits and other things I needed over time.
Above all… don’t do anything illegal. You are entitled to your deposit back. I’ve seen so much stupidity done by foreigners. This is still a country and it had adequate rules to protect you. If you don’t pay the rent. He can lock you out, I think. Even if the landlord can’t do it legally, you will be locked out until you get around to fighting it. If you sell his things or change the locks, you are stealing and tampering with his property.
If you express knowledge of the law. and make steps to use it. Most businessmen, employers, landlords will back down and just tell you that what every happened to you was just a misunderstanding and that we are all friends here. That does not go for guys wearing leather jackets with tattoos who hang out in front of video game parlors or truck drivers… avoid dealing with them.
[quote=“Taiwan_Student”] If you change the locks, you are stealing and tampering with his property.
[/quote]
Wrong!
If you change the locks, you are securing the place which is your duty.
Also, since you paid the rent and have a contract, the place is legally your property for the period of time stipulated in your contract.
However, you must return the apartment in an almost original state, so better keep the old lock somewhere.
If he enters the place without permission, and he breaks the locks in order to do so, that would be break in and enter. I guess the other word is burglary.
Yes, I’m pretty certain it’s not illegal to change locks (or anything else for that matter) as long as you put the place back the way you found it when you leave.
If you want to, you can try 簡易法庭. Our small claim court for things like this. I think it’s $nt1000 to lodge a case. If you live in Taipei, they may be more equipped to serve you, otherwise, better bring a local friend you trust. It doesn’t matter if you are citizen or not, the problem is more in the language.
Document all the changes and phone conversations. I used to record my phone conversations with a digital recorder, but I’ve seen apps can do it more easily. The court would act once you lodge your case, in my experience, it takes one week to get back to you, asking for more evidence etc. However, it may not need to go this far, you could just talk about it with the rental agent whoever “the other party” is and he’ll probably get his ass together right away.
You should be dealing with whoever sign the contract, except it says outright that in the event of changing ownership, he’s not responsible for the return of the deposit.
Occupying the apartment/room just for the sake of using up your deposit is not economical wise, though. If you just occupy it and you pay rent to live somewhere else, you’d still be wasting the deposit. Better to document it when it becomes uninhabitable and move out right away. Claim however much the rent (if any) you lose plus deposit and the inconvenience you suffer (not too much though) and let the legal system work for you when you live somewhere else happily.
“Hi. Thanks for the advice. I decided to figure it out and am going to file court papers next Monday. It seems like the best way. Also, when I file my taxes, do you know if I need actual receipts from you or will a copy of my bank transfers work? Call me if you have any questions or think of anything before I take care of this. I will be glad to help answer anything you might need.”
Can you also get any sort of contract between the old landlord and the new one? He seems more reasonable to help.
My assumption is new guy took over the place. He has to pay you the deposit and, if he has a grievance against the old landlord, should go after him. Not a lawyer, but that seems most logical.
Foreigner hotline number (24 hours) :
0800-024-111
I think the important thing is to not follow the advice and simply not pay the final two months rent (unless agreed upon with the new landlord). At this point the new landlord hasn’t actually done anything wrong and you would be doing the first infraction.
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