As far as I understand, once they took office it’s no longer considered “political contribution” when money is presented.
There is no defending CSB. The last thing DPP (party of the poor people) want to be associated with is a bunch of elitist banking families.[/quote]
No defending a man who has now been acquitted TWICE??!!
How about no defending the KMTs attitude toward this entire kangaroo court process and its current reaction to the more recent acquittal?
I believe he is guilty as much as Al Capone was guilty of mafia murders. If you think there is no bribery and embazzlement involved with 二次金改案, then please state your reasons as well. Just as Al Capone couldn’t be convicted of murder in the court of law, CSB was ruled not guilty (of 二次金改案) by the first judge due to technicalities of the game. [/quote]
If the law as interpreted by the Ministry of Justice is such that a public official is not guilty of bribery if the case does not involved official duties then Chen is not guilty. Yes, of course I think that is a ridiculous interpretation. But hey, I’ve been complaining about this law for a few years now as it was being used to protect powerful businessmen from prosecution. You realize that the people who bribed Chen with the NT600 million were not being charged? How on earth is this fair? It isn’t and as long as the law remains the way it is then Chen should not be found guilty.
Do I want the law changed? Of course. And for it to be applied widely. You’re just another foolish westerner who thinks that putting Chen away means something for law and order here. It doesn’t.
Source? I doubt this very much as James Soong certainly held positions when he was receiving “campaign contributions” that he squirreled away. And what about people running for re-election?
Nor the people who bribed him but they’ve come out of this quite well. I want to see the system change, not one man scapegoated.
As far as I understand, once they took office it’s no longer considered “political contribution” when money is presented.
There is no defending CSB. The last thing DPP (party of the poor people) want to be associated with is a bunch of elitist banking families.[/quote]
No defending a man who has now been acquitted TWICE??!!
How about no defending the KMTs attitude toward this entire kangaroo court process and its current reaction to the more recent acquittal?[/quote]I have to agree here. CSB has never been linked to a single activity of even moving money. Nothing. Zilch. So to say that there is no defending him is a weird statement-there is nothing but defending him from a legal standpoint. He didn’t do anything illegal, and AFAIK, he has not personally been linked to even doing anything wrong.
MM is right, the laws need changed, but until they are, this is the way it is. People play according to the rules before them. That Ma wants to talk about the spirit of the law only as it applies to CSB is hysterically stupid. If that same “spirit” were applied to him, no doubt he would also be in jail, along with Soong and many of their buddies. Why do you think the actual law has not been changed to reflect the reasons YOU think CSB should be in jail? It’s because most of the people writing the laws do not want this type of reform.
This has been called nothing but politics by legal scholars from all over the globe. AFAIK, not one noted scholar has come out to defend this mess.
Is there a legal status in Taiwan of being “not guilty”?
I mean everyone is saying he is not guilty, but does that equal innocent under ROC law? you know the … innocent until proven guilty… idea
Or do they have some system like in Scotland where you have guilty, not guilty and not proven?
As far as I understand, once they took office it’s no longer considered “political contribution” when money is presented.
There is no defending CSB. The last thing DPP (party of the poor people) want to be associated with is a bunch of elitist banking families.[/quote]
No defending a man who has now been acquitted TWICE??!!
[/quote]
one out of three judges “acquitted” him.
CSB’s son moved the money, so I guess you can say CSB was not directly “linked” to the money laundering process.
[quote=“TaipeiD”][quote]I have to agree here. CSB has never been linked to a single activity of even moving money. [/quote]CSB’s son moved the money, so I guess you can say CSB was not directly “linked” to the money laundering process.[/quote]Why “linked” in quotes? He wasn’t linked to any of it in any way. There was not one piece of evidence that he knew anything about how much money was raised, that anyone was raising money, or that that money was being moved overseas. Nothing. For me, to even discuss his morals, based on what I have read about the case, is a bit unfair. I have never seen any evidence that the guy did anything wrong. If someone has a link to real evidence, I would love to read about it. Everyone who has vilified him is basing it on speculation.
And where did you see that his son moved money? I remember his wife admitting it was her who moved it, and used the children’s names to move some of it.
[quote=“suiyuan31”]
And where did you see that his son moved money? [/quote]
what are you driving at? 
I never personally see CSB’s son move the money.
[quote=“TaipeiD”][quote=“suiyuan31”]
And where did you see that his son moved money? [/quote]
what are you driving at?
I never personally see CSB’s son move the money. [/quote]
Meaning…did you see it on TV? Or did you see it in the paper? 
Or did you see it in a dream that you mistook for reality?
Or, like so many people here, did you just assume it was true because you heard some pro KMT person say that they heard it on the news?
[quote=“suiyuan31”][quote=“TaipeiD”][quote=“suiyuan31”]
And where did you see that his son moved money? [/quote]
what are you driving at?
I never personally see CSB’s son move the money. [/quote]
Meaning…did you see it on TV? Or did you see it in the paper?
Or did you see it in a dream that you mistook for reality?
Or, like so many people here, did you just assume it was true because you heard some pro KMT person say that they heard it on the news?[/quote]
Are you new on this island? :roflmao:
We heard it from his son himself.
“前總統陳水扁兒子陳致中6日下午主動出面說明扁家海外帳戶的問題，他再次強調該簽的文件都簽了”
news.cts.com.tw/nownews/society/ … 44489.html
chinareviewnews.com/doc/1012 … 0415220226
OK, cool…I’m not new, but had not followed that piece of it. Thanks for the links…it’s officially the first sign that you actually know any facts about the case. Strange that you pull out this one little part of what I wrote…you didn’t even attempt to answer the other questions.
Are you new to rules of law? So again, I ask…do you know of any evidence that links CSB to any of this? Or any that even “links” him to it?
[quote=“TaipeiD”][quote=“suiyuan31”][quote=“TaipeiD”][quote=“suiyuan31”]
And where did you see that his son moved money? [/quote]
what are you driving at?
I never personally see CSB’s son move the money. [/quote]
Meaning…did you see it on TV? Or did you see it in the paper?
Or did you see it in a dream that you mistook for reality?
Or, like so many people here, did you just assume it was true because you heard some pro KMT person say that they heard it on the news?[/quote]
Are you new on this island? :roflmao:
We heard it from his son himself.
“前總統陳水扁兒子陳致中6日下午主動出面說明扁家海外帳戶的問題，他再次強調該簽的文件都簽了”
news.cts.com.tw/nownews/society/ … 44489.html
chinareviewnews.com/doc/1012 … 0415220226[/quote]
suiyuan31, this is my stance on this issue, as posted on page 6. thank you for your interest.
I believe he is guilty as much as Al Capone was guilty of mafia murders.[/quote]
The Al Capone analogy is silly…Capone used violence to keep witnesses quiet/dead. There was never any evidence against CSB. You say there is no defending him…which is 100% true as there was nothing for him to defend himself against, except an all out political war.
Do I think his hands are clean? No. But I’m willing to admit that is 100% speculation on my part and there is nothing to prove it.
suiyuan31, this is my stance on this issue, as posted on page 6. thank you for your interest.
I believe he is guilty as much as Al Capone was guilty of mafia murders.[/quote]
Lets see? Did CSB make a living from his Presidential Salary alone or did he get “contributions”? No and Yes . check
Did he squirrel away at least some of these “contributions” in foreign lands? check.
The question is whether these contributions are legal.
Another is whether its illegal to squirrel away these funds abroad.
Do people honestly expect TW Presidents to live on their salary alone?
Should TW Presidents be given a more generous salary (they already get paid more then double the US President) to “avoid taking contributions” (like Singapore claims they do)?
Should political contributors simply promise “speaking tours” after retirement like they do in the USA. Retired US presidents make some serious coin from this, but alas TW Presidents? Not many speaking tours (if any).
CSB cut his own salary because he though the one million USD that LTH had paid himself so he wouldn’t be tempted by outside sources was too high. CSB already knew he’d do it for less money.
If that’s not the KMT joke it should be.
Of course the KMT joke would be if you care about the salary that much, I’ve got you a paid position.
using the word “never” is a bit strong here, especially when you admittedly don’t follow this issue enough to even know who moved the money.
using the word “never” is a bit strong here, especially when you admittedly don’t follow this issue enough to even know who moved the money.[/quote]Again, I have been open to anyone providing any of that evidence. I would be more than willing to admit I’m wrong if you can provide anything other than speculation. Read my posts-I’m not claiming that I am 100% correct because it was a big case…I remain open to possibilities and I’m always open to someone providing me with information I don’t know about. You haven’t done that, just given baseless opinions . . . a trend, I might add.
a trend of proving you wrong, you mean?
[quote=“TaipeiD”][quote=“suiyuan31”]
And where did you see that his son moved money? [/quote]
We heard it from his son himself.
“前總統陳水扁兒子陳致中6日下午主動出面說明扁家海外帳戶的問題，他再次強調該簽的文件都簽了”
news.cts.com.tw/nownews/society/ … 44489.html
chinareviewnews.com/doc/1012 … 0415220226[/quote]
are you suggesting his son “moved” (i.e. laundered) the money into Swiss bank accounts via foreign corporate entities, without him knowing anything about it?
what does it take to “link” someone to “moving” money, or shall we ask does he have to be caught on videotape shoving bags o’ money into his car under broad daylight?
a trend of proving you wrong, you mean?[/quote]You didn’t prove me wrong, you just answered my question. I asked a simple question: where did you see that piece of news. I never claimed full knowledge, otherwise I wouldn’t have asked. You provided the link…thanks. The last thing I had seen was CSB’s wife on the news claiming it was all her doing. The trend I am talking about is you making claims that you can’t back up…ie, CSB is guilty, MLK Jr. was a Republican, or Bill Clinton caused the internet bubble to burst.
[quote=“TaipeiD”]are you suggesting his son “moved” (i.e. laundered) the money into Swiss bank accounts via foreign corporate entities, without him knowing anything about it?
what does it take to “link” someone to “moving” money, or shall we ask does he have to be caught on videotape shoving bags o’ money into his car under broad daylight?[/quote]I am not suggesting what he did or didn’t do…I am suggesting that there is no evidence, and without evidence, how can the guy be thrown in jail? You’re asking me to prove he didn’t know, which is the wrong question. The government has to prove he did know. They can’t. Think carefully about the ramifications of what you are suggesting be done in this case-maybe Ma’s wife should be in jail for what he was accused of…just cuz, you know…she should have known what his accountant was doing.
MM said it best: [quote=“Mucha Man”]You’re just another foolish westerner who thinks that putting Chen away means something for law and order here. It doesn’t.[/quote]
[quote=“suiyuan31”]I am suggesting that there is no evidence, and without evidence, how can the guy be thrown in jail?
[/quote]
Multiple charges against CSB must have been too confusing for you to comprehend. He was already found guilty twice on one of the bribery charges (life in prison vs 20 years term).
I ask you again. If there is no evidence, how can CSB be convicted twice on the same charge by two separate courts ?
I kindly suggest you do some more research before mouthing off further.
big5.cri.cn/gate/big5/gb1.cri.cn … 883401.htm
hk.huaxia.com/thpl/sdfx/1932197.html
[quote=“TaipeiD”][quote=“suiyuan31”]I am suggesting that there is no evidence, and without evidence, how can the guy be thrown in jail?
[/quote]
Multiple charges against CSB must have been too confusing for you to comprehend. He was already found guilty twice on one of the bribery charges (life in prison vs 20 years term).
I ask you again. If there is no evidence, how can CSB be convicted twice on the same charge by two separate courts ?
I kindly suggest you do some more research before mouthing off further.
big5.cri.cn/gate/big5/gb1.cri.cn … 883401.htm
hk.huaxia.com/thpl/sdfx/1932197.html[/quote]
Yes, he has been found guilty of other bribery charges, and forgery. This was the biggie, and interestingly he has not been found guilty.
The life sentence was largely for embezzling government funds. When he was found not guilty of that in a second trial his sentence was reduced.