Charlie Wilson's War -- Good, Bad, or Ugly?

I just saw Charlie Wilson’s war this weekend and it’s a terrific flick. I havent had the pleasure of meeting the real Congressman who helped support the Afghan rebels but Tom Hank’s rendition seems real.

The moral is you can do good (help Afghans throw off Soviet Oppression) and have fun (Congressman Wilson is a bachelor in DC) at the same time. However, have to stick with the program otherwise the Afghan Mujahadeen can morph into something not so nice.

Very glad to be in Taiwan, one of the few places on this planet (except China) where violent radical islam has a hard time taking root.

ajax -
Some where on here is a thread titled “What are you watching”
I briefly mentioned this movie on there, followed by the usual pop-up pundits comments.
I share most of your sentiments regarding the movie and Hanks role. However, as I mentioned there…the movie was not a documentary. Not that I believe you think it is…but more to accentuate that some cinematic liberties were taken in making the movie. As is to be expected.
For the most part the movie is pretty good in its depiction on several levels of the Afghan rebel support progs during the mid-80’s. There were a lot of things that went on that had they put in the movie…no one would have believed it.
A fun movie indeed…it helps to have a bit of background knowledge of whats…then a lot of the dialogue is really chuckle inducing.

the sad part is that the US didn’t follow through and Saddam eventually took power…

Is it possible that the US can actually learn from it’s mistakes and stay in Iraq until a decent govt. is established that will not require US intervention in another 20 years…

Hopefully with the new US pres. we will see.

And yes…great flick.

I saw a brief interview with the real Charlie Wilson on cable when they were promoting the movie. Tom Hanks looks and acts completely different than the real man. And the real millionairess played by Julia Roberts…well, let’s just say that I’d rather see Julia.

[quote=“spiritguide”]the sad part is that the US didn’t follow through and Saddam eventually took power…[/quote]Ahh…this is about the situation of the USSR invasion and occupation of Afghanistan. Circa 1985 or so. Nothing to do with Saddam in this movie or story. At that point in time Saddam Hussein was an ally of the US in the mid east.

[quote=“spiritguide”]Is it possible that the US can actually learn from it’s mistakes and stay in Iraq until a decent govt. is established that will not require US intervention in another 20 years…[/quote] Is this a rhetorical question? What does this have to do with a movie about Charlie Wilson and his support of the Afghan rebels fighting the Soviet occupation of their country? I fail to see the relevance here.

[quote=“spiritguide”]Hopefully with the new US pres. we will see.[/quote]Well…‘we’ will see something. It remains to be ‘seen’ what that will be.

[quote=“spiritguide”]tAnd yes…great flick.[/quote]Very entertaining movie.

[quote=“spiritguide”]I saw a brief interview with the real Charlie Wilson on cable when they were promoting the movie. Tom Hanks looks and acts completely different than the real man. And the real millionairess played by Julia Roberts…well, let’s just say that I’d rather see Julia.[/quote]Hollywood does that ya know…

(last bit added - didn’t notice it in original post)

It was a good movie indeed, but what a pity they didn’t use it to evaluate the wisdom of that particular intervention? Another obvious issue is whether it really is right for a sole US senator to intervene so ruthlessly in a sovereign nation. Recall if you will that the onset of the Afghan war was a result of the incumbent Communist government’s repeated requests for Soviet support to assist it put down a very violent insurrection by camel fucking neanderthals keen to keep women enslaved and turn back the clock to the dark ages.

Backing the Mujahadeen was a knee jerk cold war blunder - Commie = bad, anyone against them = good, and only one of oh so many. The repercussions of these fuck ups are being felt rather strongly to this day. Brilliant! The day those stingers started hitting Soviet helicopters was the day the lights went out in Afghanistan and the clock started winding back. Look what we got in Ivan’s place!

HG

HGC -
The USSR invaded Afghanistan and put their man into power after NKVD/Spetnatz assassinated the legislatures in office.
It really is proper to observe and use the correct sequence of events.

Do you really want to re-write history to fit your pipe dream scenario?

As the saying goes…That dog just won’t hunt.

Invaded might suit your historical point of reference, dude, but that’s not what happened. They were invited by the then governmnet. Of course if it was otherwise you would demonstrate that “fact,” right.

HG

When’s the Iran-Contra movie coming out? Can’t wait to see Ben Afleck as Ollie North. Johnny Depp as Ortega. Abe Vigoda as Ronnie Reagan.

HGC -
Invited by “their” man, the “then government” you refer to, after the NKVD/Spetnatz assassinated the legislatures in office.

Just keepin’ it real Homey…:sunglasses:

Homey, is that slang for dishonest? I mean I am presuming you know what you are talking about here, so I have to presume you are being deliberately dishonest. Invade, invited, bah! What about the outcome? I note you’re not so keen on embracing that aspect of my post. I guess because it speaks for itself.

HG

[quote=“Kenneth Turan, Los Angeles Times”]“CHARLIE Wilson’s War” is an anachronism, the wrong movie at the wrong time. Not only does it tell its tale in a style that feels dated and artificial, the story itself focuses on events that history has overtaken. The moving finger has written and moved on, and not even the combined star power of Tom Hanks, Julia Roberts, writer Aaron Sorkin and director Mike Nichols can do anything about it.

Based on the bestselling book by George Crile, “Charlie Wilson’s War” does tell a most unusual 1980s true story. It relates how Wilson, a pleasure-loving congressman from Texas (Hanks), joined forces with a wealthy and reactionary socialite (Roberts) and a grumpy CIA operative (Philip Seymour Hoffman) to use billions of dollars in U.S. and Saudi aid to arm Afghan mujahedin, or “freedom fighters,” and oust the invading Soviet Union.

Though historians argue over how fatally that loss weakened an already weak USSR, it’s indisputable that the shadow of Sept. 11 now hangs over that erstwhile accomplishment like, to borrow an image from our secretary of State, a mushroom cloud.

For the mujahedin became the Taliban, Osama bin Laden and the Sept. 11 plotters, and, as Crile writes in his epilogue, “great events have unintended consequences. What no one involved anticipated was that it might be dangerous to awaken the dormant dreams and visions of Islam. Which is, of course, exactly what happened.” So what is intended as a gleeful cinematic tribute to American can-do plays instead as an unintentionally sobering narrative of American shouldn’t-have.

In theory, of course, “Charlie Wilson’s War” could have survived and prospered in the post-9/11 world, just as Crile’s book did. But as directed by Nichols from a script by Sorkin (“A Few Good Men” and TV’s “The West Wing”), the film undercuts its aims with a play-acting artificiality that is more wearisome than entertaining.

Part of the problem is that the film is not always well-served by its stars, illustrious though they are. It’s a tribute to Hanks’ acting skills that he does a creditable job as a high-living, wheeler-dealer congressman who just happens to sit at the funding intersection of the State Department and the CIA. But the reality is that casting him as a natural conniver and rogue, “a man of many character flaws,” according to no less an authority than the president of Pakistan, is not the best way to go.

The same is true for Julia Roberts, who does not play to her strengths as the abrasive, arrogant dragon lady Joanne Herring, a right wing Texas zealot who helps persuade Wilson to fund the Afghans. The congressman may view Herring as “the sexiest woman ever,” but few viewers will agree.

The only actor who comes off well, as he always does, is the redoubtable Hoffman. He gets the best of Sorkin’s dialogue as Gust Avrakotos, a gruff, hot-tempered CIA career officer everyone avoids who bonds with Wilson over their mutual desire to kill as many communists as possible.

Overall, however, “Charlie Wilson’s War” is glib rather than witty, one of those films that comes off as being more pleased with itself than it has a right to be. It also suffers from being not all of a piece, with mismatched elements struggling to cohere.

What is one to make, in the midst of the film’s otherwise nonstop banter, of deadly earnest scenes in a refugee camp in Pakistan, complete with children whose arms have been blown off? These moments are supposed to show us how Wilson got religion about Afghanistan’s plight, but their tone is too at variance with the rest of the picture to be effective. Similarly, the film’s leering, voyeuristic view of sexuality (Emily Blunt is particularly victimized as a Wilson girlfriend) seems as antiquated as the rest of the production.

Though “Charlie Wilson’s War” makes a few attempts near the conclusion to reference the chaos that is to come, they are too little and too late. Harder to deal with is the fact that, because Muslims around the world, as Crile notes, thought the victory in Afghanistan was the work of Allah, “we set in motion the spirit of jihad and the belief in our surrogate soldiers that, having brought down one superpower, they could just as easily take on another.” The rest, as they say, is history.[/quote]

Well!..Kenny didn’t like it!

[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]Homey, is that slang for dishonest?[/quote]Jeez…knock off the ‘Victim’ play. [quote=“Huang Guang Chen”] I mean I am presuming you know what you are talking about here,[/quote]Safe presumption.[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]"… so I have to presume you are being deliberately dishonest.[/quote]Your logic pattern here is …suspect …to put it nicely[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”] Invade, invited, bah! What about the outcome?[/quote]A segue like a record skipping when a drunk stumbles into the turntable.[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]I note you’re not so keen on embracing that aspect of my post.[/quote]What? You didn’t notice the Russians leaving the country?[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”] I guess because it speaks for itself.[/quote]Hanging on by your finger nails on this path, eh?(Canadian suffix added to so as to display no aggressive intentions in post)

[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]HG[/quote]Yes you are…although its usually HGC

I can only presume you were more capable of hitting targets at some point in your life. But now that you’ve mastered the quote function, perhaps you;d care to provide some evidence on your basic assertion?

Soviets were invited several times, dude, eventually they arrived. Russians have long felt Afghanistan to be a part of their legitimate sphere of influence. But you know, you really should try reading some history yourself before you attempt to parrot the cold war revisionists.

HG

Hey, who is this Kenneth Turan to trash a very good film. A) He has no idea what he is talking about. B) He can’t write well. C) He turned out a poorly written and sloppy review, perhaps because he is totally underpaid by the L.A. Times new management.

Hey Bones, is abe vigoda still alive?

Sometimes.

I finally saw this movie. I liked it in spite of the fact that Julia Roberts makes me want to vomit. The DVD has a nice little documentary with the real Charlie Wilson.