China Airlines

Malkie

C’mon… don’t get so hot under the collar…you have researched you facts…but still your understanding cannot go to the extent of Boeing engineers or Aeronautical engineers… my point being here is that even with all your facts and my “misinformation”… the facts still exist that

  1. Airbus has a potential weakness and has not flown long enough to make any kind of judgement on this but it implies it is could be potentially dangerous to fly… if there is an undiagnosed problem in the A300… then how can they be sure that this is not in the A330, A340… how can you eliminate something when you don’t know what it is

2)Arguements about forces and vectors on take off are interesting…but the fact is if an accident is to happen… it will happen most likely on take off and landing
Also these facts on the airplanes… they weren’t much help to the people who’s planes suffered mechnical failure. Sure it helps to improve the next generation… but how many unseen problems still exist … and how many will pop up in the future… like after the TWA crash when they advised to remove the central fuel tank… but had they ever thought about this problem happening before?.. maybe

  1. The airplane entire design, manufacture and flying is probably beyond anyone person’s understanding… therefore I would ask you the same… please don’t make assumptions on a couple of facts about the 777 or 737… if i don’t know… then you cerainly don’t either

Malkie and zhukov maybe providing us with some websites or some other references to back up your arguments might help a bit. Just my opinion…

Jeff
jeff@oriented.org

quote:
Originally posted by zhukov: if i don't know.. then you cerainly don't either

I’m sorry Zhukov, but you are making an ass out of yourself.

For those of you who wish to expore these topics further:

A fine treatment of all aspects of flight safety, and accident statistics by aircraft type:
http://airsafe.com/

To find out what really holds planes up (goes some way to explaining why lay people get so confused):
http://www.aa.washington.edu/faculty/eberhardt/lift.htm

Lay description of advances in aircraft design in recent years:
http://www.patprojects.org/dec98sca/boeing.htm

The books:
“Air Disaster” (Vol 1-4) by MacArthur Job
A “must read” for anybody interested in failure analysis and forensic engineering. The treatment is not highly technical and gives some insight into how accident analysis leads to improvements in engineering.

Zhukov, how much more nonsense must we endure? Engineers who design these systems try very hard to ensure their safety, and by and large their efforts pay off. Engineering practice improves all the time. Does this imply engineers working 30 years ago were acting irresponsibly if they did not understand everything yet let their planes fly? Surely not, success depends on balancing benefit (most aircraft designs appear to be sound), with risk (what might we have missed, or could improve given more time). This argument also extends to operation and maintainence. We don’t for example dismantle every plane after every trip to check if something might be wrong. Some economic balance is found.

Occasionally problems slip through but they are specific, not general. For example “The Airbus is dangerous” is not helpful or informative unless you have some evidence that the whole organization conspires to make dangerous planes, or you know all models crash excessively (yes, Airbus has flown far enough for the figures to be quite meaningful). Saying the A300 (might) have a problem with a tailplane does not mean all fly-by-wire aircraft should be grounded (the A320 and the B777 ?). The argument ‘Europeans (or was it French) don’t know how to make planes’, is likewise a bit of a stretch.

When something fails it tells engineers there is a problem that needs to be checked. Air crash investigators try to diagnose the problem and understanding is improved. The problem can hopefully be avoided in future.

Luckily most problems are found in design and test and by and large the public are not victims of a wicked sadistic test plan by the airlines. When a problem is found with one plane, other planes of the type or comparable design are checked or analysed to see if they could have the same problem.

However, building a conspiricy theory that Airbus or China Airlines are lax in their business activites needs some proof. Although there have been few examples of companies who purposely built dangerous planes, there are certainly examples of operators who did not maintain them correctly (for example Aloha Airlines after an incident with a 737-200 on 4/28/1988), this is usually shown by maintanence records.

It will certainly be interesting to see if China Airlines is responsible again for the recent crash… but it would be wiser not to speculate.