China to take over Kenya's ports over unpaid debts


What does this even mean?


I though you spoke English Andrew


Are you really going to ironically use the “children are starving in africa” fallacy to save some chinese face?


Maybe you could give them some cake :smiley:

If you look at the recent south Sudan famine which - by pure coincidence - fits exactly on top of oil and associated war you can see China is in there, one of the slices in the cake. Part of the problem. Stress being on ‘part’


What they need is real governance.

Yes, I know about the Sudan famine, but whats your point?


My point:

pots kettles black etc


Does another bad thing change the impact or truth of another?


No it doesn’t.

But, if people have expectations about moral standards for others they should be able to also follow comparable moral standards themselves.


In what way did others not hold moral standards for themselves they held for others?


So its only a problem when China fucks up Africa.



Yemen is a good example of a war being funded by oil demand indirectly. The Saudis buy the weapons from the US and the UK to bomb the hell out of Yemen. The arms suppliers are happy to take the money.
Sudan…I don’t know anything about that one.


Its oil as well


No, where did anyone say that?

There’s a difference in saying china is not the worst offender in fucking up Africa to there are more factors to different situations to African nations.

It is not solely Chinese firms in the congo, and there’s a demand by the west/global for electronics with resources in the congo. Congo problem isn’t new, it’s been going on for a long time before the China.

But there is a lack of transparency in how China is handling “business” in African in the last decade. And a lack of willingness to at least incentivize some stable governance in regions they’re going to giving out these loans they can’t pay back to make matters worse.


I havent defended anything about what China is doing in Africa. I just pointed out that it is not the worst offender.

It reminds me of a passage, I think it was in an Orwell novel, where a gentleman shows up at the gentlemanly club, and on the first day kicks a server. All the other gentlemen are appalled: something along the lines of 'you can’t kick the help! You have to be here at least a week before you can do that!


For almost everything, there is usually something worse. It feels like someone kicked the help and try to lessen it because the other guy owns slaves for help.



Yes, absolutely. Oh hey, I found this article from 2011 that might have been prescient…or not…at all.

Now I can get back to you later on today, as I have a Sudanese fellow coming to my house, helping him get a resume going for a custodial job. He used to work in the oil industry in Sudan, IT guy. I can ask him what he thinks of Chinese influence in his country and then ask him why he relocated his entire family to upstate New York, aside from you know all the stability China was set to bring.

Once again, yay China. “F8ck it til it breaks” seems to be their Foreign Policy motto.


What exactly is/was the analogous motto of other global political powers? bomb it till it breaks? starve them till they are all gone becasue they are too lazy to work anyway and arent actually human becasue they are black till it breaks? Why is it suddenly news that a global power is a bully?


It’s not. You saying you’re OK with this is. The cost of their investments is death and starvation and mass fleeing.


I didnt say that. What I said was that China is not the worst offender


What? Historically?

Present day, they sure seem to be. Every investment they touch turns the earth to salt.
Case in point: