cfimages: Changing the hukou is easy if your landlord will allow it. Many won’t, because then they’ll have to pay tax on the rent they get from you (case in point: my wife and I are still registered with her family in Zhanghua for this reason). Students in digs also won’t be able to reassign their hukou to their student accommodation.
Not really an issue for most though as home ownership rate is 85% of thereabouts.
Aren’t most students in student accommodation too young to vote though? I used to have students as neighbors and they said most only spend the first year or two in dorms.
Not really an issue for most though as home ownership rate is 85% of thereabouts.[/quote]
Not had your morning coffee? The 85%, even if true, refers to families obviously not individuals. No one really knows exactly how many individuals are unregistered in Taipei for example because they, well, aren’t registered. So even if 85% of registered individuals have their own homes, there could be hundreds of thousands who are living in the city, renting, and not having household registration.
This is not a trivial issue especially for city elections where you have a landlord class that has an in interest in disenfranchising renters so they don’t have to declare rent and also don’t have a class of people voting against policies that will see an increase in housing prices.
Not really an issue for most though as home ownership rate is 85% of thereabouts.[/quote]
Not had your morning coffee? The 85%, even if true, refers to families obviously not individuals. No one really knows exactly how many individuals are unregistered in Taipei for example because they, well, aren’t registered. So even if 85% of registered individuals have their own homes, there could be hundreds of thousands who are living in the city, renting, and not having household registration.
[/quote]
When you say unregistered, do you mean no registration at all (meaning they are ineligible to vote anywhere) or unregistered where they live but registered elsewhere?
Not really an issue for most though as home ownership rate is 85% of thereabouts.[/quote]
Not had your morning coffee? The 85%, even if true, refers to families obviously not individuals. No one really knows exactly how many individuals are unregistered in Taipei for example because they, well, aren’t registered. So even if 85% of registered individuals have their own homes, there could be hundreds of thousands who are living in the city, renting, and not having household registration.
[/quote]
When you say unregistered, do you mean no registration at all (meaning they are ineligible to vote anywhere) or unregistered where they live but registered elsewhere?[/quote]
Unregistered where they live. Like my wife, who has to return to Taoyuan to vote where we own an apartment despite living in New Taipei. Someone may well have household registration in Ktown and live in Taipei in an apartment where the landlord does not want him to register (because as taffy says, then the landlord has to declare the rent as income). His family back in Ktown may even own their own house.
Not really an issue for most though as home ownership rate is 85% of thereabouts.[/quote]
Not had your morning coffee? The 85%, even if true, refers to families obviously not individuals. No one really knows exactly how many individuals are unregistered in Taipei for example because they, well, aren’t registered. So even if 85% of registered individuals have their own homes, there could be hundreds of thousands who are living in the city, renting, and not having household registration.
[/quote]
When you say unregistered, do you mean no registration at all (meaning they are ineligible to vote anywhere) or unregistered where they live but registered elsewhere?[/quote]
Unregistered where they live. Like my wife, who has to return to Taoyuan to vote where we own an apartment despite living in New Taipei. Someone may well have household registration in Ktown and live in Taipei in an apartment where the landlord does not want him to register (because as taffy says, then the landlord has to declare the rent as income). His family back in Ktown may even own their own house.[/quote]
Ok. Legally speaking, there’s no reason for someone not to change their registration. In practice it may not be so easy, but if the renter is benefiting by lower rent, then I don’t see they really have a right to complain about inconvenience. It would only be a valid complaint, IMO, if the law prevented people from changing their hukou.
Not really an issue for most though as home ownership rate is 85% of thereabouts.[/quote]
Not had your morning coffee? The 85%, even if true, refers to families obviously not individuals. No one really knows exactly how many individuals are unregistered in Taipei for example because they, well, aren’t registered. So even if 85% of registered individuals have their own homes, there could be hundreds of thousands who are living in the city, renting, and not having household registration.
[/quote]
When you say unregistered, do you mean no registration at all (meaning they are ineligible to vote anywhere) or unregistered where they live but registered elsewhere?[/quote]
Unregistered where they live. Like my wife, who has to return to Taoyuan to vote where we own an apartment despite living in New Taipei. Someone may well have household registration in Ktown and live in Taipei in an apartment where the landlord does not want him to register (because as taffy says, then the landlord has to declare the rent as income). His family back in Ktown may even own their own house.[/quote]
Ok. Legally speaking, there’s no reason for someone not to change their registration. In practice it may not be so easy, but if the renter is benefiting by lower rent, then I don’t see they really have a right to complain about inconvenience. It would only be a valid complaint, IMO, if the law prevented people from changing their hukou.[/quote]
It’s a valid complaint because some people are effectively disenfranchised (especially in city elections) and landlords don’t have to declare extra income. So the government gets lower taxes, and a million people or so, according to Commonwealth Magazine, have such declared low income (because it’s all from rent) that they actually enjoy subsidies on their health insurance, among other benefits.
How’s them apples? In many cases the renter then (who can’t vote in city elections) will be subsidizing his landlord’s health insurance as the renter will be paying full taxes on his income while the landlord pays nothing.
It’s a crazy system.
Not really an issue for most though as home ownership rate is 85% of thereabouts.[/quote]
Not had your morning coffee? The 85%, even if true, refers to families obviously not individuals. No one really knows exactly how many individuals are unregistered in Taipei for example because they, well, aren’t registered. So even if 85% of registered individuals have their own homes, there could be hundreds of thousands who are living in the city, renting, and not having household registration.
[/quote]
When you say unregistered, do you mean no registration at all (meaning they are ineligible to vote anywhere) or unregistered where they live but registered elsewhere?[/quote]
Unregistered where they live. Like my wife, who has to return to Taoyuan to vote where we own an apartment despite living in New Taipei. Someone may well have household registration in Ktown and live in Taipei in an apartment where the landlord does not want him to register (because as taffy says, then the landlord has to declare the rent as income). His family back in Ktown may even own their own house.[/quote]
Ok. Legally speaking, there’s no reason for someone not to change their registration. In practice it may not be so easy, but if the renter is benefiting by lower rent, then I don’t see they really have a right to complain about inconvenience. It would only be a valid complaint, IMO, if the law prevented people from changing their hukou.[/quote]
It’s a valid complaint because some people are effectively disenfranchised and landlords don’t have to declare extra income. So the government gets lower taxes, and a million people or so, according to Commonwealth Magazine, have such declared low income (because it’s all from rent) that they actually enjoy subsidies on their health insurance, among other benefits.
How’s them apples? In many cases the renter then will be subsidizing his landlord’s health insurance as the renter will be paying full taxes on his income while the landlord pays nothing.
It’s a crazy system.[/quote]
Agree that it’s a crazy system but really there is nothing stopping a renter from reporting the landlord to the tax authorities. If everyone did that, rents would naturally be higher, so renters are in their own way perpetuating the system. Not as much as landlords, sure, but there’s still an element of it. Renters benefit from lower rent via this system so if that same system works against them, they shouldn’t complain too much.
Not really an issue for most though as home ownership rate is 85% of thereabouts.[/quote]
Not had your morning coffee? The 85%, even if true, refers to families obviously not individuals. No one really knows exactly how many individuals are unregistered in Taipei for example because they, well, aren’t registered. So even if 85% of registered individuals have their own homes, there could be hundreds of thousands who are living in the city, renting, and not having household registration.
This is not a trivial issue especially for city elections where you have a landlord class that has an in interest in disenfranchising renters so they don’t have to declare rent and also don’t have a class of people voting against policies that will see an increase in housing prices.[/quote]
I think you overstate the electoral implications. You are assuming that these people are likely to vote DPP. Even if this is true (I haven’t seen any empirical data on this), they are still registered and vote elsewhere - it is just that the impact of their vote is shifted. Your wife can’t influence the Xinbei City elections, but she can influence those in Taoyuan County.
I agree that people should be allowed to vote outside their electoral district. But to completely fair, overseas voting should also be allowed. As a British citizen, I can cast a ballot by post or proxy from overseas. If this was allowed for Taiwan, the Taishang in China and Taiwanese working and studying abroad would be able to vote - which would (probably) benefit the KMT. So I think the claim that the current system hurts the DPP is very questionable.
Not really an issue for most though as home ownership rate is 85% of thereabouts.[/quote]
Not had your morning coffee? The 85%, even if true, refers to families obviously not individuals. No one really knows exactly how many individuals are unregistered in Taipei for example because they, well, aren’t registered. So even if 85% of registered individuals have their own homes, there could be hundreds of thousands who are living in the city, renting, and not having household registration.
This is not a trivial issue especially for city elections where you have a landlord class that has an in interest in disenfranchising renters so they don’t have to declare rent and also don’t have a class of people voting against policies that will see an increase in housing prices.[/quote][/quote]
I think you overstate the electoral implications. You are assuming that these people are likely to vote DPP.[/quot
I have already stated I think the implications for this election were minor, though certainly real. And I never once said anything about being bad for the DPP.
I think this is a issue more for city and legislative elections as you have people living in the city and not having their interests being represented. Yet as I stated they are often paying more taxes than the property owners. Talk about a skewed system.
[quote=“Mucha Man”]
I have already stated I think the implications for this election were minor, though certainly real. And I never once said anything about being bad for the DPP.
I think this is a issue more for city and legislative elections as you have people living in the city and not having their interests being represented. Yet as I stated they are often paying more taxes than the property owners. Talk about a skewed system.[/quote]
Yes, I agree.
Actually a lot of people who could easily move their household registration to Taipei choose not to for various reasons and “go home” to vote at each election. The ancestral home is still important in Taiwanese society, and a vote back home can go a lot further than one in the city.
[quote=“plasmatron”][quote=“shawn_c”]
- China stopped allowing tourists to come to Taiwan in the weeks up to the election, probably for two reasons. The first reason is so that “Taishang” (Taiwanese businessmen conducting business in China) would have flights to get back and vote Blue. The other reason being that they didn’t want their people to see democracy in action… although, that’s blatant, it’s no conspiracy.[/quote]
Sorry, but calling flat out BS on that one, on election day I was taking a visiting friend from London around the Palace Museum. It was crawling, literally crawling, with Chinese tour groups, sadly the same was true for Confucious Temple, Taipei 101 and other tourist sites we visited over election weekend, so I doubt very much that anything in the way of restrictions on commie tourists were really implemented by Beijing or anyone else.[/quote]
Well, I’m glad it was flat out BS! I wouldn’t want this to actually be true.
But… you sure they were actual Mainland tourists? Like, how sure? Categorically sure?
This is just fear mongering from the green camp, pure and simple. Fact is China is fine with the status quo and using economic and soft power to bring Taiwan in and will remain so at the end of Ma’s second term. There’s nothing special about the end of Ma’s second term that’ll make China want to say “ok, reunify now or else.” Of course when 2016 comes and go and nothing happens, the greenies will probably just come up with a new date, kind of like those people who are predicting apocalypse.[/quote]
Wait, that is exactly it… they are using economic and soft power (e.g. pandas) to bring Taiwan in. And it’s working…
[quote=“Mucha Man”]I have already stated I think the implications for this election were minor, though certainly real. And I never once said anything about being bad for the DPP.
I think this is a issue more for city and legislative elections as you have people living in the city and not having their interests being represented. Yet as I stated they are often paying more taxes than the property owners. Talk about a skewed system.[/quote]
The system really is skewed… and in many countries, it’s skewed towards home ownership, landlords, property owners, and the merchant class.
What a lot of people don’t understand is that business people tend to favour the status quo, because it is in the status quo that they are making money. They also tend to favour changes which they perceive will allow them to make even more money… and in Taiwan’s case, that is the KMT option.
In Hong Kong, for example, most, if not all, of the former colony’s major business leaders supported reunification with China. And they were against turning Hong Kong into a more socialist place, because of the possible tax implications. In America, big business is more often than not pro-Republican (i.e. right-wing) - are they not?
Speaking of business leaders and monied persons, I also question the reasons for keeping this ridiculous method of voting. Where I’m from, we can vote online (or by proxy) already… which means that, yes, voting in Canadian elections is no more inconvenient than logging into Facebook. “But, if rich tycoons can afford to fly back, why can’t you?” Well, I don’t currently make as much as a rich tycoon, you see…
Does not this voting system whereby only overseas rich tycoons (and not overseas regular persons) can afford to vote, mean that those who support the status quo would be more likely to come back to cast their ballot? The rich tycoon has benefited from the status quo in the past (obviously), and have a great interest in seeing it continued.
If you believe in Democracy, then it should be one vote for one person, regardless of that person’s social status, background, or ability to pay NT$1,500 to take the high-speed rail back down South, when for them a $100 meal is a luxury.
In closing, I don’t mind the status quo - it’s certainly more welcome than the unification option - but I still say, Japanese tourists are a tad more charming than Chinese tourists.
[quote=“shawn_c”][quote=“plasmatron”][quote=“shawn_c”]
- China stopped allowing tourists to come to Taiwan in the weeks up to the election, probably for two reasons. The first reason is so that “Taishang” (Taiwanese businessmen conducting business in China) would have flights to get back and vote Blue. The other reason being that they didn’t want their people to see democracy in action… although, that’s blatant, it’s no conspiracy.[/quote]
Sorry, but calling flat out BS on that one, on election day I was taking a visiting friend from London around the Palace Museum. It was crawling, literally crawling, with Chinese tour groups, sadly the same was true for Confucious Temple, Taipei 101 and other tourist sites we visited over election weekend, so I doubt very much that anything in the way of restrictions on commie tourists were really implemented by Beijing or anyone else.[/quote]
Well, I’m glad it was flat out BS! I wouldn’t want this to actually be true.
But… you sure they were actual Mainland tourists? Like, how sure? Categorically sure?[/quote]
100% categorically sure. Faux leather bomber jacket, polyester suit pants and cheap dress shoes sure. Northern China million words a second Beijing drawl and /or Shanghainese sure. Group thinking, tour flag following, thoroughfare blocking, queue jumping, rule disregarding sure. Even the friend I was showing around on his first ever visit to Asia could correctly identify the smaller, quieter, better behaved and more sophisticated Japanese and Korean tour groups from the Chinese ones after I pointed out the telltale glaring differences, and I’ve spent enough time in China and China bound departure lounges the world over to know at 1000 paces with my eyes shut, unfortunately.
[quote=“cfimages”][quote=“Cueball”]
There’s some info I’m not sure on/forgotten so - i) How long does it take to change where one’s registered to vote? ii) Are there any restrictions on doing so? iii) When was the date announced.
[/quote]
i) Not sure exactly, but when my wife changed her registration from Taichung to Taipei county before we got married it didn’t take her much more than a few minutes (not including waiting in line time).
ii)No idea but I can’t see why there would be.
iii)If I remember correctly, it was announced last summer.[/quote]
It’s quite difficult to change Hukou unless you are a property owner or have consent of the landlord you are renting from.
Not really an issue for most though as home ownership rate is 85% of thereabouts.[/quote]
Not had your morning coffee? The 85%, even if true, refers to families obviously not individuals. No one really knows exactly how many individuals are unregistered in Taipei for example because they, well, aren’t registered. So even if 85% of registered individuals have their own homes, there could be hundreds of thousands who are living in the city, renting, and not having household registration.
[/quote]
When you say unregistered, do you mean no registration at all (meaning they are ineligible to vote anywhere) or unregistered where they live but registered elsewhere?[/quote]
Unregistered where they live. Like my wife, who has to return to Taoyuan to vote where we own an apartment despite living in New Taipei. Someone may well have household registration in Ktown and live in Taipei in an apartment where the landlord does not want him to register (because as taffy says, then the landlord has to declare the rent as income). His family back in Ktown may even own their own house.[/quote]
Ok. Legally speaking, there’s no reason for someone not to change their registration. In practice it may not be so easy, but if the renter is benefiting by lower rent, then I don’t see they really have a right to complain about inconvenience. It would only be a valid complaint, IMO, if the law prevented people from changing their hukou.[/quote]
It’s a valid complaint because some people are effectively disenfranchised (especially in city elections) and landlords don’t have to declare extra income. So the government gets lower taxes, and a million people or so, according to Commonwealth Magazine, have such declared low income (because it’s all from rent) that they actually enjoy subsidies on their health insurance, among other benefits.
How’s them apples? In many cases the renter then (who can’t vote in city elections) will be subsidizing his landlord’s health insurance as the renter will be paying full taxes on his income while the landlord pays nothing.
It’s a crazy system.[/quote]
Yes it’s very unfair against pay as you earn workers who are not ALLOWED to hide income while property owners can openly use false valuations for tax or just not delcare rental income and stock trading has no transaction and very little capital gains tax. It’s a pretty extreme capitalist society here, if workers ever thought about it they could force change but it seems everybody thinks they will be a big property owner or stock millionaire someday.
Civil servants were bought off with special savings rate, special tax rate, benefits and pensions.
[quote=“headhonchoII”]
It’s quite difficult to change Hukou unless you are a property owner or have consent of the landlord you are renting from.[/quote]
My co-worker, who is a dual US/Taiwan citizen. She was sent to Taiwan by her company a couple of years ago. She was lucky(or not, depending on your point of view) and her company made her stay at the Grand Hyatt Taipei for the entire 10 and half months.
Prior to moving to the US as a child, her family’s “houko” was in Kaohsiung. When she was living in Taipei, she was able to move it to Taipei City by using the Grand Hyatt’s address as her home address.
[quote=“FurTrader”][quote=“headhonchoII”]
It’s quite difficult to change Hukou unless you are a property owner or have consent of the landlord you are renting from.[/quote]
My co-worker, who is a dual US/Taiwan citizen. She was sent to Taiwan by her company a couple of years ago. She was lucky(or not, depending on your point of view) and her company made her stay at the Grand Hyatt Taipei for the entire 10 and half months.
Prior to moving to the US as a child, her family’s “houko” was in Kaohsiung. When she was living in Taipei, she was able to move it to Taipei City by using the Grand Hyatt’s address as her home address.[/quote]
There are plenty of ways to move one’s “houko” in Taiwan. Just rent a super-al-cheapo NT$1500/month apartment… 
Do these super cheap “apartments” have street addresses.
[quote=“plasmatron”][quote=“shawn_c”][quote=“plasmatron”][quote=“shawn_c”]
- China stopped allowing tourists to come to Taiwan in the weeks up to the election, probably for two reasons. The first reason is so that “Taishang” (Taiwanese businessmen conducting business in China) would have flights to get back and vote Blue. The other reason being that they didn’t want their people to see democracy in action… although, that’s blatant, it’s no conspiracy.[/quote]
Sorry, but calling flat out BS on that one, on election day I was taking a visiting friend from London around the Palace Museum. It was crawling, literally crawling, with Chinese tour groups, sadly the same was true for Confucious Temple, Taipei 101 and other tourist sites we visited over election weekend, so I doubt very much that anything in the way of restrictions on commie tourists were really implemented by Beijing or anyone else.[/quote]
Well, I’m glad it was flat out BS! I wouldn’t want this to actually be true.
But… you sure they were actual Mainland tourists? Like, how sure? Categorically sure?[/quote]
100% categorically sure. Faux leather bomber jacket, polyester suit pants and cheap dress shoes sure. Northern China million words a second Beijing drawl and /or Shanghainese sure. Group thinking, tour flag following, thoroughfare blocking, queue jumping, rule disregarding sure. Even the friend I was showing around on his first ever visit to Asia could correctly identify the smaller, quieter, better behaved and more sophisticated Japanese and Korean tour groups from the Chinese ones after I pointed out the telltale glaring differences, and I’ve spent enough time in China and China bound departure lounges the world over to know at 1000 paces with my eyes shut, unfortunately.[/quote]
[quote]Many tourist attractions, including Alishan, Sun Moon Lake, the National Palace Museum, Chiang Kai-shek Memorial Hall, Shilin Night Market, and Yehliu have been seeing [color=#000080]fewer visitors from China because the Taiwan Affairs Office has halted approval for[/color] professional exchanges in Taiwan as well as [color=#000080]most tourism applications, according to Hsu Gao-ching (許高慶), secretary-general of the Travel Agent Association of R.O.C. Taiwan /color.
Only Thousands at
Popular Sites
According to the headcount of the popular attractions for Chinese tourists on the Tourism Bureau’s official website, only 1,204 Chinese tourists had visited the National Palace Museum yesterday, while only 1,664 visited the Sun Moon Lake.
[color=#000080]Most of the Chinese tourists Taiwan currently sees had applied to visit a while back, Hsu said. Because the Chinese officials have halted approving the current applications, the number of tourists in Taiwan has been halved.[/color][/quote]–“Heated election fever cools Chinese tourism,” China Post, January 14, 2012
Do these super cheap “apartments” have street addresses.[/quote]
yes, but they are located in very seedy parts of Taipei… but that shouldn’t be any cause for concern, if “houko” is the sole reason for renting such places. 