China Post : Judaism and Islam are Judeo-Christian beliefs

Discussion Open Forum
1

The China Post today has a very strange editorial, which is not unusual for those who ever read that crap they print on their editorial page, but today takes the cake.

One wonders who writes these editorials and if they are people with any real education. Whatever real education means, yes. I believe it is a Taiwanese local who writes them, and if true, today’s case is very sad indeed.

For he writes, in the second editorial today, titled “Terrorists voted into power?”, about the Middle East troubles with the PLO and Israel yada…yada…yada:

“We know nothing can be done to solve the Middle East feud between Israelis and Palestinains unless there is a meeting of minds between cousins who have outwardly different but FUNDAMENTALLY SIMILAR faiths.” (comment: OH REALLY?)

But here’s the kicker: immediately following the above sentence:

“Both Israelis and Arabs claim to descend from Abraham, while Islam and Judaism are JUDEO-CHRISTIAN beliefs.”

So according to the erudiate sages of the CHINA POST, Islam is a Judeo-Christian belief, …and even more strange, Judaism is also a “Judeo-Chritsian” belief system.

[comment: OH REALLY?] (Does he mean that Arabs and Jews believe Jesus was the son of God and the long-awaited Messiah and son of God? That will be BIG NEWS to both the imams of the Arab world and the chief rabbi of Israel.

One really has to wonder WHO writes such absurd crap in a daily newspaper in Taiwan. Don’t they ask anyone to check their facts first?

2

[quote=“Cola”]

[comment: OH REALLY?] (Does he mean that Arabs and Jews believe Jesus was the son of God and the long-awaited Messiah and son of God? That will be BIG NEWS to both the imams of the Arab world and the chief rabbi of Israel.

One really has to wonder WHO writes such absurd crap in a daily newspaper in Taiwan. Don’t they ask anyone to check their facts first?[/quote]

Hold your fire. It is easy.

Mohammed/Muslims think Jesus is a prophet of God, but not his son.
Jesus was an early Jew claiming to be the son of God. The early Jews did not follow him there and their clerics handed him over to the bad bad Romans, so they are still waiting for the Messiah.

Christianity is thus the extension of Jewism with accepting Jesus as Messiah. Torah of Jews and Old Testimony of Christians are virtually the same.

Mohammed accepted the old Testimony, but the new one only with a grain of salt as he doubts Jesus is the son of God, what is said in there.

Mohammed extended Christianity towards holding worldy state power.

Didn’t I post it in one of our threads before?

Bob Bla

3

[quote=“Cola”]The China Post today has a very strange editorial, which is not unusual for those who ever read that crap they print on their editorial page, but today takes the cake.

One wonders who writes these editorials and if they are people with any real education. Whatever real education means, yes. I believe it is a Taiwanese local who writes them, and if true, today’s case is very sad indeed.

For he writes, in the second editorial today, titled “Terrorists voted into power?”, about the Middle East troubles with the PLO and Israel yada…yada…yada:

“We know nothing can be done to solve the Middle East feud between Israelis and Palestinains unless there is a meeting of minds between cousins who have outwardly different but FUNDAMENTALLY SIMILAR faiths.” (comment: OH REALLY?)

But here’s the kicker: immediately following the above sentence:

“Both Israelis and Arabs claim to descend from Abraham, while Islam and Judaism are JUDEO-CHRISTIAN beliefs.”

So according to the erudiate sages of the China POST, Islam is a Judeo-Christian belief, …and even more strange, Judaism is also a “Judeo-Chritsian” belief system.

[comment: OH REALLY?] (Does he mean that Arabs and Jews believe Jesus was the son of God and the long-awaited Messiah and son of God? That will be BIG NEWS to both the imams of the Arab world and the chief rabbi of Israel.

One really has to wonder WHO writes such absurd crap in a daily newspaper in Taiwan. Don’t they ask anyone to check their facts first?[/quote]

Sorry Cola but you really need to brush up on your theology before you cry foul.

I mean no disrespect but your post reflects your dilettante knowledge of the topics at hand.

A little research never hurt anyone.

4

[quote=“shifty”][quote=“Cola”]The China Post today has a very strange editorial, which is not unusual for those who ever read that crap they print on their editorial page, but today takes the cake.

One wonders who writes these editorials and if they are people with any real education. Whatever real education means, yes. I believe it is a Taiwanese local who writes them, and if true, today’s case is very sad indeed.

For he writes, in the second editorial today, titled “Terrorists voted into power?”, about the Middle East troubles with the PLO and Israel yada…yada…yada:

“We know nothing can be done to solve the Middle East feud between Israelis and Palestinains unless there is a meeting of minds between cousins who have outwardly different but FUNDAMENTALLY SIMILAR faiths.” (comment: OH REALLY?)

But here’s the kicker: immediately following the above sentence:

“Both Israelis and Arabs claim to descend from Abraham, while Islam and Judaism are JUDEO-CHRISTIAN beliefs.”

So according to the erudiate sages of the China POST, Islam is a Judeo-Christian belief, …and even more strange, Judaism is also a “Judeo-Chritsian” belief system.

[comment: OH REALLY?] (Does he mean that Arabs and Jews believe Jesus was the son of God and the long-awaited Messiah and son of God? That will be BIG NEWS to both the imams of the Arab world and the chief rabbi of Israel.

One really has to wonder WHO writes such absurd crap in a daily newspaper in Taiwan. Don’t they ask anyone to check their facts first?[/quote]

Sorry Cola but you really need to brush up on your theology before you cry foul.

I mean no disrespect but your post reflects your dilettante knowledge of the topics at hand.

A little research never hurt anyone.[/quote]

Thanks, shifty, never claimed to be anything but a dilettante. But tell me, how is Islam a Judeo-Christian belief? And how is Judaism a Judeo-CHRISTIAN belief?

Inform me. I am all ears.

It is correct to say that Christians and Jews share a Judeo-Christian culture, but it is wrong to say that Jews have a Judeo-Christian belief, because they do not. They do not believe in the Christ figure at all. And Moslems believe that Jesus existed but they do not worship him or follow his teachings such as turn the other cheek, do they? Or do unto others BLAM! as you would have them do unto you BLAM! CARTOOMS UNITE!

tell me what i need to brush up on ,. would love to hear.

5

Judaism is a Judeo-Christian belief by the nature of the term. Judaism is the “Judeo-” part of the term “Judeo-Christian”.

I have no argument that Islam is not a Judeo-Christian faith. I guess that the (misinformed) author of the article thought: "All three believe in one God, and all three trace their heritage through one man (if you go back far enough) (ergo: they must be the same).

6

[quote=“cola”]Thanks, shifty, never claimed to be anything but a dilettante. But tell me, how is Islam a Judeo-Christian belief? And how is Judaism a Judeo-CHRISTIAN belief?

Inform me. I am all ears.

It is correct to say that Christians and Jews share a Judeo-Christian culture, but it is wrong to say that Jews have a Judeo-Christian belief, because they do not. They do not believe in the Christ figure at all. And Moslems believe that Jesus existed but they do not worship him or follow his teachings such as turn the other cheek, do they? Or do unto others BLAM! as you would have them do unto you BLAM! CARTOOMS UNITE!

tell me how I am wrong. would love to hear.[/quote]

As I understand it.

The Judeo part of Judeo-Christian refers to Judaism. The Christian religion and teachings (not the same thing) basically took Judaism and updated it. Of course, not all chose to follow the updated teachings.

Islam, which has a common root ancestor in Abraham, then came along and further updated it. Again, not all chose to follow the updated teachings.

Judaism, Christianity and Islam all have their basis in the Old Testament. The New Testament, is an update for the times on the Old. The Koran is a further update, based on both the Old and the New.

Judeo-Christian, as a term, possibly comes about because, if there wasn’t Christian support for Judaism, Israel probably wouldn’t exist. (But that’s just a guess). But it’s a term I’ve only read in post WW2 writings. Nothing I’ve seen, that was written prior to then, mentions Judeo-Christian. It’s either Judeo or Christian.

Muslims respect Jesus as a prophet, in much the same way that Christians respect Moses as a prophet. They just don’t believe he’s the son of God/final prophet. True they don’t worship him, but how many Christians pray to Moses?

And turn the other cheek. Well, it’s easily argued that Christians don’t practice that. Just look at the Crusades, the Spanish conquistadors, Christian aid orgs that don’t provide aid to non-Christians, the use of the death penalty in the US, the Vatican turning a blind eye to Nazi atrocities, the recruitment of Nazi war criminal into the intelligence services of the west post WW2, etc.

You could mount a conceivable argument that Muslims do follow the do unto others rule. The most recent intifada in Palestine/Israel was originally Palestinian youths throwing rocks in protest. The response was bullets. The response to bullets was suicide bombings. The response to that was helicopter gunships. Et al. Both sides have blood on their hands, and neither side is 100% right, the same as neither is 100% wrong.

I’ve been a pacifist all my life. My motto is “Ahimsa Paramo Dharma” which means “Non-violence is the highest virtue”. I don’t agree with violence on any side, under any circumstances. Yet all religions engage in it.

7

For anyone who’s confused here, consider reading some brief overviews like this:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judeo-Christian
I know it’s not the best, but I don’t have time to dig for a better one…

The writer should have called them both Abrahamic religions, not Judeo-Christian; the term Judeo-Christian-Islamic is more properly inclusive. The emphasis is on what shared traits and heritage they have, whereas Cola is focusing on the differences between them, which are important ones.

8

The strongest main root that is left between them is Moses. Afterthat, it’s perhaps a duke-out between Jesus & Abraham for 2nd PLACE. Loser has a match next week with Noah for 3rd PLACE… :grandpa:

9

[quote=“Dragonbones”]For anyone who’s confused here, consider reading some brief overviews like this:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judeo-Christian
I know it’s not the best, but I don’t have time to dig for a better one…

The writer should have called them both Abrahamic religions, not Judeo-Christian; the term Judeo-Christian-Islamic is more properly inclusive. The emphasis is on what shared traits and heritage they have, whereas Cola is focusing on the differences between them, which are important ones.[/quote]

Thank you, Dragonbones. See that, Shifty?

Above, a poster wrote : “The Judeo part of Judeo-Christian refers to Judaism. The Christian religion and teachings (not the same thing) basically took Judaism and updated it. Of course, not all chose to follow the updated teachings.”

maybe. but as i see it, Christianity is a completely different religion from Judaism, although they share the same OLD Testament, they do not share the same NEW TESTAMENT. Jews believe in a god called Yawyeh who has no sons and no virgin birth, and some of their beliefs are very unChristian, such as AN EYE FOR AN EYE and things like that. They had a very angry tribal god ruling them. But the Ten Commandments were cool.

Christiantiy believes God has a son by virgin birth and that his son of God is really God Himself, so that Jesus replaces the jewish concept of Yawyeh and becomes Lord himself. There is NOTHIGn Judeo about that! That is completely new and different.

What Christiantiya nd Jduaism seem to share at times of heartfelt brotherhood is a Judeo-Christian committment to fair play and ethics and humanism and social betterment. But they are two different, distinct, and in the end OPPOSED religions, as is the third in this Middle Easy goulash, ISLAM, which refutes both Jews and Christians, and guess what, they are out to kill us all!

As if the China Post editorial even matters. …

Wikpedia pretty much sums it up:

"Judeo-Christian (or Judaeo-Christian) is a term used to describe the body of concepts and values which are thought to be held in COMMON by Judaism and Christianity, and typically considered a fundamental basis for Western LEGAL codes and MORAL values [BUT NOT RELIGIOUS BELIEFS]

10

I was the poster who wrote that. I also said.

Now, that is just a guess. And I think it’s a plausible guess. The Nazi’s were nominally Christian, after all.

But I agree, in part. Sure, Christianity is very different from Judaism. As is Islam. As I said, Christianity and the New Testament is an update, for the times, of the Old Testament.

True, there’s nothing Judeo about that at all. The New Testament is an update, a rewrite, call it what you will. Times change, and the means of the message therefore must change. The Koran is thus the 3rd book in the story. Episode 3 if it were Star Wars.

Islam doesn’t refute Judaism and Christianity. THey are not out to kill at all. It’s only the very small minority of fanatics who want that. In the same way, that a small minority of fanatic Christians believe that the west should nuke the ME. You don’t have to go far back in time to discover that the same minority favored segregation of blacks and whites.

11

So why, in our “modern age” has there been no more prophets? You would think that somebody else would come around by now who had the final final word. I guess we can exclude christians from this arguement, but surely the muslims and jews are waiting for some kind of final word?

Religions seem so antiquitated. What are the plans for the future for any of them? Die and go to heaven? Is that it?

I want progress, Dogammit!

12

Strange: christians and jews became capitalized but muslims did not. I wrote those three words in lower case. Just an observation.

13

It’s not really an accurate way to use the term. The term ‘Judeo-Christian’ refers to beliefs which have emerged in the post-Christian era, which are based on the Jewish and Christian religious traditions.

By definition, Judaism cannot derive from a belief which postdated it.

14

Cola, all three religions do belong together:

Jewism + “Jesus is Messiah” = Christianity

Christianity + worldly power = Islam

God is all the same.

Wanne have it more easy? Um… wait maybe I can draw something.

Bob Sinalco

15

Oh, but there have been. What about Oprah? And you know the occasional nutjob who comes along and prophesies doomsday? Those are “prophets”.

Many splinter religions have also been founded by prophets like Joseph Smith. [quote]Over the last 200 years a number of people have claimed to be religious prophets with special spiritual authority from God. These include Charles Taze Russell (Jehovah

16

[quote=“cfimages”][quote=“cola”]Thanks, shifty, never claimed to be anything but a dilettante. But tell me, how is Islam a Judeo-Christian belief? And how is Judaism a Judeo-CHRISTIAN belief?

Inform me. I am all ears.

It is correct to say that Christians and Jews share a Judeo-Christian culture, but it is wrong to say that Jews have a Judeo-Christian belief, because they do not. They do not believe in the Christ figure at all. And Moslems believe that Jesus existed but they do not worship him or follow his teachings such as turn the other cheek, do they? Or do unto others BLAM! as you would have them do unto you BLAM! CARTOOMS UNITE!

tell me how I am wrong. would love to hear.[/quote]

As I understand it.

The Judeo part of Judeo-Christian refers to Judaism. The Christian religion and teachings (not the same thing) basically took Judaism and updated it. Of course, not all chose to follow the updated teachings.

Islam, which has a common root ancestor in Abraham, then came along and further updated it. Again, not all chose to follow the updated teachings.

Judaism, Christianity and Islam all have their basis in the Old Testament. The New Testament, is an update for the times on the Old. The Koran is a further update, based on both the Old and the New.

Judeo-Christian, as a term, possibly comes about because, if there wasn’t Christian support for Judaism, Israel probably wouldn’t exist. (But that’s just a guess). But it’s a term I’ve only read in post WW2 writings. Nothing I’ve seen, that was written prior to then, mentions Judeo-Christian. It’s either Judeo or Christian.

Muslims respect Jesus as a prophet, in much the same way that Christians respect Moses as a prophet. They just don’t believe he’s the son of God/final prophet. True they don’t worship him, but how many Christians pray to Moses?

And turn the other cheek. Well, it’s easily argued that Christians don’t practice that. Just look at the Crusades, the Spanish conquistadors, Christian aid orgs that don’t provide aid to non-Christians, the use of the death penalty in the US, the Vatican turning a blind eye to Nazi atrocities, the recruitment of Nazi war criminal into the intelligence services of the west post WW2, etc.

You could mount a conceivable argument that Muslims do follow the do unto others rule. The most recent intifada in Palestine/Israel was originally Palestinian youths throwing rocks in protest. The response was bullets. The response to bullets was suicide bombings. The response to that was helicopter gunships. Et al. Both sides have blood on their hands, and neither side is 100% right, the same as neither is 100% wrong.

I’ve been a pacifist all my life. My motto is “Ahimsa Paramo Dharma” which means “Non-violence is the highest virtue”. I don’t agree with violence on any side, under any circumstances. Yet all religions engage in it.[/quote]

Great points one all.

Most modern religious scholars believe that the term "Judeo Christian’ is dismissive of Islam and have opted for Judeo-Christian-Islamic’ the original term is ethnocentric; much the way B.C. and A.D. were; (as well all know B.C. has been modified to B.C.E.-before the common era)

The common roots of the tree and where the various saplings veered off have been wonderfully explained in previous threads.

While there is no denying that the newspaper article is less than academically current, the foundations of the author

17

It’s not really an accurate way to use the term. The term ‘Judeo-Christian’ refers to beliefs which have emerged in the post-Christian era, which are based on the Jewish and Christian religious traditions.

By definition, Judaism cannot derive from a belief which postdated it.[/quote]

The term in question is “Judeo-Christian”. The term “Judeo-Christian” comes from the names of the two religious traditions that formed the western ethic.

Saying that I said that Judaism comes from “Judeo-Christian” is illogical. A smattering of common sense is what might be required here.

18

Sorry if my last post was a little harsh. The point of this thread seems to be people writing things without knowing what they are talking about, whether intentionally, by being in over their heads, or just by simply not understanding. None of us is perfect. None of us knows everything. We need, therefore, to think about what we read and write.

On another note, if you wanted to be inclusive, you would need to make the term “Judeo-Christian-Islamic-Confucian”. On the other hand, one could use the inclusive terms that we already have (“Ethics” (n.) or “Ethical” (adj.)).

19

Are Moses and Mohomud the same person?

20

It’s not really an accurate way to use the term. The term ‘Judeo-Christian’ refers to beliefs which have emerged in the post-Christian era, which are based on the Jewish and Christian religious traditions.

By definition, Judaism cannot derive from a belief which postdated it.[/quote]

Bingo!