First of all congrats, secondly, yes what you saw looks traumatic but it’s possibly it was either that or a emergency C-section. Not being there I can only guess at what happened and it could have been that things started to go wrong, baby not coming out, strange orientation, having issues and at that point because of the baby being too low already then a C-sections may not have even an available option anymore. At that point it becomes ‘get baby out at all costs’ and some of those costs can be breaking a collar bone.
Sucks to be OBGYN doctor nowadays with the prevalence of older maternal pregnancies. It’s one of the least popular specialty to go into when I was in medical school. Medial liability aside, unstable work hours, stress (you never know what you will be catching , dawn syndrome fetus, difficult labor…when being called into labor and deliver room), too many on call evenings is also disastrous to health. OBGYN doctors tend to age faster and die younger than their colleagues and aren’t compensated well for their sacrifices either.
From a safety perspective for fetus and quality of life for OBGYN doctors, C section should be encouraged. I too would avoid vaginal delivery if I were an OBGYN. It is just not worth the risk especially under Taiwan’s National Health Insurance reimbursement DRG rates
“Don’t be a doctor” seems like the correct answer to those problems.
I know several doctors doing PGY at the moment and it’s still the least popular specialty. At least one of the least popular. The unpopularity of OBGYN transcends time and boundaries.
Surely not as unpopular as proctologist?
5 posts were split to a new topic: What are the least popular medical specializations?
Thank you all for your support. It always feels good to come here and talk to fellow forumosans. It’s the only place you can let out your frustrations and where’s there’s always a sympathetic ear to listen.
Just wanted to update everyone on the current status :
Thank God, the baby has finally started raising her right arm and moving it almost normally (though still less active than the left one). We still try to restrict it at night so she can heal better. This has made a big difference to how we feel now.
I tried to reach out to some local lawyers online. None weren’t interested.
I talked to my boss who is a law graduate (though not practicing). He advised me not to do it, even if I could find a willing lawyer. He basically said that the hospitals have a lot of resources and they will do whatever it takes to protect themselves. Even if the doctor / nurse did make a mistake, they will never admit it.
I had an opportunity to confront the doctor few days ago (this was 2 weeks after the delivery). He looked really worried to see me. Said he was sorry to hear about the baby’s shoulder (he already knew). When I asked him why it happened, he said he didn’t know why it happened.
Few days ago I setup an appointment with leading orthopedic doctor in KMU, who also happens to be the Dean. Following that I got a strange call from one of the delivery nurses inquiring about why I had set that appointment and asking about the baby’s arm.
Based on the encounter with the doctor and the call from the delivery nurse, I am really starting to feel that they are worried they really did do something wrong. Anyways, as everyone here has rightly pointed out, first and foremost I will focus on the baby and her health. Once it’s clear to me that her shoulder is okay and there’s no nerve damage, then perhaps I will follow the advice from @lotus425 and at least file a complaint with the hospital administrator. It doesn’t matter if they act on it or not. At least I should inconvenience them.
glad to hear this.
I think that is his honest reply.
they may be worried not that they did something wrong, but that you would file a suit or complaint, which surely somehow bother them even if they did nothing wrong, as you intent.
I think that kind of complaints may not be rare for their departments. Though pregnancy and delivery are highly dengarous and mothers and babies could die without anyone’s fault or negligence, many people expect no negative outcom but the happiest moment. So, when something went wrong, it must be hard to accept, and people may tend to think doctors did something wrong.
Just wanted to offer another update. While the hosptial had only set up an orthopedic appointment after a month to recheck her clavicle fracture. I decided to get a 2nd opinion and not wait another 2 weeks.
I setup an appointment with one of the top orthopedic doctors (as described to me by some Taiwanese colleagues). The idea was just to get 2nd opinion on the clavicle. The good news is the doctor said it’s recovering well and there is no nerve damage, but before even looking at the clavicle, he immediately identified that the baby’s hips were also dislocated, presumably during child birth (according to the doctor).
She now has to wear these.
So other than causing her two injuries during birth, they even failed to identify one of the them. If I hadn’t setup this appointment I would never have even known that her hips were dislocated, which would have delayed treatment.
I have decided to go back to my original plan of suing them.
I have already sent an official complaint to the KMUH administrator. I have also emailed these guys (https://www.thrf.org.tw/page/613), and sent requests to a few lawyers in Kaohsiung area. I don’t know if anyone will care or even answer me, but I will try nevertheless.
Overall feeling a bit helpless. So if there’s anyone with good connections in Kaohsiung who can offer some help/advice, I’d appreciate it.
That sounds pretty crazy. Get it documented obviously.
Reading this… Has broken my heart. I have nothing to add except I hope your daughter recovers
I had no idea any of this was a thing until I read this so I appreciate the education
just as a note, this could happen to 1 to 1000 babies, and many are discovered by screening during the well baby exam before 3 months. So, the doctors at the birth place didn’t find it doesn’t immediately mean that there is a negligence.
Hope your baby get well soon.
It could be possible that both these conditions occurring at once could be legally significant though. Any idea what the concurrent stats are @tando? Not sure where you’re getting those stats. I would be looking into it definitely.
I can only suggest you to think twice before suing them. This kind of thing can take a while and the hospital will drag it as long as they can. Everytime you receive a notification on the case or contact your lawyer you’ll feel all the pain and suffering again.
Also, consider that you will have to spend some money (that you could spend on your family instead) without any guarantee of winning. There’s a reason why the lawyers you’ve contacted were not interested in the case.
Having said that, you have all my sympathy, whatever way to decide to act.
I wish your daughter a fast and full recovery.
You need to prove that both were caused by doctor’s negligence, which must be really hard.
I sincerely appreciate everyone’s comments and prayers for my daughter. This is my only sanctuary. I keep coming back to this page reading everyone’s comments over and over again, just to get some comfort. Because it’s nice to feel that someone is at least discussing this.
I can’t describe well, how I feel now. Just a lot of mental pain everytime I look at my daughter.
I know it’s possible that I am a total idiot and they didn’t nothing wrong but I can’t help it, seeing my daughter like this. I wish all of this hadn’t unfolded as it did.
I can imagine if after the birth the delivery doctor had just walked in and told me about the issues first hand and said, “hey we tried our best but it was unavoidable”. My reaction then would have been the opposite. The fact that I had to find out everything like this in steps and the lack of communication from the hospital and doctor has made me like this.
I know there’s a chance I will lose a lot more. But I am prepared to empty my bank account, if it will get me justice.
By the way, I finally got call from a lawyer (especially after mentioning the 2nd issue). I have an appointment for next week. He told me to go and pull all the medical records history from the hospital in printed form (ASAP). He said, though it’s illegal , it’s possible they might try to erase it or alter it to help their case ( especially since I made the mistake of emailing them - though I hope they haven’t read it yet ).
Another thing is that my Taiwanese boss, who previously strongly advised me against suing the hospital, after hearing about the hip dislocation and seeing the photos, has now said , “F$&k it, let’s sue them!”. & He said he going to help me.
The bottom line is that I will pull all her records (tomorrow morning)and hopefully the lawyer can later find some independent medical experts to review them to judge whether there was negligence involved or it was all natural and unavoidable.
I will let everyone know how it goes. Either way if I turn out to be a loser or a winner in the end, this will at least serve as a reference for others.
Happy to hear your daughter is recovering from birth trauma. You must understand that no body wanted this to happen. Could this be avoidable? Sure if the OBGYN doc chose to perform a Caesarian section rather than vaginal delivery. But no one can really see this coming due to fetus size, mother’s pelvic rim all being normal at the time of delivery. Another thing to consider is the fetal monitor reading which gauges the uterine contraction and fetal heart rate at the time of labor process. When fetal monitor demonstrates fetus is under stressful conditions (uterine contraction slows and fetal heart rate speeds up) OBGYN doctor must speed up the process to minimize complications. Hence a forcep or a head vacuum would be used (breaking the clavicle on purpose) to quickly deliver the fetus. You must remember a low APGAR score is a lose lose situation for everyone. This case could have been much worse if the OBGYN doctor couldn’t get the fetus out quickly. It is too late for C section once the head and neck are stuck at the pelvic rim (fetus may not make it if labor process is prolonged beyond safety measures).
If you choose to pursue this in the court of law you must understand what your goals are.
- To find out the truth at all cost? Does it really matter at this moment?
- To prove the OBGYN doc committed gross negligence ? That he is incompetent ? He did it on purpose with ill intent?
- To get revenge in terms of monetary compensation and causing headaches and sleepless nights for the OBGYN doc?
Being a physician with 17 years of practice both in Los Angeles and Taiwan, I can share with you some insight about what would happen if you pursue this matter further. The hospital will hold an arbitration meeting with you , the social worker, the OBGYN doc, and hospital administrators. They will review all the facts and express sincere regret for what happened to your daughter but will not admit any wrong doing nor apologize for this case. (Admittance of fault means they plead guilty in the court of law)
The hospital and OBGYN doctor are both covered by medical malpractice insurance (NT$2 million per case) and will not settle out of court because they will not admit to any wrong doing. Insurance company will not pay for penalty or damages unless the judge and the court system rule against the OBGYN team . The court procedure will take many years with chance of appeals . You and the OBGYN doctor will spend money hiring lawyers and precious time preparing and attending court appearance over the next few years. Your chance of winning is slim (The medical charting will likely indicate such birth trauma is unavoidable and an emergency necessity due to statistics of current medical literature). But you will cause many sleepless nights and headaches for the OBGYN doctor and his spouse.
Lawyers will play along and encourage you to sue for monetary gains. Do you personally hate this hospital and this OGYN doctor so much that you want to pursue this further? Put yourself in the OBGYN doctor’s shoe. How would you have reacted?
All doctors get sued during their career. During my years of practicing medicine I have heard and seen much worse scenarios . Sometimes bad things happen even with the best intentions. I could have just read your story and moved on. But I took the time to respond to you because I want you to understand a different perspective from an unbiased doctor. At the end of the day it is your call. Know your agenda ask your wife for advice and decide for yourself.
Karma, spirituality, and faith will show you the way.
I’m so sorry you and your family are going through this. Reading this thread, you are right about the lack of communication being a sign of this situation not being right. When it comes to my kids, my gut feeling is always right and I believe you are also right too. Honestly, I don’t have any faith in the justice system here but there are more good people here than bad. One of my friends’ daughter needed heart surgery at birth and his experience was very different from yours because the doctors were in constant contact.
You are smart to get her to other doctors. Wishing your baby girl a speedy recovery.
Or simply the best interests of his family. But to each their own, nice post.
I can’t imagine the frustration and helplessness you must feel thinking that your newborn daughter may have been harmed due to negligence on the part of the doctors. And the uncertainty around knowing whether her injuries could have been prevented. This is probably part of the reason why I don’t plan on having kids.
I don’t have any practical advice or insights, but I just wanted to say, stay strong, and I wish health and happiness for your daughter, you and your wife.