Child custody

Legal Legal - Divorce
21

[quote=“lulaluilu”]I am a foreigner and divorced my Taiwanese husband in Taiwan in 2009. The costs were my two kids whom he took full custody of. I didn’t ask for anything except that the kids be well taken care of (his family is rich). I am currently living out of the country. He remarried in 2011. Lately, he asked for my written/notarized consent to let his new wife legally adopt the kids, stating that in case of emergencies, it is best for everyone.

I am not entirely sure what are the implications whether I consent or not. Can anyone advise me? Thanks![/quote]
I’m not a lawyer and this is NOT legal advice.

But, I belive if you do that you give up your parental rights to the kids.

22

[quote=“lulaluilu”]I am a foreigner and divorced my Taiwanese husband in Taiwan in 2009. The costs were my two kids whom he took full custody of. I didn’t ask for anything except that the kids be well taken care of (his family is rich). I am currently living out of the country. He remarried in 2011. Lately, he asked for my written/notarized consent to let his new wife legally adopt the kids, stating that in case of emergencies, it is best for everyone.

I am not entirely sure what are the implications whether I consent or not. Can anyone advise me? Thanks![/quote]

I can’t advise you based on Taiwan law, but for the United States this action could have serious reprecussions for you.

In most States in America, the non-custodial parent (YOU) must give their consent for a step-parent to adopt their child. By giving his or her consent, the noncustodial parent gives up all rights and responsibilities, including child support, forever!

So, if you do not wish to have any contact or say in your child’s upbringing while they are minors, then you can go ahead and give your consent for your ex-spouse’s wife to adopt your children. However, they will no longer be considered your children in the eyes of the law and the earliest you could possibly have contact with them is after they become adults and if they wish to have contact with you.

In my opinion, your ex-husband is trying to bullshit you into giving up all rights to your children by giving you the “in case of emergencies, it’s best for everyone” story.

Here’s an example for you to consider. If your ex-husband died suddenly, you wouldn’t want custody of your children? If you allow your ex-spouse’s new wife to adopt your children and he died, then she would get custody of the children because they would be her children in the eyes of the law, not yours.

I recommend strongly that you do not allow this proposed adoption to move forward, unless you truly want nothing to do with your children.

At any rate, I recommend that you consult with a highly qualified Taiwanese attorney BEFORE proceeding with any action in order to find out how it would affect you in the long and short terms.

Best of luck

:bow:

23

[quote=“Howdoilivewithoutyou”].
MARRIAGE IS REALLY THE END OF LOVE, freedom, privacy, self esteem !!!
Is there anyway to know for sure that a mother can win the child custody ? Any tricks or requirements ?
Baby is less than 1 year old and both parents are TWs and both want the child.
The odds
#1-----one is rich one is penniless :
sadly mother has " nothing " no savings no income but is qualified for work and capable to earn decent income that can cover basic needs for both ;
thus will become a " working single mom + healthy retired widow mom as backup nanny"
Against a " full time jobless father + wealthy and retired in laws as backup nannies" that can provide much more than needed.
#2-----One is a smartass one is a dumbass :
Sadly mother is illiterate and unfamiliar with TW laws and history
for grew up abroad and returned just couple of years ago.
Against a super traditional family who has been around for centuries and
threats with being able to find and use people with power to favor the results in either ways , clean or dirty !
Please advice. Thanks.[/quote]

My instinct would be ‘run away and disappear’… but that’s not exactly legal.

24

Can anyone refer a lawyer that has experience in child custody cases between Taiwanese and foreigners?

25

Maybe ask a Taiwanese friend to help you check this website: pingluweb.com/

26

[quote=“lulaluilu”]I am a foreigner and divorced my Taiwanese husband in Taiwan in 2009. The costs were my two kids whom he took full custody of. I didn’t ask for anything except that the kids be well taken care of (his family is rich). I am currently living out of the country. He remarried in 2011. Lately, he asked for my written/notarized consent to let his new wife legally adopt the kids, stating that in case of emergencies, it is best for everyone.

I am not entirely sure what are the implications whether I consent or not. Can anyone advise me? Thanks![/quote]

Disclaimer: I may be wrong and your husband may only have the best intentions. My work experience tells me otherwise, so I advise you on the following. This is no legal consultation.

What strikes me the most is that by insisting on a notarised statement your husband will fulfil the formal requirements for his new wife to adopt your children. Your ex-husband and his new wife will be able to entirely exclude you from the upbringing of your children.

The legal minimum is the consent of the child’s (usually biological) parents. Your consent will come as a notarised statement. The legal basis for this is here: http://law.moj.gov.tw/eng/LawClass/LawSearchNo.aspx?PC=B0000001&DF=&SNo=1076.1

Once the formal requirements are met, the court will have to decide in the child’s interest. Since you have already given your written consent, do not live in Taiwan and your husband has a new family with his wife, the court will find it easy to approve the adoption. The legal basis for this is here: http://law.moj.gov.tw/eng/LawClass/LawSearchNo.aspx?PC=B0000001&DF=&SNo=1079.1

In my work experience Taiwanese people are very reluctant to enter into any written agreement, let alone have one witnessed by a notary public. “Pacta sunt servanda” is not a well established part of the local understanding of uprightness and honesty. Taiwanese generally only demand a high level of formal security when they see a way of gaining an absolute advantage over you.

Thus I recommend not to sign anything. Realistically, in a real emergency situation flexible approaches can be found and no hospital will let a child bleed out because the father is at work and the mother cannot be reached.

1 Like
27

I wonder if it would be a solution to sign a legal agreement between the local husband and foreign wife on child’s custody in case of a divorce prior the child is born? For example, the father-to-be agrees that the mother-to-be will always have the right to take part in the child’s life during the marriage as well as in case of a divorce.
I discussed with a local lawyer about this topic and he tried to convince me that it was a myth that foreign spouses lose their kids to local husbands/wives that court decides what’s in the best interest of the child…as expected. There must be a way to protect your child.
What do you think?

28

The rule is that the court is supposed to decide what is in the interest of the child. If the child is young and primarily speaks Mandarin and the mother is Taiwanese, the court almost always decides the best interest of the child is to be placed in the custody of the mother. There are of course cases where the mother loses custody because she is unemployed, has a criminal record, or works in a disfavored industry.

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29

Thank you for the reply. I guess the safest way for a foreign mother is still just to work hard and have enough savings on bank account, just in case.

30

What is the certification for “child custody”? That the child is listed under the guardian’s “hukou” (戶口) or ARC (局留證)? In that case, isn’t the foreigner at a disadvantage for having official custody (due to not being allowed to own a “hukou”)?

31

Endless story …

I want shared/joined custody for my 3 year old daughter. My tw wife strongly opposes this and wants sole custody.
Daughter will live together with my soon-to-be ex-wife and I will have visiting-rights once every fortnight.

My wife is blaming me ruining our marriage and told me straight in the face I am not deserving to have custody over my daughter.
Moreover she said, even in case of her death she would take care, that her tw mother and/or brother or even one of her best friends would get custody granted instead of me (yes, I am the real father of the child).
She backed that up from her lawyer and sounded quite confident that a tw court indeed would rule in her favor.
She reasoned that, because she earns much more money than me.
Me actually in case being alone here in Taiwan not being able to support my daughter financially (which sadly is true).
Me taking care about my daughter not that good (which is bullshit) and other reasons …

Moreover it looks like she wants to punish me wherever possible. She also intend to restrict me going to kindergarten to have a little play-time after class in the afternoon. Which I think is quite ridicolus.

She put her own anger towards me above the interest of the child. She says she needs to do that to protect her daughter, which again just make me speechless.
I have read many sad stories here on Forumosa and it looks like taiwanese courts are always in favor for tw mothers and I likely will lose such a case.
I just don’t know what to do. I find the situation very disturbing and my mind tell me to go to court and probably loosing, at least with some dignity.
On the other side I really think about my daughter and I am asking myself if I would obey I at least could have a door open towards my daughter.

I am scared if I dont obey my „ex-wife“ just will dissapear.
I am worried, that once she has the sole custody it will be more and more difficult to have „access“ to my daughter.
Having shared/joined custody probably doesn’t eliminate that problem, because tw courts seem not to care at all about us foreign parents (based on stories I read here too), but at least I would have such a document in hand, which just is a kind of more secure feeling (at least for me).

I also should mention that she offered me quite a nice financial package as a pay-out. I don’t care that much about that, but it honestly bothers me a lot, that yet again, Taiwanese people think, money can buy everything, even your own-blood related child.

32

I am sorry to hear this. You are in a very difficult situation because you have nothing in your favour, not even money.

You say that your wife is offering you a financial settlement in return for you granting her sole custody- is she asking you to sign a agreement to this effect ? This really disturbs me, on several levels, including that you are considering accepting it- but I should not judge you because I have fortunately never been in a financially weak situation. However unless she is going to pay you everything as a lump sum up front, then what will stop her cutting off the payments to you when she wants, at the same time as stopping you seeing your child ? You know that the courts will not assist you in any way.

A couple of months back you said that your wife agreed to joint custody, now she rejects that outright- well that shows how easily she can change, and you have also realised that she wants to make you suffer.

Sometimes in Taiwan even money does not talk, or reason, or logic or humanity. With my first son, who I have not seen for five years now, or had any telephone contact or even news and photos for a couple of years, I offered many times to make monthly payments as an incentive for my ex-wife to give me some contact- like the occasional phone call, but she has decided to cut me off entirely. Even her sister would not reply to me when I sent as SMS asking if my son and his mother is OK, like still alive and well- and it’s difficult to understand why anyone could have so little heart to at least give a brief reply. So that’s the kind of treatment you may expect from her family too. Since my ex-wife found out that my current family situation is good and happy, married and with two other children now, she appears to have made the conscience effort to totally cut me off.

I wish I could give you some words of comfort of positive advice but I can’t except: please don’t agree to anything that your wife proposes, because only half of any agreement you make with her will be valid and/or enforceable- that is your obligations to her.

33

to clarify :

We were clear before. Deal is/was APRC (which I have now),
but I took the custody thing for granted, even informed her about that,
but apparently she never cared until now - so we are back argueing.

Yes, money for my signature - just disgusting
I never considered to agree for money - did I write that somewhere ?
She was offering a lump-sum upfront

update:
“was”, because I already wrote her (had a sleepless night), I am not accepting and
I am insisting on joined/shared custody. So, “this” likely will go to court.

Call me silly, but I feel quite confident to make my point infront court,
but I will likely “loose” - but again, I have my dignity and I fought for my
parental right.

I even asked my “wife” if she is willing to document her outrageous
claims, so I am able to (maybe) show that my grown child and to my
surprise she agreed …
She in my opinion is totally …

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34

[quote=“MoTi”]to clarify :

We were clear before. Deal is/was APRC (which I have now),
but I took the custody thing for granted, even informed her about that,
but apparently she never cared until now - so we are back argueing.

Yes, money for my signature - just disgusting
I never considered to agree for money - did I write that somewhere ?
She was offering a lump-sum upfront

update:
“was”, because I already wrote her (had a sleepless night), I am not accepting and
I am insisting on joined/shared custody. So, “this” likely will go to court.

Call me silly, but I feel quite confident to make my point infront court,
but I will likely “loose” - but again, I have my dignity and I fought for my
parental right.

I even asked my “wife” if she is willing to document her outrageous
claims, so I am able to (maybe) show that my grown child and to my
surprise she agreed …
She in my opinion is totally …[/quote]

I am sorry MoTi, I thought that you were considering her financial offer as you did not say that you had rejected it. You have made that clear now.

Yes, you will lose in court, I am sorry to say. And a very possible situation is that your wife and her family will punish you for the loss of face and inconvenience of them having to go to court by making it even more difficult for you to see your child. The whole thing could leave you a broken person, it took me a long time to recover, and I actually reached the point where I considered whether I wanted to live any more. I do regret going to court because nothing good came from it for everyone.

I understand while you want to do this for your own dignity, but I hope that you can also mentally prepare yourself for the worst.

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35

Dear MoTi,

OK, getting a divorce through the court is not exactly easy here.

She will have to prove at least one of the following:

  1. That you screwed around on her.
  2. That you were violent or tried to kill her.
  3. That you maltreated her parents.
  4. That you suffer from a loathsome disease.
  5. That you are insane or on drugs.

There are a few more, however you can appeal, they do not grant court divorces here lightly.

If she has proof able of holding up in court of the above, you are screwed and you are better off signing. (Consult a lawyer on this.)

If not, say in court that you love her, and that you want the marriage to work, and the whole thing will fall to the ground. If it does not, appeal.

if I read the situation correctly, she is trying to bluster her way to a “consensual” divorce. She will pay you a little money and you will lose your daughter in return.

Refuse that, lean back and wait for the court summons - or a better offer. Apart from that, refrain from contact her, and if she tries to take contact, get a lawyer and rout it all through him.

36

I disagree. You need a very good cause for getting a divorce and sole custody here in Taiwan. I assume they do not have one, if not she would just have sued, as that would leave her better off. If the wife loses in court, there will not be a divorce unless they get it “amicably”. If so, they will have to work out something better for MoTi. If they do not, he can just refuse to sign, and that will be the end of it.

37

Yup, just refuse to divorce unless your got shared custody.

On the mom defense, she has valid reasons for not trusting you and your financial situation doesn’t help either.

If you were able to get a full time job and show a good face, you might earn her trust…

38

What apart from not earning enough money has the OP done?!?!?

That one spouse cannot provide for the other is not grounds for divorce, in the most cases it need not be grounds for a bad marriage.

Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

39

I disagree. You need a very good cause for getting a divorce and sole custody here in Taiwan. I assume they do not have one, if not she would just have sued, as that would leave her better off. If the wife loses in court, there will not be a divorce unless they get it “amicably”. If so, they will have to work out something better for MoTi. If they do not, he can just refuse to sign, and that will be the end of it.[/quote]

You are right about the divorce issue of course. But from what MoTi what he has said, it doesn’t look like his wife cares too much whether they divorce or not. In a couple of weeks she will take the child back to her family, and that’s it- defacto custody. Without any family here to support him or financial means, she is going to be calling all of the shots.

40

Divorced - me in progress moving-out.
Sofar still joined custody, but ex-wife taking “custody-matter” to court.

We both won’t have lawyers involved.
I guess our case could be a “newbie” for the judge (don’t think that’s common).